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How does the mastering with analog outboard workflow actually work? Monitor Controllers
Old 11th November 2018
  #1
Gear Head
 

How does the mastering with analog outboard workflow actually work?

I am new to he whole using outboard analog hardware to master workflow,and will be trying it out in a few weeks when my analog unit arrives.I have a dangerous convert ad+ and a convert da.(each unit only has 2 channels of a\d and d\a).........is this enough channels to roundtrip a mix while monitoring it???....or do I have my theory wrong of how it works.....My Theory:I take the bounced stereo audio file and set its output to 1 and 2 (the only outputs I have which is my 2 channel dangerous d\a)2.Then I take the xlr's that are going into my monitors and put them into my input of my analog hardware when I come out of my analog chain I will end up going back into my a\d converter lastly where I have armed a new audio track in protools to record the newly mastered audio back to....which means I still dont have anything going into my monitors to actually hear the results....in this scenario I would need 2 more channels of d\a to do the roundtrip and still monitor it.correct?Or is my theory of how this works wrong?
Old 11th November 2018
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
DBarbarulo's Avatar
yes, you need a dedicated dac for monitoring and another for processing.
Old 11th November 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
Yes, you need another 2 channels of D/A in order to monitor.
Old 11th November 2018
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Silvertone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-dawg View Post
I am new to he whole using outboard analog hardware to master workflow,and will be trying it out in a few weeks when my analog unit arrives.I have a dangerous convert ad+ and a convert da.(each unit only has 2 channels of a\d and d\a).........is this enough channels to roundtrip a mix while monitoring it???....or do I have my theory wrong of how it works.....My Theory:I take the bounced stereo audio file and set its output to 1 and 2 (the only outputs I have which is my 2 channel dangerous d\a)2.Then I take the xlr's that are going into my monitors and put them into my input of my analog hardware when I come out of my analog chain I will end up going back into my a\d converter lastly where I have armed a new audio track in protools to record the newly mastered audio back to....which means I still dont have anything going into my monitors to actually hear the results....in this scenario I would need 2 more channels of d\a to do the roundtrip and still monitor it.correct?Or is my theory of how this works wrong?
Sorry to have to tell you that you would need two more channels of D/A.

I use a Cranesong HEDD for my “round trip” D/A A/D conversion to the analog world and back again but I use the Dangerous Master which has its own built in D/A converters to monitor the signal path.
Old 11th November 2018
  #5
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
Sorry to have to tell you that you would need two more channels of D/A.

I use a Cranesong HEDD for my “round trip” D/A A/D conversion to the analog world and back again but I use the Dangerous Master which has its own built in D/A converters to monitor the signal path.
Thank you guys for all of the fast and informative responses!I knew I wasn't tripping....lol....I just ordered a dangerous monitor controller d box....It has it's own d\a converter in it....Would it be possible to use those 2 channels of d\a to achieve the round trip....where would I put it in the signal chain and which d\a unit would be the best choice to use to monitor and which to process.Or maybe I would have to use the convert because my mac sees it as an usb interface....I dont think the d box can do that...
Old 11th November 2018
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Verified Member
you don't 'need' additional d/a converters: it's convenient to have them but you could also split the mastering gear's outputs and use a passive volume controller for sending the exact same signal to your speakers...
Old 11th November 2018
  #7
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Silvertone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-dawg View Post
Thank you guys for all of the fast and informative responses!I knew I wasn't tripping....lol....I just ordered a dangerous monitor controller d box....It has it's own d\a converter in it....Would it be possible to use those 2 channels of d\a to achieve the round trip....where would I put it in the signal chain and which d\a unit would be the best choice to use to monitor and which to process.Or maybe I would have to use the convert because my mac sees it as an usb interface....I dont think the d box can do that...
My advice would be to use the monitor to monitor use the dedicated D/A and A/D for your round trip. Chis Muth would tell you the same thing... lol

Here’s Chris setting up my system for me. It’s way easier when guys like this take care of everything for you. lol
Attached Thumbnails
How does the mastering with analog outboard workflow actually work?-cba083f1-2416-48f5-aa7c-c97f6214833f.jpeg  
Old 11th November 2018
  #8
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
My advice would be to use the monitor to monitor use the dedicated D/A and A/D for your round trip. Chis Muth would tell you the same thing... lol

Here’s Chris setting up my system for me. It’s way easier when guys like this take care of everything for you. lol
Wow!Thats a nice rig!What you say makes logical sense...so even if I have the d box monitor controller,I will still need another 2 channels of d\a...???If so I'm sending the dangeour unit back for the 8 channel version as it's only $1000.00 more dollars for 6 more channels.
Old 11th November 2018
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Giuseppe Zaccaria's Avatar
 

absolutely, you need another 2 channels of DA in order to monitor the return from your DAW after print.
but if you get a dsp speaker system which has integrated DAC for monitoring you colud have just a digital out to go in there, like:
Guzauski-Swist GS3a
Suter-Ohlhorst modular
Kii Three
Dutch&Dutch 8C
and others...
its just another option to have the benefit of dsp within system and to save money for the monitoring DAC
Old 11th November 2018
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuseppe Zaccaria View Post
absolutely, you need another 2 channels of DA in order to monitor the return from your DAW after print.
but if you get a dsp speaker system which has integrated DAC for monitoring you colud have just a digital out to go in there, like:
Guzauski-Swist GS3a
Suter-Ohlhorst modular
Kii Three
Dutch&Dutch 8C
and others...
its just another option to have the benefit of dsp within system and to save money for the monitoring DAC
Wow!Never heard of this before!Thanks going to price check them right now!
Old 11th November 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Miles Flint's Avatar
 

did you ever consider a multichannel ADDA..? I like to have one box only, for the roundtrip (chain) and for monitoring...
Old 11th November 2018
  #12
Can't you monitor from the A/D if you send the converted A/D signal to your computer digitally via AES or SPDIF?
Old 11th November 2018
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles Flint View Post
did you ever consider a multichannel ADDA..? I like to have one box only, for the roundtrip (chain) and for monitoring...
I totally agree!Well for my a\d,I only need 2 channels because in hiphop its all synth and digital sounds which can be done a track at a time...but if I had to track live bands I would definetely rather have a 1 box multichannel unit.Now as for d\a I'm startin to think the one box with multiple d\a channels is best.I paid 2500 for the 2 channels of dangerous d\a and for an extra 1000 will get me 6 more channels....Im kinda salty at my sweetwater rep for not catching this as Ive been explaining to him exactly what Im tying to do with an analog outboard mastering workflow.Even though 8 channels of d\a is 4 channels of overkill for me,it still makes the best financial sense right now.
Old 11th November 2018
  #14
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollmottle View Post
Can't you monitor from the A/D if you send the converted A/D signal to your computer digitally via AES or SPDIF?
Hmmmmmm.....I don't know...can I????Anyone??The dangerous convert + does have AES outputs....I was wondering what exactly they were for...
Old 11th November 2018
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-dawg View Post
Hmmmmmm.....I don't know...can I????Anyone??The dangerous convert + does have AES outputs....I was wondering what exactly they were for...
It’s what I do.
UA Apollo out to analog chain. Captured by A/D of UA2192 sent back to Apollo via SPDIF. D/A output of UA2192 sent into monitor controller.
Old 11th November 2018
  #16
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollmottle View Post
It’s what I do.
UA Apollo out to analog chain. Captured by A/D of UA2192 sent back to Apollo via SPDIF. D/A output of UA2192 sent into monitor controller.
Wow!Please forgive me if I'm understanding this wrong,because your scenario has an interface involved which acts as your 2 extra channels of d\a as my scenario only has 2 channels of d\a....my ad\da are standalone units along with a danerous d box monitor controller involved....but if I were to apply that same routing to my setup (correct me if Im wrong) I would be able to send my mix out of my d\a into my analog chain,back into my a\d.......heck I'm lost on where the AES would come in and allow me to monitor the results.....I think your setup compared to mines is apples to oranges....unless Im overlooking something...
Old 11th November 2018
  #17
Lives for gear
 
SmoothTone's Avatar
 

You can use the D-Box for monitoring. The bit you're missing is a digital interface to connect all your converters to your DAW. A lot of MEs use the Lynx AES 16e card for this. If you're wanting a simple, all-in-one solution then converters designed for mastering with 1 adc and 2 dacs like Lynx Hilo, Antelope Pure2 or Prism Lyra2 allow you to do all this over usb.
Old 11th November 2018
  #18
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone View Post
You can use the D-Box for monitoring. The bit you're missing is a digital interface to connect all your converters to your DAW. A lot of MEs use the Lynx AES 16e card for this. If you're wanting a simple, all-in-one solution then converters designed for mastering with 1 adc and 2 dacs like Lynx Hilo, Antelope Pure2 or Prism Lyra2 allow you to do all this over usb.
Wow thank u for this post....I didn even know about these units abilities in mastering in spite of knowing about them....After looking at that Hilo....I want to send back my entire rig and get that for half the price of what I just spent....lol...I just might.....grins evil......
Old 11th November 2018
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Justin P.'s Avatar
 

The HILO is the perfect starting point for somebody just getting into mastering with analog gear because of its routing flexibility. It can do the round trip from digital to analog and back to digital, plus has another D to A path for monitoring what you're doing. It's really the minimum of what you need to do it without compromise. Anything less and I'd just stay in the box.

It also sounds pretty great and is in the same league as some of the higher end converters.
Old 11th November 2018
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-dawg View Post
Wow!Please forgive me if I'm understanding this wrong,because your scenario has an interface involved which acts as your 2 extra channels of d\a as my scenario only has 2 channels of d\a....my ad\da are standalone units along with a danerous d box monitor controller involved....but if I were to apply that same routing to my setup (correct me if Im wrong) I would be able to send my mix out of my d\a into my analog chain,back into my a\d.......heck I'm lost on where the AES would come in and allow me to monitor the results.....I think your setup compared to mines is apples to oranges....unless Im overlooking something...
Assuming your Dangerous D/A has USB (or Thunderbolt or Firewire) and can act as an audio interface to your computer, your setup should work the same as I've described in principle.
Old 11th November 2018
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin P. View Post
The HILO is the perfect starting point for somebody just getting into mastering with analog gear because of its routing flexibility. It can do the round trip from digital to analog and back to digital, plus has another D to A path for monitoring what you're doing. It's really the minimum of what you need to do it without compromise. Anything less and I'd just stay in the box.

It also sounds pretty great and is in the same league as some of the higher end converters.
Thanks for that reply bro!Coming from a guy that has a rig like yours from what I seen on your website means something!I love the way the dangerous stuff sounds even tho it is more expensive and does less....so I am searching all the info I can right now to see if the quality of the conversion of the hilo is on par with it,because if so I'm definetely switching!
Old 11th November 2018
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Justin P.'s Avatar
 

Yes, the Dangerous stuff in general is really nice but if you need to stay within a budget, getting a Dangerous AD+ and a DA for the analog loop, plus another DA to monitor, and some kind of monitor controller, the cost can get pretty high.

The HILO can do the analog loop, provide a monitor path, and also work as a simple monitor controller and headphone amp all in one box so it's a really attractive starting point for people getting into mastering with analog gear.

I've not done any side by side comparisons so you may find that the Dangerous converters do sound better but you'll also find the HILO in the desks of some very accomplished mastering engineers so I guess, allocate your budget wisely.
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