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What are your favorite headphones in the mastering room. Studio Headphones
Old 27th December 2018
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
Yes, just take out the little circle of foam behind the centre of the driver, and the bigger piece of foam in front of the driver. I waited eight years to do it, but when I did, had no thoughts of putting them back. It was documented online somewhere, with lots of pics, but just did a search and can't find it now.
I think I found it....is this the one ?
APureSound - Where The Music Is Always Pure - APS Audio LLC.
Old 27th December 2018
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I think I found it....is this the one ?
APureSound - Where The Music Is Always Pure - APS Audio LLC.
Yes, that's the one! Thanks, cos I was looking for that link yesterday to post over at the Steve Hoffman forum!
Old 27th December 2018
  #243
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Yep, I did the same thing to my HD600. They sound much better ( although a bit more uncomfortable ) !
Old 27th December 2018
  #244
OMU
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan98 View Post
OK - thanks, I appreciate the advice.

I guess all I can do is see if Shure have anything to say about custom moulds before I take the plunge.
I'm running out of other options to be honest, due to my particular requirements.
I found the KSE1500 to have a really good fit, they are small, very light, the olive tips (if you like them) can work great, but this is me and my ears, things can get complicated if your ears are different. For me there was zero need for custom moulds since the first day I started using IEMs, but some don't seem to get a good fit with universals, maybe that's your case too.
Old 27th December 2018
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
I found the KSE1500 to have a really good fit, they are small, very light, the olive tips (if you like them) can work great, but this is me and my ears, things can get complicated if your ears are different. For me there was zero need for custom moulds since the first day I started using IEMs, but some don't seem to get a good fit with universals, maybe that's your case too.
Yes, unfortunately I've always had problems with IEMs fitting (I just have weird ears I guess!). If these didn't fit, then I would find a custom sleeve.

So about these KSE1500 - it looks to me that the KSE1200 are exactly the same headphones but without the DAC? This would suit me better.

But it seems to me that the noise isolation is passive rather than active on these - that's not ideal.
In this case I've just had the crazy idea of using the Sony MX3's over the top of the KSE1200s ! One actively reducing the noise, the other giving a top-quality sound. Could be worth a try.....
Old 27th December 2018
  #246
OMU
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Yeah, it seems 1200 is 1500 minus the digital part (DAC and eq). Although, that eq could be handy to tame that huge treble spike.

All closed headphones/IEMs targeted to pro use can only have passive isolation. Noise reduction systems will always take something away from the music, which is exactly what you don't want when doing critical listening. The idea of listening the way you suggest is something I don't quite get, although simply having an additional closed headphone on top of the IEMs will obviously attenuate the ambience more.
Old 28th December 2018
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit D View Post
Ah ah no, NS10 sounded bad yesterday, sounds bad today and will sound bad for ever

I agree that our brain have to be re-calibrated when we are used to a certain sound. But when I engaged the Sonarworks EQ, I didn’t heard anything else than (kind of) phase shiftings everywhere.
If you use the minimum phase/0 latency setting then yes you will hear tons of phase shift. I use the old version of the program with the "optimum" setting, which seems to me like minimum phase in the low end and linear for the rest.

I tend to not need to have the headphones as loud when I have sonarworks engaged, as the Clears are a bit recessed in the mids and also air regions, and I want to turn them up too loud to hear those regions. Sonarworks also fills out the subs a bit. The midrange is startling when you first engage sonarworks, but to me Vox sound more correct after the adjustment period.
Old 28th December 2018
  #248
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thermos's Avatar
Just got the KSE1200s yesterday. Definitely not usable in stock form, can opener really helps with the high end spike, as do bigger fitting foam oval tips. But the eq isn't right, I would de-ess the living crap out of everything. Great sound quality for sure, not sure if they will be critical enough yet but they do sound great. I will send these to Sonarworks and keep y'all posted.
Old 28th December 2018
  #249
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I've really given it a proper go with headphones a short while back. Learning all there is about head related transfer function and the different EQ curves for supposedly natural sound etc. But in the end I've come to the conclusion that headphones have very severe limits no matter the price.

First of all headphones will never get the head related transfer function right. This is caused not only by the head but also by the ear and differs depending from where the sound comes from. Stereo speakers are not perfect either but a long long way ahead of headphones. They can be made flat and the result is natural. For headphones to come near one has to make a very specific HRTF measurement of your ears (which results in not a broad curve but also specific sharp dips etc) and do a complex simulation which is not available to normal headphone users and will still not result in as natural a sound.
And secondly, a single full range driver for a headphone is not as good as a multi driver speaker system. They all have a lot of resonce and cone breakup issues, even electrostats have resonances (though they seem to be the best overall option for headphones).
The key to great sound far exceeding any headphones is (proper big time) room treatment and then good speakers and amp(s) in my opinion.
Old 28th December 2018
  #250
I guess since I heard the Grado 325 I never looked back only to get the 325e.
they are cheap enough to be a no brainer yet they sound like twice or more their price tag
Old 28th December 2018
  #251
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Even with the mod to the HD600, you still can’t hear the top octave clearly, even 8k and above isn’t totally clear to the point that sibilance and sharp transients and compression artifacts can’t be clearly judged in my experience,
I want a pair of HD800s but my favorite pair of headphones are the Pioneer Se-monitor5, the best closed headphone I’ve ever used.
I own the pioneers, sennheiser hd600 (had 650 before), hd25, hd26, focal spirit pro and some JBLs. For location recording and for mastering, the pioneers are nearly perfect although it is always nice to take two pairs of headphones along- one for detail accuracy and one for perspective.
Ground glass and loupe.
Old 28th December 2018
  #252
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I'd be extremely happy with a hybrid headphone....one that incorporated the low end and mid bass of the HD600's and the remainder of the range a duplicate of the speed, low distortion and clarity of my old Stax SRX3 electrostatics. That would be well nigh perfect, judging by my experience with both. The Sennheiser Orpheus probably attains that ideal....but nobody here can afford one !
Old 28th December 2018
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I'd be extremely happy with a hybrid headphone....one that incorporated the low end and mid bass of the HD600's and the remainder of the range a duplicate of the speed, low distortion and clarity of my old Stax SRX3 electrostatics. That would be well nigh perfect, judging by my experience with both. The Sennheiser Orpheus probably attains that ideal....but nobody here can afford one !
Try the Abyss Phi.
Old 28th December 2018
  #254
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I'm wondering since a long time if compression is the main problem with headphones. Sure, frequency responce is important but people can mix with ns10. So it can't be the most important thing.

I'm curious why so few research is going into this area. With compression I mean that dynamics sounds different. A signal that sounds well ballances on headphones falls apart sometimes on speakers.
Old 28th December 2018
  #255
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouHuman View Post
I'm wondering since a long time if compression is the main problem with headphones. Sure, frequency responce is important but people can mix with ns10. So it can't be the most important thing.

I'm curious why so few research is going into this area. With compression I mean that dynamics sounds different. A signal that sounds well ballances on headphones falls apart sometimes on speakers.
I don’t find that to be the case with the latest gen headphones. Audeze lcd-i4 and focal clear for instance, they render dynamics the way speakers do and things translate. Hd600s don’t translate for example.
Old 28th December 2018
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I don’t find that to be the case with the latest gen headphones. Audeze lcd-i4 and focal clear for instance, they render dynamics the way speakers do and things translate. Hd600s don’t translate for example.
yesterday i have ordered the hd600. i am excited like a kid.
they cost 288 euro.
the focal cost 1149 euro.
the focal clear professional cost 1444 euro.
Old 28th December 2018
  #257
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Hermetech Mastering's Avatar
 

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Yeah, the HD600 translate just fine to my ATCs. Still maintain there's nothing in their price range that even comes close.
Old 28th December 2018
  #258
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaugruen7 View Post
yesterday i have ordered the hd600. i am excited like a kid.
they cost 288 euro.
the focal cost 1149 euro.
the focal clear professional cost 1444 euro.
600s are great! Definitely classics, but the new generation phones are definitely a step up. I think the Clears are almost underpriced for their quality.
Old 29th December 2018
  #259
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I'm ok with spending premium on headphones, but more than 800€ is just so much for a headphone. The Clears are just a bit too expensive. What a pity that they are so super expensive, they sounds like a headphone I would like (haven't heared them so far, but from the reviews).

Actually, my situation is that I'm considering the HD600 vs HD650 from Sonaworks or the Audio-Technica ATH-R70x.

But the more the read about these headphones the more I don't like to spend around 400€ on a compromise. There are a lot of good words about the HD600/650, but as much criticism. Then you have the epic HD600 vs HD650 discussion were you also have to decide between these two models. The ATH-R70x has very good reviews, but some say that it sounds a bit grainy.

But the next step seems to be 1500€ for the Clear. There is nothing in between. I was also thinking about the AKG K812 for about 750€, but I heared a lot of mixed things about it

As you mentioned to like the HD600, do you prefer them to the HD650?
Old 29th December 2018
  #260
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I did a lot of testing when I bought my HD600, around the same time as the HD650 came out, must have been about a decade ago. Was in the Sennheiser Tokyo store trying out both with my own portable player and lossless files. For me the HD600 just sounded better/more neutral every time, the 650 sounded a bit more congested in the lower mids. At least that was my observation at the time and why I went for the 600s. Not looked back. I still maintain nothing else in their price range comes close. As you have worked out, if you want better than that, you are going to have to at least triple the expenditure, and for me, who never mastered with headphones anyway (have the ATCs for that, just use the cans for pleasure listening and the odd check), I can't justify the price of the upgrade. And I still LOVE my HD600s.
Old 29th December 2018
  #261
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouHuman View Post
I'm ok with spending premium on headphones, but more than 800€ is just so much for a headphone. The Clears are just a bit too expensive. What a pity that they are so super expensive, they sounds like a headphone I would like (haven't heared them so far, but from the reviews).

Actually, my situation is that I'm considering the HD600 vs HD650 from Sonaworks or the Audio-Technica ATH-R70x.

But the more the read about these headphones the more I don't like to spend around 400€ on a compromise. There are a lot of good words about the HD600/650, but as much criticism. Then you have the epic HD600 vs HD650 discussion were you also have to decide between these two models. The ATH-R70x has very good reviews, but some say that it sounds a bit grainy.

But the next step seems to be 1500€ for the Clear. There is nothing in between. I was also thinking about the AKG K812 for about 750€, but I heared a lot of mixed things about it

As you mentioned to like the HD600, do you prefer them to the HD650?
The Pioneer SE-Monitor5 is the best headphone I own and have heard out of a lot of high end cans and they are often found priced at under 800 euros, I've seen them for as low as 400/500 euros new. They need to be broken in for a couple days.

Better than the hd800s in a lot of aspects, better than any other Sennheiser by a country mile. If you want to hear any small detail the se-monitor5 will tell you that information easily, one friend who owns both compared them to the Dutch&Dutch monitors. Also fun to listen to. Pretty close to uncompromised, excellent for listening for clicks, pops, sibilance, etc. Anything that sounds great on them sounds unbelievable. It also has an uncompromised build quality with heavy damped drivers, but its extremely comfortable.

The HD650 is more congested than the hd600. The HD600 I see as a reasonable hi-fi speaker pair listened to in a diffuse field. Pleasant to listen to, but they don't tell you easily about small details. I have done the foam removal mods, which does improve the sound slightly. I would agree with Hermetech in their description of the HD600's uses, but I like the SE-Monitor5 because it actually does what I need a headphone for: checking small details and high end, using it for recording, mastering checks, comparing equipment, listening for minor compression artefacts...
Old 29th December 2018
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill View Post

The HD650 is more congested than the hd600. The HD600 I see as a reasonable hi-fi speaker pair listened to in a diffuse field. Pleasant to listen to, but they don't tell you easily about small details. I have done the foam removal mods, which does improve the sound slightly. I would agree with Hermetech in their description of the HD600's uses, but I like the SE-Monitor5 because it actually does what I need a headphone for: checking small details and high end, using it for recording, mastering checks, comparing equipment, listening for minor compression artefacts...
With "is more congested" you mean that the HD650 is missing detail compared to the HD600?
Old 29th December 2018
  #263
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouHuman View Post
I'm ok with spending premium on headphones, but more than 800€ is just so much for a headphone. The Clears are just a bit too expensive. What a pity that they are so super expensive, they sounds like a headphone I would like (haven't heared them so far, but from the reviews).

Actually, my situation is that I'm considering the HD600 vs HD650 from Sonaworks or the Audio-Technica ATH-R70x.

But the more the read about these headphones the more I don't like to spend around 400€ on a compromise. There are a lot of good words about the HD600/650, but as much criticism. Then you have the epic HD600 vs HD650 discussion were you also have to decide between these two models. The ATH-R70x has very good reviews, but some say that it sounds a bit grainy.

But the next step seems to be 1500€ for the Clear. There is nothing in between. I was also thinking about the AKG K812 for about 750€, but I heared a lot of mixed things about it

As you mentioned to like the HD600, do you prefer them to the HD650?
Not sure if you are talking to me, but I like the 600s better. As others say, the low mids are less congested and the upper midrange sounds more telling.
Old 29th December 2018
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouHuman View Post
With "is more congested" you mean that the HD650 is missing detail compared to the HD600?
Yes, but I think the hd650 has more bass than the 600 and I hear it as some sort of phase problem in the bass, whereas the hd600 is more neutral in that regard- the bass rolloff is more natural and cleaner.
Old 29th December 2018
  #265
PMF
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Still very happy with my "old faithful" DT990's but I'd like to try the DT1990's sometime soon
Old 3rd January 2019
  #266
ATH-R70x for me here for few weeks.
I don't know about grainy but its a nice one.
The space around the low end is pretty cool, sometimes I feel like I forgot to mute my monitor.
It needs a juicy amp tho.
Old 3rd January 2019
  #267
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DT1990s

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMF View Post
Still very happy with my "old faithful" DT990's but I'd like to try the DT1990's sometime soon
A while back I upgraded from DT990s to T90s which was a major step up! Now I have the DT1990s and they are excellent. In a different league to the 990s to be honest. But T90s are similar and can be found cheap occasionally.
Old 3rd January 2019
  #268
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it depends for what you use the headphone, from my little experience with popular dynamic cans from akg beyer ath ect, they can be detailed in the mids and highs it s their strengh but not detailed with transients / dynamic and maybe the sound is not as fast and tight ,also the low is not great , thats where some unhyped orthos are really good, it feels kinda like mixing on speaker to me while equing or compressing, while dynamic cans not really
Old 3rd January 2019
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract View Post
it depends for what you use the headphone, from my little experience with popular dynamic cans from akg beyer ath ect, they can be detailed in the mids and highs it s their strengh but not detailed with transients / dynamic and maybe the sound is not as fast and tight ,also the low is not great , thats where some unhyped orthos are really good, it feels kinda like mixing on speaker to me while equing or compressing, while dynamic cans not really
Yes. Peeps like to hear the rough as well as the smooth, as with Yamaha NS10s. But until you actually hear phones like the DT1990s, you just wont know how good they are!
Old 4th January 2019
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracktionmonkey View Post
Yes. Peeps like to hear the rough as well as the smooth, as with Yamaha NS10s. But until you actually hear phones like the DT1990s, you just wont know how good they are!
Have you tried the ATH-R70s?
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