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Neumann OE's gain mod Equalisers (HW)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
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Rythm'BackStudio's Avatar
 

Neumann OE's gain mod

Hi All

I am having my pair of Neumann OE eq's racked soon. I have never used them or heard them.

Right now they have 2 dB steps at det first 3 positions, then 3 db and then 6 db making the options: 2,4,6,9 and 15 dB boost or cut.

I guess Neumann had a reason behind these steps. So, my thought is to cut everything in half, so I have 1,2,3,4.5 and 7.5 dB cut and boost.

I THINK this is the type of eq where 0.5 dB steps might not be enough, and maybe a shame?

The other option is to have all steps in 1 dB, but I have no clue about how difficult that would be to implement.

Anyone here using these or have used them? I would love to hear your thoughts on the above.

Last edited by Rythm'BackStudio; 3 weeks ago at 08:31 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
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Verified Member
I have an OE DUO modified and racked. The work was done by a tech specialist in Germany, I’d have to do some searching to remember the name, but he did a very fine job. I went for .5 db steps which is what I would recommend. A little goes a long way with those.
Dave
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
You're looking for Mazz at Vintagecity.de
He is the guy.
He modded my W495b.

Also if anyone knows a bit about the history of those modules (PEV PE PEa OE 495) I would love to read about.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxnscratch View Post
You're looking for Mazz at Vintagecity.de
He is the guy.
He modded my W495b.

Also if anyone knows a bit about the history of those modules (PEV PE PEa OE 495) I would love to read about.
That’s the guy that did mine. He knows his stuff!
Dave
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

I believe the mod isrelatively simple - only changing some resistor values (?)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
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matucha's Avatar
(my experience is with w495)

While smaller steps would be very useful, I find that with the shelves this shallow you can get in-between positions with gain/freq combinations. By setting the freq higher you effectively boost less in the audible spectrum. Of course the least boost you can do is +2 @ 14khz and there's no way around it unless modified.

Like with APIs, it makes you to sculpt stuff with intent, broad bold strokes, which I kind of like in mixing and sometimes even on 2buss.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxnscratch View Post
You're looking for Mazz at Vintagecity.de
He is the guy.
He modded my W495b.

Also if anyone knows a bit about the history of those modules (PEV PE PEa OE 495) I would love to read about.
I love this eq,
Mazz Modded my unit to .5 steps and recapped it,He even built me a heavy weight psu.
I cannot believe that I left that eq sitting on a shelf for 2 years waiting for the time to do the mods myself.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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Rythm'BackStudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTransition View Post
I love this eq,
Mazz Modded my unit to .5 steps and recapped it,He even built me a heavy weight psu.
I cannot believe that I left that eq sitting on a shelf for 2 years waiting for the time to do the mods myself.
I know, mine have been sitting for more than that

Mazz is also doing mine, but they are not the DUO's and not the OEV's, but the OE with input and output trafo's, I have been told that they are quite rare, and he confirmed that. Don't know how different they are to the DUO's and OEV's, but I am excited to hear them soon

Thanks for the input! I'll have a chat with Mazz about it as well
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matucha View Post
(my experience is with w495)

While smaller steps would be very useful, I find that with the shelves this shallow you can get in-between positions with gain/freq combinations. By setting the freq higher you effectively boost less in the audible spectrum. Of course the least boost you can do is +2 @ 14khz and there's no way around it unless modified.

Like with APIs, it makes you to sculpt stuff with intent, broad bold strokes, which I kind of like in mixing and sometimes even on 2buss.
Yes, exactly. I am afraid that making it 0.5 steps will take some fun out of it. I have other stuff for that kind of broad "precision" stuff. It's okay if this is more of a shaper for 2-buss, busses, individual tracks, and some masters.

That's why I am thinking that halving the dB might be the way to go?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
if my memory is good the OE have huge transformer in and out, same type as the PEVb&c, inductor for the mid, one single op Neumann OA10, square bypass pushbutton isn't it ?

they do sound huge, but from memory can't have lower steps, or way less easily then on the 495/OE duo , for whom Neumann even wrote a note to lower the steps to 1 db

i don't realy get the point on going to half a db with those eqs
most of them have been used in transfer desk with 2db steps even 3db steps for the PEV range, some golden era of great sounding records ...

with 2 db steps you need to decide to take action and sculpt, or not, it's something i love with those eqs
(using the PEVc with HT66 a lot atm )
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livingstone View Post
if my memory is good the OE have huge transformer in and out, same type as the PEVb&c, inductor for the mid, one single op Neumann OA10, square bypass pushbutton isn't it ?

they do sound huge, but from memory can't have lower steps, or way less easily then on the 495/OE duo , for whom Neumann even wrote a note to lower the steps to 1 db

i don't realy get the point on going to half a db with those eqs
most of them have been used in transfer desk with 2db steps even 3db steps for the PEV range, some golden era of great sounding records ...

with 2 db steps you need to decide to take action and sculpt, or not, it's something i love with those eqs
(using the PEVc with HT66 a lot atm )
Yes, I think you are right! About the trafo's and inductor for the mid, that is what Mazz also said when I showed him pictures. Round bypass though

I totally get your vibe, you would keep them as is? And not change anything. I am still debating, prob. gonna cut the gain in half..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
Mazz did my w495b 2 years ago, at the time, I chose 0.5dB step for Low and HI and 1dB step for the mid.
Now I wish I chose 0.5dB for the mid as well, as wide curve, the mid is great and 1dB is sometimes too much and 2dB unreachable if I had 0.5 and 1.5 position, I would use it more.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythm'BackStudio View Post
I totally get your vibe, you would keep them as is? And not change anything. I am still debating, prob. gonna cut the gain in half..
start to use them as is, and then after a while just figure ou if it's worth it or not.
it makes sense to modify the 495/OE duo to 1 db in the mid because the Q is quite sharp, but for the OE & PEV series the Q is really wide, so maybe not that necessary, just figure it out for yourself from real use
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
Gear Head
 

I have w495 stb and Pe stereo here.
The Pe is really (really) wide, more than the w495. I have the w495 modified to 0.5 db step and it's perfect, but sometimes on the mids I would have more db too. But the PE (which can't be modified and finally I don't want) is so wide and nice (harmonics makers) , it don't need to be modified, 2db step for this model is accurate. I don't know what differences they are between PE and OE, but if it can help.

Edit : Neumann PE STEREO (early version serial 6 or 8, not really readable exactly) is totally transformerless and unbalanced, I don't think OE have this design.

Last edited by Tranx; 2 weeks ago at 02:04 PM.. Reason: Add information
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
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matucha's Avatar
I agree that the mid band on w495 would be more useful with smaller steps. Maybe in some progressive way (1, 2, 4, 6, 8) for mixing. I don't see much need for lowshelf modification, on the other hand if the top shelf had (1, 2, 4, 6, 8) or something like that, it would be more useful for the moments where you'd like to add just a bit of air. Once you boost more than that you can use freq/gain combinations for inbetweens quite effectively, only the first step @14khz is kinda coarse.

This is just theoretical, has anyone tried to use the negative part of the range for more granularity on the boost side? I can't see much use for 15dB shelf cuts in mastering . Something like ( -2, -1.5, -1, -.5, 0, .5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6) or even more asymetric would make more sense. Yes it would be a bit confusing with the original markings on the front panel ;-). My guess is it has to be symetric because the same filter is used for both boost/cut, just the polarity is switched.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
try to do extreme boosts in the high or low shelves and tame that down afterward, you 'll see how the output transformers and the circuit reacts/compress/saturate ... (if the signal isn't too loud on the input of course) my 2c
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
Regarding level, I'm quite surprise how the w495b handle things.
It is suppose to admit up to +21dBu and still working quite well close to those level which is not the case for plenty of unit.
With time, it wents later and later in the chain.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
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The OE, like the PEV (not PEV-c), depends on inductor taps for the (shelving) low/highs iirc.

So you'll have to wind new inductors for it, if you wish for finer-grained control - and this is not an easy task.

Not to mention that you will want two matched sets of inductors for stereo...

The mid boost, on the other hand, is scalable - you can even use a pot here, if you wish contionous control (2K5 Lin iirc?)

Jakob E.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
Rythm'BackStudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyraf View Post
The OE, like the PEV (not PEV-c), depends on inductor taps for the (shelving) low/highs iirc.

So you'll have to wind new inductors for it, if you wish for finer-grained control - and this is not an easy task.

Not to mention that you will want two matched sets of inductors for stereo...

The mid boost, on the other hand, is scalable - you can even use a pot here, if you wish contionous control (2K5 Lin iirc?)

Jakob E.
Thanks Jakob, no mod then
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gyraf View Post
The OE, like the PEV (not PEV-c), depends on inductor taps for the (shelving) low/highs iirc.

So you'll have to wind new inductors for it, if you wish for finer-grained control - and this is not an easy task.

Not to mention that you will want two matched sets of inductors for stereo...
Hey Jakob, who would be able to do new inductor windings for these EQ's? Is this something that you've done before? I have a set of the original PEV's (passive) and they're inductor wound with +/- 3dB for the shelves and +/- 2dB for the mid band. I've always wanted these EQ's in 1dB steps but didn't think it could be done. As they are now they're not really useful in a mastering context but I've always loved the tone and EQ of these.

I also have a set of PEV-C's (active) which I was able to have modified. For this EQ I went with +/- 0.5dB steps for the shelves and +/- 1dB for the mids. Works a treat.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
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gyraf's Avatar
Hi Matt,

No, never did it, and never heard of anyone actually succeeding with this - but the idea pops up a couple of times each decade (I was first asked about this sometime in 1988).

Maybe I should look into it at some point, to once and for all decide if it is possible at all with modern available materials.

Jakob E.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
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The inductors in the PEV are part of the rotary switch. They are not on the PCB. It would be physically difficult to either replace the coils or the whole switch.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
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in ours, they are simple chassis-mounted shielded inductors, connected to the switches by (color-coded) wires. But I have seen some that has ferrite-core inductors mounted physically to the end of the switches..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #24
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I’ve never seen one like that. I guess I’ve seen about a dozen. Some with 60Hz LF and others with 100Hz LF. I have the 100Hz versions.
Old 1 week ago
  #25
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Mine is the 60Hz version, I posted photos of the innards in the 'The Gutz' thread not so long ago. Would be interested to pursue this if indeed it was possible to change the inductor gain
Old 1 week ago
  #26
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Winding a new inductor is in a different league than replacing a resistor. There is a lot of “sound” in the inductors. To try to replicate the part I’d think you’d have to do a autopsy on one. Sounds like a job for CJ on GDIY. I wouldn’t trust too many people to get that right. I wouldn’t do this. It’s a bridge too far for me.
Old 6 days ago
  #27
Gear Nut
Neumman w495 STB

Hey guys

I have a great example of a w495 STB racked and recapped by Vintage City and with the 1db mastering mod if any of you are interested.

Gain steps in hi and low band are 1/2/3/4/5/7,5 dbs and midband is 1/2/3/4,5 dbs.

It sounds absolutely amazing and i really don't want to let it go, but i have other gear to pay for :/

Here:
Neumann W495 STB
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