The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
What are your favorite headphones in the mastering room. Studio Headphones
Old 21st December 2018
  #211
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
Just did a shoot out with my ATH-R70xs vs a $1,600 pair of headphones and the ATHs won!
This might be useful information if we were informed what the $1600 headphones were and in what way the ATH-R70X were superior.
Old 21st December 2018
  #212
Lives for gear
 
bcgood's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I don't want to "bash" the other company, especially since this is all subjective.

The ATHs actually had more detail and seemed less hyped, (more flat).

By the way I bought them like everyone else so this is not some sort of paid endorsement, I just really like them a lot.
Old 22nd December 2018
  #213
Gear Head
 

A slight curveball...

Does anybody have any recommendations regarding high end noise-cancelling headphones?
My HD800s are amazing, but only in a silent environment - unfortunately I have to do some work in a noisier location next year.

I would happily pay a high price for something which does the job well.
So far, I've come across the Sony WH-1000XM3 - rave reviews but I somehow doubt they'll sound anything as good as the HD800s.

Any thoughts appreciated.
Old 22nd December 2018
  #214
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan98 View Post
A slight curveball...

Does anybody have any recommendations regarding high end noise-cancelling headphones?
My HD800s are amazing, but only in a silent environment - unfortunately I have to do some work in a noisier location next year.

I would happily pay a high price for something which does the job well.
So far, I've come across the Sony WH-1000XM3 - rave reviews but I somehow doubt they'll sound anything as good as the HD800s.

Any thoughts appreciated.
There aren't any. Those Sonys are GREAT, but they are not mastering or mixing phones, just the best sounding noise cancelling phones ever.

The way to do it is to get some IEMs or CIEMs. I have a pair of Shure KSE-1200s on order.
Old 22nd December 2018
  #215
Gear Head
 

Okay - thanks for the info.
Unfortunately I’ve never had any luck with IEMs - they just don’t seem to fit and simply fall out or sound tinny, even trying different sized tips etc.
I guess I could look into Ciems, but it’ll be quite a gamble considering my previous experiences.
Old 22nd December 2018
  #216
OMU
Lives for gear
 
OMU's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I have a pair of Shure KSE-1200s on order.
If they are the same with the 1500s, they need some serious eq-ing before touching anything. The high frequency spike is so severe that it's impossible to judge anything. To me nothing sounded good or bad on them when I tried them, everything just sounded overdone.

What happened to your lcd i4? I have them too and don't feel the need to replace them. I did, however, spent some time to eq them (the Audeze plugin is pretty weak IMO, yes, better than without but nothing I would use in real work) and now they are just great for me. However, I still do everything on the Amphions and just use the iems for a final check.
Old 22nd December 2018
  #217
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
If they are the same with the 1500s, they need some serious eq-ing before touching anything. The high frequency spike is so severe that it's impossible to judge anything. To me nothing sounded good or bad on them when I tried them, everything just sounded overdone.

What happened to your lcd i4? I have them too and don't feel the need to replace them. I did, however, spent some time to eq them (the Audeze plugin is pretty weak IMO, yes, better than without but nothing I would use in real work) and now they are just great for me. However, I still do everything on the Amphions and just use the iems for a final check.
I’m gonna send them to sonarworks and see what happens. The i4s were nice but worse than open back headphones for isolation. And I could never feel tangibility with the high end. I just can’t get a grip on audeze high end. Great phones though. I’m using focal clears now with sonarworks and I love them.
Old 23rd December 2018
  #218
OMU
Lives for gear
 
OMU's Avatar
 

I know what you mean. They don't isolate at all, which can also be a really good thing though. I hope the guys from Sonarworks will do them justice, they are able to render the high end beautifully when properly eq-ed.

Focal Clear left me cold, though. I seem to like the planar magnetics so much more than anything else in the headphone world (haven't tried full sized electrostatics yet).
@dan98: a humble advice: high end IEM market is dominated by balanced armature designs. Those IME are the worst in translating the results to the real (dynamic driver based) world. They always sound flat (there's no 3d perception), and the dynamics are really hard to get right. I found the planar magnetic technology to work much better for me, but I spend a lot of time eq-ing my headphones until they sound pretty much like my monitors. I do this for quite some time and even after eq, the balanced armature iems (I have the JH Layla with 12 drivers per channel sitting here unused) give me a hard time.

Everyone is different and maybe they could work for some people. Anyway, my advice would be to get at least a couple of high end items, maybe a dynamic and a planar magnetic, in order to have a usable way of changing the perspective when working. Even Glenn Schick admitted he uses several pairs of custom IEMs. It's like having multiple sets of speakers, really, and there's a lot to gain from that, especially with something so tricky as headphones.
Old 23rd December 2018
  #219
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I’m using focal clears now with sonarworks and I love them.
My next purchase! Currently using HD800 with SW (sold the Abyss AB-1266 after getting the Kii's).

How much does SW change the balance of the Clears? A couple of reviews mention a smaller soundstage, would you agree?
Old 23rd December 2018
  #220
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
I know what you mean. They don't isolate at all, which can also be a really good thing though. I hope the guys from Sonarworks will do them justice, they are able to render the high end beautifully when properly eq-ed.

Focal Clear left me cold, though. I seem to like the planar magnetics so much more than anything else in the headphone world (haven't tried full sized electrostatics yet).
@dan98: a humble advice: high end IEM market is dominated by balanced armature designs. Those IME are the worst in translating the results to the real (dynamic driver based) world. They always sound flat (there's no 3d perception), and the dynamics are really hard to get right. I found the planar magnetic technology to work much better for me, but I spend a lot of time eq-ing my headphones until they sound pretty much like my monitors. I do this for quite some time and even after eq, the balanced armature iems (I have the JH Layla with 12 drivers per channel sitting here unused) give me a hard time.

Everyone is different and maybe they could work for some people. Anyway, my advice would be to get at least a couple of high end items, maybe a dynamic and a planar magnetic, in order to have a usable way of changing the perspective when working. Even Glenn Schick admitted he uses several pairs of custom IEMs. It's like having multiple sets of speakers, really, and there's a lot to gain from that, especially with something so tricky as headphones.
Glenn is using Audeze now actually, I think LCD-4. I'm happy I didn't jump into some Laylas, they kind of sound impossible to judge. I'm so used to the Sonarworks curve now that I'm curious to see what the KSE-1200s will do with that curve. The Clears with Sonarworks are just great. I'll probably keep my eye on new Audeze models. I almost sent the I4s to sonarworks but never got around to it. They will profile them if you send them in.
Old 23rd December 2018
  #221
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
My next purchase! Currently using HD800 with SW (sold the Abyss AB-1266 after getting the Kii's).

How much does SW change the balance of the Clears? A couple of reviews mention a smaller soundstage, would you agree?
The SQ of sonarworks leaves something to be desired, so maybe the imaging takes a hit. But the eq curve is way better. They are pretty usable without sonarworks actually, but definitely better with.

The clears take a LONG time to break in. I almost gave up on them. I loved them at first, then they entered a phase where I couldn't hear any detail. Then all of a sudden they were totally balanced, and dither changes were like startlingly apparent. Now they are great and translate really well (also using can opener).
Old 23rd December 2018
  #222
Lives for gear
 
Justin P.'s Avatar
 

Audeze LCD-X fed by a Little Labs MONOTOR fed by a speaker line out of my Avocet IIA.

No software correction needed. While this setup may not be "perfect", I'll take it vs. the trade off of the correction software processing and dealing with having to drop the level to avoid clipping and losing level calibration etc.

I was never much of a headphone guy until discovering the Audeze LCD-X.
Old 23rd December 2018
  #223
Gear Head
 
Benoit D's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I’m using focal clears now with sonarworks and I love them.
I tried Sonarworks (trial) when they announced the Focal Clear curve, because I was curious to know what kind of EQ settings they provided for one of the most neutral/balance headphones in the world. I wasn’t convinced at all. Really not at all. I sounded totally “fake” with the correction engaged.

What are your settings ?
Old 23rd December 2018
  #224
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit D View Post
I tried Sonarworks (trial) when they announced the Focal Clear curve, because I was curious to know what kind of EQ settings they provided for one of the most neutral/balance headphones in the world. I wasn’t convinced at all. Really not at all. I sounded totally “fake” with the correction engaged.

What are your settings ?
It’s just what you get used to. If you listen to ns10s long enough they sound correct. But missing information is missing information, when you hear it added or subtracted at first it sounds wrong. Then you get used to it and it’s easier to work with. I find anyway.
Old 23rd December 2018
  #225
Gear Head
 
Benoit D's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
It’s just what you get used to. If you listen to ns10s long enough they sound correct. But missing information is missing information, when you hear it added or subtracted at first it sounds wrong. Then you get used to it and it’s easier to work with. I find anyway.
Ah ah no, NS10 sounded bad yesterday, sounds bad today and will sound bad for ever

I agree that our brain have to be re-calibrated when we are used to a certain sound. But when I engaged the Sonarworks EQ, I didn’t heard anything else than (kind of) phase shiftings everywhere.
Old 25th December 2018
  #226
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
I know what you mean. They don't isolate at all, which can also be a really good thing though. I hope the guys from Sonarworks will do them justice, they are able to render the high end beautifully when properly eq-ed.

Focal Clear left me cold, though. I seem to like the planar magnetics so much more than anything else in the headphone world (haven't tried full sized electrostatics yet).
@dan98: a humble advice: high end IEM market is dominated by balanced armature designs. Those IME are the worst in translating the results to the real (dynamic driver based) world. They always sound flat (there's no 3d perception), and the dynamics are really hard to get right. I found the planar magnetic technology to work much better for me, but I spend a lot of time eq-ing my headphones until they sound pretty much like my monitors. I do this for quite some time and even after eq, the balanced armature iems (I have the JH Layla with 12 drivers per channel sitting here unused) give me a hard time.

Everyone is different and maybe they could work for some people. Anyway, my advice would be to get at least a couple of high end items, maybe a dynamic and a planar magnetic, in order to have a usable way of changing the perspective when working. Even Glenn Schick admitted he uses several pairs of custom IEMs. It's like having multiple sets of speakers, really, and there's a lot to gain from that, especially with something so tricky as headphones.
Interesting because I also found your description of IEMs ties in with my experience, In addition to the badly-fitting problem.

I've just seen a company which takes ear-moulds and claims a good fit.
I'm getting intrigued enough to take the plunge and try buying a pair of KSE1200s to use this way.
I would be fine to EQ them as I already do that with the HD800s in conjunction with a room simulator. (FWIW, Sonarworks sounds artificial to me so I do my own EQing)
Old 25th December 2018
  #227
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan98 View Post
Interesting because I also found your description of IEMs ties in with my experience, In addition to the badly-fitting problem.

I've just seen a company which takes ear-moulds and claims a good fit.
I'm getting intrigued enough to take the plunge and try buying a pair of KSE1200s to use this way.
I would be fine to EQ them as I already do that with the HD800s in conjunction with a room simulator. (FWIW, Sonarworks sounds artificial to me so I do my own EQing)
Don't be too hasty.

I had custom ear molds made for my Etymotic Research ER4Ss 20 years ago and, apart from being more awkward to remove in a hurry, as you sometimes need to in the heat of a session, they also sounded inferior to the stock multi flange ear tips supplied with the ER4Ss. They also were not cheap. Money down the drain, since they cannot be returned.

When I queried a tech at Etymotic about this he said he couldn't understand why custom molds were so popular, since they had the same experience with them; they spoiled the sound.

This is conjecture, but I think it must have something to do with what could be called the acoustic 'micro-environment' between the inside tip of the tip of either the mold or the stock tip and the eardrum, in other words, there is more to this than acoustic isolation from the ambient soundfield. I can imagine the tendency for standing waves to be set up between the eardrum and IEM and the harder surface of the earmold (as compared to more absorbent, softer surface of the silicone) would support and reflect rather than absorb this energy.
Old 25th December 2018
  #228
Gear Maniac
 
01010110's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I almost sent the I4s to sonarworks but never got around to it. They will profile them if you send them in.
Last time I asked (just a few months ago), they could not measure IEMs :(
Old 25th December 2018
  #229
Gear Maniac
 
01010110's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
My next purchase! Currently using HD800 with SW (sold the Abyss AB-1266 after getting the Kii's).
Would you mind telling us a bit about your thoughts on the Abyss compared to HD800? I consider testing AB-1266 to see if it can replace some of my LCD-i4/Angie/Clear/HD800/etc..-setup.
Old 25th December 2018
  #230
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Dawkins View Post
Don't be too hasty.

I had custom ear molds made for my Etymotic Research ER4Ss 20 years ago and, apart from being more awkward to remove in a hurry, as you sometimes need to in the heat of a session, they also sounded inferior to the stock multi flange ear tips supplied with the ER4Ss. They also were not cheap. Money down the drain, since they cannot be returned.

When I queried a tech at Etymotic about this he said he couldn't understand why custom molds were so popular, since they had the same experience with them; they spoiled the sound.

This is conjecture, but I think it must have something to do with what could be called the acoustic 'micro-environment' between the inside tip of the tip of either the mold or the stock tip and the eardrum, in other words, there is more to this than acoustic isolation from the ambient soundfield. I can imagine the tendency for standing waves to be set up between the eardrum and IEM and the harder surface of the earmold (as compared to more absorbent, softer surface of the silicone) would support and reflect rather than absorb this energy.
OK - thanks, I appreciate the advice.

I guess all I can do is see if Shure have anything to say about custom moulds before I take the plunge.
I'm running out of other options to be honest, due to my particular requirements.
Old 25th December 2018
  #231
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010110 View Post
Would you mind telling us a bit about your thoughts on the Abyss compared to HD800? I consider testing AB-1266 to see if it can replace some of my LCD-i4/Angie/Clear/HD800/etc..-setup.
No contest (at all) vs the HD800. The Abyss are in a different league (especially the Phi version). I was driving them directly via the Simaudio Moon 600i - great pairing.

Nice collection of cans you have there.
Old 26th December 2018
  #232
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010110 View Post
Last time I asked (just a few months ago), they could not measure IEMs :(
They can! Just not CIEMs
Old 26th December 2018
  #233
Gear Maniac
 
01010110's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
They can! Just not CIEMs
Is this very new? I would love to send them some.

This is the answer they gave me: "Due to inconsistency in results, we do not offer individual calibration for IEMs."
Old 26th December 2018
  #234
Gear Maniac
 
01010110's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
No contest (at all) vs the HD800. The Abyss are in a different league (especially the Phi version). I was driving them directly via the Simaudio Moon 600i - great pairing.
Thanks for your answer. Yes, from what I've read, they do seem to be in a different league. But how are they to work with? Did you try mastering with them? What did you miss with them?

Unfortunately, I can't find a pair in the nearest cities to try.
Old 26th December 2018
  #235
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010110 View Post
Thanks for your answer. Yes, from what I've read, they do seem to be in a different league. But how are they to work with? Did you try mastering with them? What did you miss with them?

Unfortunately, I can't find a pair in the nearest cities to try.
Due to the way they sit, you have to be reasonably still with them - no head banging. Fantastic to work with as they're the most 'speaker' sounding cans you can buy.

I'm not a ME so cannot comment for that purpose. I missed nothing - bought Kii Three's and stopped using headphones. Still need to sell the Lumin A1, 600i, LCD-2 and HD800.
Old 26th December 2018
  #236
Lives for gear
 
spaceman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan98 View Post
A slight curveball...

Does anybody have any recommendations regarding high end noise-cancelling headphones?
My HD800s are amazing, but only in a silent environment - unfortunately I have to do some work in a noisier location next year.

I would happily pay a high price for something which does the job well.
So far, I've come across the Sony WH-1000XM3 - rave reviews but I somehow doubt they'll sound anything as good as the HD800s.

Any thoughts appreciated.
I have HD800's and bought the Sony WH-1000XM3 just a month ago. I actually didn't even really buy them for music purposes, but because there is construction work in the building where I live and the noise was unbearable for me, so I just wanted the best noise-cancelling headphones I could find and they do reduce the noise levels impressively. Loud hammer noise just a couple meters from me became faint plucks.
The bonus was how good they sounded too, except for one big con ( which was reported almost everywhere in reviews ), the bass is freaking overbearing. I thought the bass was too much on my ATH M-50X, but on the Sony they are at least twice more exagerated. Without EQ they are simply unlistenable to me.
I contacted Sonarworks and they told me they already have them and should be able to release a profile for them before year end.

As for comparison between the HD800 and the Sony, they just don't compare. I would say they have equivalent resolution to the ATH m-50X, they also feel more natural than the latter ( once you EQ the bass ). I think they're good enough for some premixing work or for composing, audio editing etc.. including in very noisy environments. But they definitely do not approach the amount of resolution and detail of the HD800's.
Old 26th December 2018
  #237
Gear Head
 

That’s exactly the comparison I was looking for - thanks very much.
The excessive bass probably wouldn’t be a problem as I EQ the HD800s anyway, but the lack of detail / resolution would be.
Would be marvellous if they brought out a noise-cancelling version of the HD800!
In the meantime I’ll have to continue down the route of finding a custom IEM.
Old 27th December 2018
  #238
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010110 View Post
Is this very new? I would love to send them some.

This is the answer they gave me: "Due to inconsistency in results, we do not offer individual calibration for IEMs."
Thats what they said initially to me too, but I guess something changed. They said just make to send smaller tips so they can get the correct seal.
Old 27th December 2018
  #239
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
HD600 (650 cable, foam removed, plus EQ & crossfeed). Never for actual mastering though!
Can you tell me what the "foam removed" tweak is please ? Is that taking out one of the foam oval sheets which sit on the driver mounting plate and would prevent your ears from contacting the plate or driver ? Is this documented somewhere (like Head-Fi) as a common or recommended tweak ?
Old 27th December 2018
  #240
Lives for gear
 
Hermetech Mastering's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Yes, just take out the little circle of foam behind the centre of the driver, and the bigger piece of foam in front of the driver. I waited eight years to do it, but when I did, had no thoughts of putting them back. It was documented online somewhere, with lots of pics, but just did a search and can't find it now.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump