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What are your favorite headphones in the mastering room. Studio Headphones
Old 12th April 2018
  #91
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Raddler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
LCD-X are superb headphones, especially for music enjoyment, if you can cope with their weight for a longer period. But as much as I try to use them for location work, they simply sound too polite. Everything, and I mean it, everything sounds great with them. They don't give you any critical judgement, never tell you you are wrong. Anything you do with them sounds super great, just different. While with some headphones you have to learn their characteristic sound to be able to understand them and work with them, there is no need like this with LCD-X...because whatever you make, they will give you nods for your decision. I can do better translatable mixes with Apple AirPods in a short period.

But yes, for a pure al enjoyment, they can compare to B&W 801s in a superb room, with full and great bottom end, pleasant mids and smooth highs.
Well unfortunately I'd be getting them strictly for mixing and making mix decisions, not to enjoy music...I do agree with you slightly though, everything always works with the LCD-X, esp the bass, I'm still not sure if these cans are hyped down there or is revealing what I've always been missing with my 600's, subbass body.
Old 14th April 2018
  #92
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listening and EQ’ing with HQ headphones is definitely immersion into virtual reality of sorts.

the detail and stereo image are great, but...

usually takes a few minutes for my ears to readjust to actual ambient reality after i remove them.

i never liked ear buds either, at all.

perhaps it’s a generation gap thing.

so i’m with the ‘get a real room with good acoustics & monitoring group’

listening to headphones for too long skews your perception of audio reality,

just ask a veteran DJ who spends many hours per day in them.

but that’s, just like, my opinion, man... (big lebowski)

best, jt
Old 14th April 2018
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb View Post
listening and EQ’ing with HQ headphones is definitely immersion into virtual reality of sorts.

the detail and stereo image are great, but...

usually takes a few minutes for my ears to readjust to actual ambient reality after i remove them.

i never liked ear buds either, at all.

perhaps it’s a generation gap thing.

so i’m with the ‘get a real room with good acoustics & monitoring group’

listening to headphones for too long skews your perception of audio reality,

just ask a veteran DJ who spends many hours per day in them.

but that’s, just like, my opinion, man... (big lebowski)

best, jt
My fascination with headphones ticked up a notch after reading up on Glenn Schick. My friend who is an A level nut said Glenn delivered the best master he has ever heard. I'm not leaving my monitors anytime soon but "the times they are a changin."

Glenn Schick Mastering
Old 14th April 2018
  #94
OMU
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Since almost everybody listens to headphones nowadays (or iems, or earbuds etc.) it does make sense to also use them for making music. However, in my case, although I did try for 2-3 years to adapt to working on high end headphones, the results I'm getting from a good speaker monitoring setup are significantly better, including when listening on headphones.

I suppose one really needs to tick with headphones, in order to eliminate speakers from their setup, as Glenn Schick did, and it's pretty obvious to me that for the majority of engineers they will only serve as an alternative monitoring option.
Old 15th April 2018
  #95
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I'm loving the LCD-X. Easily the best sounding headphone I've ever heard and they really shine with the Little Labs MONITOR headphone amp.

I liked them so much I bought another pair for my home setup.

I initially thought I'd try the LCD-MX4 for my main room and keep the LCD-X at home but the LCD-MX4 sounds very different. The high end is very subdued. Mike K (3030 Club) also noticed this as he was trying some at the same time as me and it made me listen more closely and even talk to Audeze about it. Audeze claims the LCD-MX4 has the highs rolled off and is voiced different to avoid fatigue in longer listening sessions.

While I don't use the headphones for making EQ decisions, I found the LCD-MX4 hard to enjoy listening to.

I basically use headphones for proofing and quality control of my analog captures as well as issues with all digital work, so I can remove any clicks, pops, crackles, thumps, bumps etc.

The LCD-X are REALLY revealing of any flaws but I would agree that they tend to make just about anything sound good so I wouldn't recommend them for analytical work. That's what my loudspeakers are for but the LCD-X certainly make proofing and quality control way more enjoyable. I don't mind the weight.
Old 15th April 2018
  #96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Marks View Post
For mastering and mixing purposes I strongly recommend trying the Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO. I think that they are excellent for mastering and mixing.

I have compared them to various pro studio headphones and for mastering purposes they are the best choice that I have found. They are very neutral, with a lot of detail and two different alternative earpads included Analytical and Balanced (it is like having two different mastering headphones in one).

These cans are very accurate, neutral and detailed, and also sound great. They allow you to make the best mastering and mixing decisions.

After using them in the studio for mastering and mixing for some weeks I have recently posted a user review on the Beyerdynamic DT1990 PRO headphones based on my experience. I hope that you find it useful.

Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO
I am saving my money for the Beyerdynamic 1990's now. Every review and comment has been very positive on these headphones.
Old 16th April 2018
  #97
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
Since almost everybody listens to headphones nowadays (or iems, or earbuds etc.) it does make sense to also use them for making music. However, in my case, although I did try for 2-3 years to adapt to working on high end headphones, the results I'm getting from a good speaker monitoring setup are significantly better, including when listening on headphones.

I suppose one really needs to tick with headphones, in order to eliminate speakers from their setup, as Glenn Schick did, and it's pretty obvious to me that for the majority of engineers they will only serve as an alternative monitoring option.
Agreed, making decisions with headphones is just WAY harder. But at least the technology is evolving such that its becoming an option.
Old 16th April 2018
  #98
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Originally Posted by Justin P. View Post
I'm loving the LCD-X. Easily the best sounding headphone I've ever heard and they really shine with the Little Labs MONITOR headphone amp.

I liked them so much I bought another pair for my home setup.

I initially thought I'd try the LCD-MX4 for my main room and keep the LCD-X at home but the LCD-MX4 sounds very different. The high end is very subdued. Mike K (3030 Club) also noticed this as he was trying some at the same time as me and it made me listen more closely and even talk to Audeze about it. Audeze claims the LCD-MX4 has the highs rolled off and is voiced different to avoid fatigue in longer listening sessions.

While I don't use the headphones for making EQ decisions, I found the LCD-MX4 hard to enjoy listening to.

I basically use headphones for proofing and quality control of my analog captures as well as issues with all digital work, so I can remove any clicks, pops, crackles, thumps, bumps etc.

The LCD-X are REALLY revealing of any flaws but I would agree that they tend to make just about anything sound good so I wouldn't recommend them for analytical work. That's what my loudspeakers are for but the LCD-X certainly make proofing and quality control way more enjoyable. I don't mind the weight.
Agreed about the MX4, I was disappointed with them when I tested them. I really thought the LCD-X, I$ and 4 were the only real usable ones. The 3s were good too but bright. But NOT in the useful HD600 way.

I got some Audeze LCD-I4s the other day. The imaging and bass are INCREDIBLE. Through Can Opener and Reveal its like listening to speakers. But so far is the same thing, I can't really grasp the high end. I'm trying to learn it because otherwise its one of the most incredible listening experiences I've ever had.

If you haven't tried the HD600 family, its definitely worth a try. The minute I unpacked my 600s I was making correct decisions.
Old 16th April 2018
  #99
DAH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Agreed about the MX4, I was disappointed with them when I tested them. I really thought the LCD-X, I$ and 4 were the only real usable ones. The 3s were good too but bright. But NOT in the useful HD600 way.

I got some Audeze LCD-I4s the other day. The imaging and bass are INCREDIBLE. Through Can Opener and Reveal its like listening to speakers. But so far is the same thing, I can't really grasp the high end. I'm trying to learn it because otherwise its one of the most incredible listening experiences I've ever had.

If you haven't tried the HD600 family, its definitely worth a try. The minute I unpacked my 600s I was making correct decisions.
I concur on HD580#600#650 (the same driver, probably different selection criteria) - straight midbass\mids, but the high-end might vary between the drivers as well as the bass roll-off (talking about like 6 dB difference at 28 Hz, depends on your luck).
In general, the highs will be more linear on even not the most expensive speakers than dynamic headphones, while the low-end and low-mids will be more easily manageable via a simple EQ tweak on the headphones (no room influence).
But when you find the sweet spot with the room\speakers, the sound stage and the 3d realness is just on another level...
Old 17th April 2018
  #100
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ilalin's Avatar
When started mixing the first purchase was Behringer Truth, then Dynaudio BM6A monitors. But, in an untreated room, useless.
Then, the kids came, the studio turned back into a bedroom and I had to be quiet.
Previously an owner of Beyerdynamic DT880 but swapped for Sennheiser HD650 for better bass response and lower THD, as suggested by Sonarworks. Even after the change, I still had a hard time hearing compression, bass, etc. With both plugins engaged, it's night and day.
HD650's with Can Opener and Sonarworks are unbeliavable. Since I got the CO recently, I have an amazing time listening to compression. Yeah, such a nerd, I like to listen to compression now since my ears could not pick it up before (been in this hobby for 20 years) and now I can....so excited!

I can just imagine how exciting it is to work in a well treated room with great monitors ($$$).

Not to derail the thread but if anybody could give me a quick yes or no.
Does having an appropriate headphone amplifier make such a groundbreaking difference as the two mentioned plugs?

Thanks
Old 17th April 2018
  #101
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilalin View Post

Not to derail the thread but if anybody could give me a quick yes or no.
Is having an appropriate headphone amplifier make such a groundbreaking difference as the two mentioned plugs?

Thanks
Yes. Especially with the 650s or super power hungry headphones. I love the Chord Mojo (I like it better than the Avocet headphone amp in certain ways).
Old 17th April 2018
  #102
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ilalin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Yes. Especially with the 650s or super power hungry headphones. I love the Chord Mojo (I like it better than the Avocet headphone amp in certain ways).
Awesome!

Thank you
Old 17th April 2018
  #103
DAH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilalin View Post
Awesome!

Thank you
I did not use the aforementioned plugins (tried the sonarworks), but I can tell you that an amplifier will not change frequency response as much as those eqing plugins. Not talking about any crosfeed. I have recently bought a cheap USB DAC based on ES9018k2m with a dedicated AD823 headphone amp and can tell you that levelwise it did not make any difference compared to the line level RCA outputs, and soundwise it degrades the signal, so think twice before adding a component to the chain. Headphones HD580.

Last edited by DAH; 17th April 2018 at 10:06 PM..
Old 18th April 2018
  #104
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I really don't like the idea of using plug ins to correct headphones. Just get good headphones and a good headphone amp.

That's like trying to correct your room with software instead of getting it properly tuned by a professional.
Old 18th April 2018
  #105
OMU
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It's a completely different thing. On one hand headphones are in a much higher need of correcting their FR, OTOH there's no room in the equation, so it's much easier to achieve a more balance response.

Of course, one has to know what they're doing.
Old 27th April 2018
  #106
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01010110's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
My fascination with headphones ticked up a notch after reading up on Glenn Schick. My friend who is an A level nut said Glenn delivered the best master he has ever heard. I'm not leaving my monitors anytime soon but "the times they are a changin."

Glenn Schick Mastering
I read about him and his new mobile mastering setup a few years ago and that made me order my Angies and a bunch of other headphones + start experimenting with DSP stuff for emulating speakers etc. Today I have no problem doing a full master on headphones while travelling, even though I still prefer to sit in my "cave" with a some nice full range towers and a ridiculous amount of hardware in front of me.

Anyways, when I read about him a few years ago I'm almost sure that it said he used custom JH Audio IEMs, but I can't find that text anymore. Now I can only find pictures of him with Sony MDR V6. Maybe he downgraded or maybe it's just for show?
Old 27th April 2018
  #107
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Benoit D's Avatar
 

This kind of marketing reminds me a situation ten years ago, when Richie Hawtin was saying «*vinyl is dead, you only need a computer, only dead fishes follow the stream, the futur is now, bla bla bla*». Oh wait... Ten years later, vinyl is cool again ? People love to buy vinyl ? Labels want to press vinyl ? But where is Richie Hawtin ??

You can’t have final statement like this. You can’t say people are doing bull**** just because you choose to do something different.

Whoever is this Glenn Schick, I’ll never trust a sound ingineer who have such an unequivocal state of mind.
Old 27th April 2018
  #108
Gear Head
 

B&W P7

Love them, great for spotting clicks across the spectrum and minute adjustments when stuck by the limitations of my room's acoustics.
Clearly more detailed than my former Focal pro.
On top of it price wise they are affordable so they are a good compromise imho.
Old 27th April 2018
  #109
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit D View Post
This kind of marketing reminds me a situation ten years ago, when Richie Hawtin was saying «*vinyl is dead, you only need a computer, only dead fishes follow the stream, the futur is now, bla bla bla*». Oh wait... Ten years later, vinyl is cool again ? People love to buy vinyl ? Labels want to press vinyl ? But where is Richie Hawtin ??

You can’t have final statement like this. You can’t say people are doing bull**** just because you choose to do something different.

Whoever is this Glenn Schick, I’ll never trust a sound ingineer who have such an unequivocal state of mind.
Maybe you should check his discography. I doubt there are many on this board with the credits that he has. The world never changes if people keep doing things the same way they've always been done.
Old 27th April 2018
  #110
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010110 View Post
I read about him and his new mobile mastering setup a few years ago and that made me order my Angies and a bunch of other headphones + start experimenting with DSP stuff for emulating speakers etc. Today I have no problem doing a full master on headphones while travelling, even though I still prefer to sit in my "cave" with a some nice full range towers and a ridiculous amount of hardware in front of me.

Anyways, when I read about him a few years ago I'm almost sure that it said he used custom JH Audio IEMs, but I can't find that text anymore. Now I can only find pictures of him with Sony MDR V6. Maybe he downgraded or maybe it's just for show?
I think its JH audio too but I'm not sure. I figured Layla but I've read so many conflicting reports about the flatness of those. I'll have to check out the Angies!
Old 27th April 2018
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I think its JH audio too but I'm not sure. I figured Layla but I've read so many conflicting reports about the flatness of those. I'll have to check out the Angies!
It would be very interesting to compare the Angies to the LCD-i4. I've planned to do so within a few weeks. I've also located a pair of Layla universals which I hope to try at the same time
Old 27th April 2018
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010110 View Post
It would be very interesting to compare the Angies to the LCD-i4. I've planned to do so within a few weeks. I've also located a pair of Layla universals which I hope to try at the same time
I4s are amazing, but I'm not sure they have the top details I need. Still wrestling with that. The low end is incredible however, like as good as any speaker I've ever heard. So I'd keep them and get something else. But they aren't a 1 stop shop.
Old 27th April 2018
  #113
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Benoit D's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Maybe you should check his discography. I doubt there are many on this board with the credits that he has. The world never changes if people keep doing things the same way they've always been done.
I’m not saying he is right or wrong doing things differently, I’m just reacting over the post asking «*is Sony V6 here only for the show ?*». I went to the website and saw this statement in the «*About*» section :

«*Old Rules Don't Apply......
We are not like other studios. No Studio room. No Speakers. No Bullsh*t. We had been one of the premier analog mastering studios in the US for the past 20 years. The best rooms, speakers, and gear money could buy. But now, we've developed something better. The future is now.*»

Generaly speaking I don’t like people claiming they do something better just because it’s different.

But again, I’m not judging his work, just the marketing.
Old 27th April 2018
  #114
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chet.d's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I4s are amazing, but I'm not sure they have the top details I need. Still wrestling with that. The low end is incredible however, like as good as any speaker I've ever heard. So I'd keep them and get something else. But they aren't a 1 stop shop.
Such a common Audeze theme isn’t it!?
I continue to wrestle w the LCDX for the upper mid - lower top recession but, can’t yet give up on them for their palpable strengths.
Have yet to more fully try any correction sw.
Old 27th April 2018
  #115
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit D View Post
I’m not saying he is right or wrong doing things differently, I’m just reacting over the post asking «*is Sony V6 here only for the show ?*». I went to the website and saw this statement in the «*About*» section :

«*Old Rules Don't Apply......
We are not like other studios. No Studio room. No Speakers. No Bullsh*t. We had been one of the premier analog mastering studios in the US for the past 20 years. The best rooms, speakers, and gear money could buy. But now, we've developed something better. The future is now.*»

Generaly speaking I don’t like people claiming they do something better just because it’s different.

But again, I’m not judging his work, just the marketing.
Gotcha. I think if you are doing something that radically different you have to overcome a lot of initial skepticism. And he might actually be making better masters now than he was when he was all analog in his studio. So I can understand the marketing completely.
Old 27th April 2018
  #116
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet.d View Post
Such a common Audeze theme isn’t it!?
I continue to wrestle w the LCDX for the upper mid - lower top recession but, can’t yet give up on them for their palpable strengths.
Have yet to more fully try any correction sw.
Yes, as Teebaoum said they have yet to really make a headphone perfectly suited for our work. These ones I have are SO close.

You must try software correction. It brings them much closer. The I4s need a lot of help, the LCD-X less so. But they do sound way better with both Reveal and Sonarworks.
Old 27th April 2018
  #117
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb View Post
still using the Alessandro Grado Music Series One headphones for many years... 15 perhaps.

Eric Johnson’s engineer Richard Mullen brought them over one day about 2002, raving about them.

they’re $100, and sound just great, very flat.

although after few years of daily use they tend to wear out, I’m on my 5th pair.

also using the Benchmark DAC1 as HP amplifier.

spending 1500$ on a pair of Audeze seems ludicrous to me,

but to each his own...

Alessandro MS1 Review

Alessandro Products | Headphones

best, jt

p.s. all that said, I’ve got great Dunlavy Monitors and Stereo Subs, and don’t rely on headphones for EQ decisions.
Hey Jerry- You may want to try e-Grados for any kind of sports/mobile activity. Surprisingly comfy and the same drivers as the 60's. Seem very balanced and I think sound fantastic.... For $50- a steal..... Very durable also....
Old 27th April 2018
  #118
OMU
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I think its JH audio too but I'm not sure. I figured Layla but I've read so many conflicting reports about the flatness of those. I'll have to check out the Angies!
He said JH Audio at that time and IIRC Layla/Angie were released at a slightly later date than the interview in question. He mentioned he uses 'several' (or 'some') custom JH IEMs, so I assumed he was using Roxanne (the JH flagship at that time) and probably JH 13 (which many people used to say are pretty balanced).

The key word here being 'several', due to the 'inherent' nonlinear fr response of headphones, which obviously made him need more than one pair to be able to judge objectively what he was hearing.

I personally love the idea and admire him for succeeding in that, however, when listening to some of his recent masters I couldn't help but to notice a bit of flatness to the sound, which is exactly what headphones can do to a mix or a master. I immediately heard it because I recognised that 'side effect' which headphones gave me too when I was trying to adapt to a similar setup. Other than that his masters are indeed balanced and clean, just not the most exciting, for my taste at least.
Old 27th April 2018
  #119
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
He said JH Audio at that time and IIRC Layla/Angie were released at a slightly later date than the interview in question. He mentioned he uses 'several' (or 'some') custom JH IEMs, so I assumed he was using Roxanne (the JH flagship at that time) and probably JH 13 (which many people used to say are pretty balanced).

The key word here being 'several', due to the 'inherent' nonlinear fr response of headphones, which obviously made him need more than one pair to be able to judge objectively what he was hearing.

I personally love the idea and admire him for succeeding in that, however, when listening to some of his recent masters I couldn't help but to notice a bit of flatness to the sound, which is exactly what headphones can do to a mix or a master. I immediately heard it because I recognised that 'side effect' which headphones gave me too when I was trying to adapt to a similar setup. Other than that his masters are indeed balanced and clean, just not the most exciting, for my taste at least.
I bet hes a Head-Fi member. Trying to keep up with the latest greatest IEM is a headache. I would imagine he's tried a lot since those interviews. And yes, seems like one would need multiple pairs to fill in the gaps.

Agree, hard to get the space/depth right with headphones. The I4s I'm using are great in that way, they have a great sense of space and its easy to tell when something flattens the image. Can Opener helps too.
Old 27th April 2018
  #120
OMU
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Interesting. I've never used planars, only dynamic and BAs, but ultimately the proof is in the product delivered. Right now I settled to a pair of Amphion Two18s/Amp500 + Solaris setup, while only occasionally checking stuff on Layla (heavily eq-ed) + MOJO when walking or before sleeping and even rarer on the AKG k3003.

I used to have a Beyer T1 but sold it after getting Layla. Never tried planars because of the lack of detail. I4 sounds interesting but, unless one needs absolute mobility, them being open makes little sense compared to full sized HPs. Speaking of, I am curious about the new Focal Clear but the small stereo image reviewers seem to unanimously notice, makes them less appealing to me. The reason I sold the T1 was exactly because Layla sounded bigger.
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