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i have found a place in the rack and would like to get inspired Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #61
pair of Tonelux TX5C?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #62
Gear Maniac
 
B Elgin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum View Post
many thanks for your inputs, which I (as always) appreciate very much.
i was about to ask you about the more expensive foote devices, p4s-me, mtb2.
can anyone compare the p4s-me to the vertigo?
i wonder a bit if an " noble vca " is what kicks me, especially since the vsc-2 is also a bit over budget.
a friend of mine has a vsc-2, i can try it in the next weeks.
The P4S ME is somehow close to a vari-mu. It has the precision, parameters and quick reaction you'd expect from a VCA design but the overall dynamic behavior and even circuit design is similar to a classic variable mu design. It's smooth and elegant but not too slow or greasy.

The boxtone is awesome - to be specific I'm referring to the ME configuration I have with FCS opamps and his custom in/out transformers. The output transformers are Litz wire wound and just recently produced. Some earlier versions I believe had SL2520 opamps and Cinemag or Carnhills, or FCS opamps and different transformers. Roger said he designed these latest transformers specifically to pair well with his opamps, and the complete package result is very nice. I can't separate the opamp sound from the transformer sound of course, but the tone is rich and refined, polishing harshness away and handling sibiliance and upper mids especially well. To be honest I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "noble", but

The RMS mode and very fine low ratio controls are standout features here. Besides the firm ("muscular" is a funny but probably appropriate description) release, the image is also nicely enhanced - it makes things sound larger and more expansive. The scene gets more width and stays very stable and open even under deep gain reduction. The makeup gain with feedback mode can really add a strong helping of glue but in feedforward mode with modest input level, the color can be subtle enough to fit about anything. I haven't heard the super clean single-ended mode that bypasses transformers but I don't miss this option. The bottom end extension is really great and music with heavy sub content passes through without compromise. In fact the deep lows are impressively clear and solid sounding.

I run my whole chain in MS too with the side signal boosted a bit before DAC - never had any problems with this. If you want to have independant control over the 2 channels you'd need the P4S DMS or Excalibur (unbelievable beast with many options but breaks your budget).

With your compressor selection already so versatile and capable you may get better use out of the MTB line. His class A line amp and FCS transformers should probably give you similar box tone to the P4S and you'd have variations for more vintage or bolder colors. The clipper should be pretty unique too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum
so you think that from a sound point of view the 19" version is clearly to be preferred because of the output stage?
have you been able to listen to the 500 modules Bettermaker C502V and wes-audio Dione compared to tk-audio?
in the sound examples i know from tk, i always found it very musical, but also a bit rounder/softer than other ssl clones.
I actually haven't used those 500 modules so can't comment. I do think the 19" version is the way to go since it's less crowded and yes, the output stage can give a useful color even without compression. It can get slightly noisy with high makeup gain in my experience but usually this isn't an issue. Definitely demo a unit if you find the chance.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #63
The P4S ME it's a desert island compressor muscular with elegant and Hi fi image doesn't change the program as the pollack that I order anyway love to had those manipulating tools same as the MA, but I had to admit that some programs had to be change and others don't, so had neutral tools and manipulated tools it's a must.

I use the SB to get that api flavor or neve and the P4S ME do the rest better than the api 2500 that I used to had an amazing tool, as well the P3 but the amplitude that the Cinemags give you as well the Jensen on the pollack are huge to any 500 series module...

Start getting friends with the BML lately even after the last octave drop.

Take a good vacation with the $$$$ good for the soul
Old 3 weeks ago
  #64
Lives for gear
 
teebaum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVFM View Post
The P4S ME it's a desert island compressor muscular with elegant and Hi fi image doesn't change the program as the pollack that I order anyway love to had those manipulating tools same as the MA, but I had to admit that some programs had to be change and others don't, so had neutral tools and manipulated tools it's a must.

I use the SB to get that api flavor or neve and the P4S ME do the rest better than the api 2500 that I used to had an amazing tool, as well the P3 but the amplitude that the Cinemags give you as well the Jensen on the pollack are huge to any 500 series module...

Start getting friends with the BML lately even after the last octave drop.

Take a good vacation with the $$$$ good for the soul
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Elgin View Post
The P4S ME is somehow close to a vari-mu. It has the precision, parameters and quick reaction you'd expect from a VCA design but the overall dynamic behavior and even circuit design is similar to a classic variable mu design. It's smooth and elegant but not too slow or greasy.

The boxtone is awesome - to be specific I'm referring to the ME configuration I have with FCS opamps and his custom in/out transformers. The output transformers are Litz wire wound and just recently produced. Some earlier versions I believe had SL2520 opamps and Cinemag or Carnhills, or FCS opamps and different transformers. Roger said he designed these latest transformers specifically to pair well with his opamps, and the complete package result is very nice. I can't separate the opamp sound from the transformer sound of course, but the tone is rich and refined, polishing harshness away and handling sibiliance and upper mids especially well.

the p4s-me must be a really good compressor, i also got files to listen to in the meantime - but i don't need a main-compressor, no elegant, hifi, almost vari-mu-vca, i'm already well covered in these areas.

i will test the was-audio dione, the api 2500 and a vertigo vsc-2 in my chain for a while.
at the moment i have a dione in my chain (it was the first one that arrived) and i'm a little astonished how well it does - maybe because it's solidstate without transformer and fits in quite simply
Old 3 weeks ago
  #65
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum View Post
the p4s-me must be a really good compressor, i also got files to listen to in the meantime - but i don't need a main-compressor, no elegant, hifi, almost vari-mu-vca, i'm already well covered in these areas.
P4S-ME owner here. I also have a Varis Blueface and Pollock like yourself. I agree that the P4S is an excellent compressor but probably not what you are after. I think you have those areas covered. I'm interested to know what you come up with. I am also looking for an alternative to my current collection.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #66
Gear Maniac
 
B Elgin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum
the p4s-me must be a really good compressor, i also got files to listen to in the meantime - but i don't need a main-compressor, no elegant, hifi, almost vari-mu-vca, i'm already well covered in these areas.

i will test the was-audio dione, the api 2500 and a vertigo vsc-2 in my chain for a while.
at the moment i have a dione in my chain (it was the first one that arrived) and i'm a little astonished how well it does - maybe because it's solidstate without transformer and fits in quite simply
If it wasn't clear in my post that's what I was suggesting - probably the MTB or clip/sat could be a useful fit but the P4 is likely redundant in some ways. Which ratio/knee did you find useful on the Dione for mastering? With SSL types I always liked the grab with 4:1 or higher ratio and corresponding knees when mixing but it's usually too powerful a ratio in mastering. The TKAudio has some extra soft knees at the low ratios - how is the 1.5:1 on the Dione? That's great that it fits for you. Is the THD bringing anything good? Curious to hear your thoughts when the API and Vertigo come in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomaster View Post
P4S-ME owner here. I also have a Varis Blueface and Pollock like yourself. I agree that the P4S is an excellent compressor but probably not what you are after. I think you have those areas covered. I'm interested to know what you come up with. I am also looking for an alternative to my current collection.
I don't want to veer off topic here but I also own the Varis blueface and P4S ME - Pollock is perhaps the only other compressor that interests me at the moment for its unique and non-traditional approach (and it looks so damn good). How does it work alongside the HCL and FCS boxes? What do you miss from these three that warrants looking for alternatives?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #67
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Elgin View Post
I don't want to veer off topic here but I also own the Varis blueface and P4S ME - Pollock is perhaps the only other compressor that interests me at the moment for its unique and non-traditional approach (and it looks so damn good). How does it work alongside the HCL and FCS boxes? What do you miss from these three that warrants looking for alternatives?
The Poillock is unique and unlike any other compressor, I've used. Intelligent, musical and it's various modes means it is very flexible. Smooth mode acts as a kind of 'leveller' but manages not to kill any transients when used in small doses. Very musical and interacts with the groove. The aggressive mode is great for taming sharp spikes. Also great at taming high frequencies. Turning the wet 100% means you can dial in the required amount quickly and then dial back to taste. The unit keeps out of the way when not needed. The Pollock seems to work nicely even on mixes that don't need any compression. The boxtone is also fairly linear with just a subtle enhancement so works with most genres. With the HCL, FCS P4S and Pollock I feel that I am missing something very clean, quick, and transparent. Possibly something without tubes and transformers.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #68
Gear Maniac
 
B Elgin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomaster View Post
The Poillock is unique and unlike any other compressor, I've used. Intelligent, musical and it's various modes means it is very flexible. Smooth mode acts as a kind of 'leveller' but manages not to kill any transients when used in small doses. Very musical and interacts with the groove. The aggressive mode is great for taming sharp spikes. Also great at taming high frequencies. Turning the wet 100% means you can dial in the required amount quickly and then dial back to taste. The unit keeps out of the way when not needed. The Pollock seems to work nicely even on mixes that don't need any compression. The boxtone is also fairly linear with just a subtle enhancement so works with most genres. With the HCL, FCS P4S and Pollock I feel that I am missing something very clean, quick, and transparent. Possibly something without tubes and transformers.
Thanks. I think the Pollock with it's invisible timings and gain reduction limiting feature would be a blast to work with and could stack with other compression too. I don't have any dynamics tools to tame highs either and often miss this. The Masalec HF Limiter never felt worth adding for some reason. Are you ever combining compressors?

For clean, quick, and transparent you could try BC2ME or a Dione. Maybe the GML 2030? Otherwise I really like Leapwing DynOne, Weiss DS-1, or TDR Kotelnikov GE for very fast precise control ITB.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #69
Gear Maniac
 
B Elgin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVFM View Post
I use the SB to get that api flavor or neve and the P4S ME do the rest better than the api 2500 that I used to had an amazing tool, as well the P3 but the amplitude that the Cinemags give you as well the Jensen on the pollack are huge to any 500 series module...

Start getting friends with the BML lately even after the last octave drop.

Take a good vacation with the $$$$ good for the soul
I've got the SB too. I didn't suggest that here since recall could be an issue. The air boost and vintage filter surprised me, and the channel alignment is extremely precise. I honestly rarely use it for mastering (sits permanently on 2bus for mixing projects) except a few times on some hard rock ITB stuff that needed a heavy attitude adjustment. It's a crazy clever piece of equipment though and great value. I see the Foote MTB boxes as kind of a level up on the concept and more suited for mastering, though they're in a totally different price range.

Do you think the BML has much advantage over light AD clipping and ITB limiters? And you mean there's some roll-off in the low subs?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #70
Lives for gear
 
teebaum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Elgin View Post
If it wasn't clear in my post that's what I was suggesting - probably the MTB or clip/sat could be a useful fit but the P4 is likely redundant in some ways. Which ratio/knee did you find useful on the Dione for mastering? With SSL types I always liked the grab with 4:1 or higher ratio and corresponding knees when mixing but it's usually too powerful a ratio in mastering. The TKAudio has some extra soft knees at the low ratios - how is the 1.5:1 on the Dione? That's great that it fits for you. Is the THD bringing anything good? Curious to hear your thoughts when the API and Vertigo come in.

?
the dione also has different knees depending on the ratio, so you can find different options with the mix portion and the ration between soft following and tight pressing.
in addition there are two settings with tilts in the sidechain, a bit a la api
thd I found so far not so thrilling (for mastering).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #71
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Elgin View Post
Are you ever combining compressors?

For clean, quick, and transparent you could try BC2ME or a Dione. Maybe the GML 2030? Otherwise I really like Leapwing DynOne, Weiss DS-1, or TDR Kotelnikov GE for very fast precise control ITB.
Rarely due to the combined box tone is often too much. This is partly why I’m on the hunt for something a bit cleaner. Then pairing could be more of an option. I already have those ITB options. All excellent. I need to find a hardware alternative to work within my analog chain.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Elgin View Post
I've got the SB too. I didn't suggest that here since recall could be an issue. The air boost and vintage filter surprised me, and the channel alignment is extremely precise. I honestly rarely use it for mastering (sits permanently on 2bus for mixing projects) except a few times on some hard rock ITB stuff that needed a heavy attitude adjustment. It's a crazy clever piece of equipment though and great value. I see the Foote MTB boxes as kind of a level up on the concept and more suited for mastering, though they're in a totally different price range.

Do you think the BML has much advantage over light AD clipping and ITB limiters? And you mean there's some roll-off in the low subs?
The SB perfect to sit at the output of your mix rig, no doubt but I use the pres and sub to retouch at the end of the chain before the BML I can recall the unit easy since has recallable detented controls

I was one of the 4th guys waiting for the MTB1 but I pulled the plug since Roger had some family issues and I was on the need of some colour for a project that was sterile and I spoke with Brad and for the price of the MTB1, I bought the SB and the BML

The BML I start with the Beta ver, and the latest soft was an improvement
the clip mode and the M/S is the box, I realize that I lost some bottom end on the subs but what it does it's tie the lows cleaning the mud, depends with what converter is use with the Hilo I had to add some other limiter ITB with the Pure2 print almost perfect since has that control clipping inside, with the Hedd 192 sound awesome for Rock

In the ITB works great easy to recall and I combined sometimes with the Elephant, Fab proL or the DMG Limitless depends the situation I had to fit.

Last edited by JVFM; 3 weeks ago at 06:35 AM.. Reason: adding info
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