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What are your favorite headphones in the mastering room. Studio Headphones
Old 4 weeks ago
  #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
This is headed in the same direction as the 'fade-in' thread (circus) regarding 3D depth plugins.

Lets avoid that—as this thread is useful—by acknowledging the simplicity of the situation: an anonymous GS member (an alias of course: 9 posts to his/her name, 7 of them in this thread) can't mix/master with headphones. Others can (arf) and do.

Done!

P.S. Ignore list is your friend.
Does the number of posts have anything to do with this? Up to now I only hear claims of other engineers being repeated. How do you personally get the balance right between the three areas from subsonic to 40Hz, 40Hz to 100Hz and from 100Hz to 200 Hz on headphones alone? Please explain this in detail. Then this thread is even more useful.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #452
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I would like to hear from all who participate in the thread. How do you who mix and master on headphones alone get the balance right between the three areas from subsonic to 40Hz, 40Hz to 100Hz and from 100Hz to 200 Hz? Please explain in detail. Then this thread will be even more useful.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #453
OMU
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I hear things and make them sound good. I never think that way. If something is in excess I reduce that, if it's lacking I'm boosting. Every single mix starts from a completely different point. No idea how one can have a standard way of working those octaves, to me that's simplistic thinking.

If I mix something on headphones, I check the result on speakers. After adjusting the mix on speakers I check back on headphones. After doing this 'ping-pong' for some time, I began to understand how things translate from headphones to speakers. Usually speakers make me go more for impact and headphones for precise panning and balanced low end.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by art felton View Post
Does the number of posts have anything to do with this? Up to now I only hear claims of other engineers being repeated. How do you personally get the balance right between the three areas from subsonic to 40Hz, 40Hz to 100Hz and from 100Hz to 200 Hz on headphones alone? Please explain this in detail. Then this thread is even more useful.
I think this discussion is useful if you do not make claims that are personal to you and then make them a fact for all people. Other engineers use headphones to mix and master, why don’t you just go and listen to Andrew Schepps talk about it, it’s not hard to find online. Then, if you can agree it’s not a conspiracy funded by headphone manufacturers, perhaps we can have a useful discussion. Until then i’m not sure there’s much useful discussion to be had.

Mixing bass on headphones comes down to intimate experience of those headphones and how they translate. Why not ask Andrew Schepps how he mixed the bass on the Low Roar album, then you’ll hear from an extremely experienced and talented Grammy award winning mixer how he does it. The answer has already been given to you however, he knows the headphones inside and out and how they translate. Give him any other headphones and he has no idea where he is, knowing the 7506’s has come from a couple of decades working with them. You can mix and master in headphones if you know the headphones and how they translate.

Last edited by kedbear; 4 weeks ago at 04:09 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kedbear View Post
I think this discussion is useful if you do not make claims that are personal to you and then make them a fact for all people. Other engineers use headphones to mix and master, why don’t you just go and listen to Andrew Schepps talk about it, it’s not hard to find online. Then, if you can agree it’s not a conspiracy funded by headphone manufacturers, perhaps we can have a useful discussion. Until then i’m not sure there’s much useful discussion to be had.

Mixing bass on headphones comes down to intimate experience of those headphones and how they translate. Why not ask Andrew Schepps how he mixed the bass on the Low Roar album, then you’ll hear from an extremely experienced and talented Grammy award winning mixer how he does it. The answer has already been given to you however, he knows the headphones inside and out and how they translate. Give him any other headphones and he has no idea where he is, knowing the 7506’s has come from a couple
of decades working with them. You can mix and master in headphones if you know the headphones and how they translate.
I do not mean to condescend. Andrew Schepps is able to do it, but I do not wish to spend twenty years of my life to get used to a Sony headphone. I use NS-10M, a mono Mixcube, fullrange speakers and headphones for a reason. Each tool offers a different, but equally important image. It is impossible to properly judge what is going on in a recording below 20Hz on headphones for the obvious reason that we cannot hear this range, we can only feel it. The area between 20Hz and about 40Hz is as much a physical experience as it is audible. On headphones you hear the range between 20Hz and 200Hz all at once which makes it difficult to judge whether you have too much level below 100Hz or not enough level from 100Hz to 200Hz. You can develop a technique with a high-pass filter at 100Hz to mimic a Mixcube to get a better idea of what is going on, but I prefer a mono aural reference for this. When it comes to bass for instance depending on the notes a bass player chooses to play you have to make a clear distinction between fundamental and second harmonic. The second harmonic partial may be all you can hear on a mixcube. It is often a good idea to raise level in a bass recording between 100Hz and 200Hz and to lower it below 100Hz. The first harmonic partial in other words the fundamental will otherwise be too loud on fullrange speakers provided you have enough level on a mixcube. Mastering Engineers will tell you that many mixes are lacking in that respect and that they need to equalize rather heavily to get the low end right. If you have headphones and a technique you are confident to work with by all means do it. I can only talk from my own experience. I never used the term conspiracy. It is just plain old fashioned and perfectly legal marketing.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #456
OMU
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Glenn Schick is doing it for quite some time now. Of course there are many others who are less known and, most probably, don't do the job on headphones only, the way he does.

It's a minority because headphones are just beginning to be able to offer a viable alternative for studio monitoring. I've been a headphone enthusiast for the last 8 years, used some high end items, tried to learn them, had some success, but it was not until I had the new Audeze in-ears that I felt I could confidently use them to do serious work. I'd still keep a pair of speakers around, even if I had to be completely mobile, but that's me and maybe in the years to come we'll witness some spectacular releases in the headphone world.

Also, since the percentage of listeners using headphones is huge compared to those listening to speakers (around 90% IIRC), I believe it is possible that things could change in the future, regarding how music is made and even engineered.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
I've been a headphone enthusiast for the last 8 years, used some high end items, tried to learn them, had some success, but it was not until I had the new Audeze in-ears that I felt I could confidently use them to do serious work. I'd still keep a pair of speakers around, even if I had to be completely mobile, but that's me and maybe in the years to come we'll witness some spectacular releases in the headphone world.
I like the look of those flagship in-ear Audeze for travel/work. What have you compared them to?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #458
OMU
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I've had Layla (universal version) since their release, tried to use them (they were marketed as mastering IEMs, a horrid joke IMO) and finally gave up.

Then at some point I stumbled upon the iSine 20 and was really impressed by those, so I had to hear the i4. I also wanted to check the Shure KSE1500 which I found to be ridiculously boosted in the treble range, pretty much like Layla is, to the point that everything sounded bad on them, while I found the i4 a lot more natural and spacious. I also compared them vs Focal Clear and those sounded small and bland to me. There was no contest really, but of course, that's only my opinion. Some could probably find the opposite to be true, but to me i4 was the clear winner and ended up hooked to my Solaris. On a side note, I also love the fact that I can use them with my iPad, through that Cipher cable, and be able to decently eq them for listening to Apple Music and such on that device.

What I want to emphasize is that IME there's no headphone that is even remotely usable in mixing without proper correction. I prefer to do the eq myself (that Audeze plugin is a joke), until they sound the way I expect them to (and compare the results to my speakers). After doing that, I found the i4 leaving me nothing more to desire. But yeah, one has to work a bit to make a headphone sound the way they should in the first place. The idea of 'learning' headphones is to me a bit stupid, or at least unproductive, since they can be incredibly uneven in their response, no matter the price, compared to speakers.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
I like the look of those flagship in-ear Audeze for travel/work. What have you compared them to?
The i4s are worth a listen. I miss mine. They have the BEST low end response I’ve heard of any playback system ever. That includes full range mastering speakers or what have you. Just astoundingly great and accurate low end down below what humans can hear. I couldn’t trust the upper mids, they felt too far away from me. But that aspect is learnable. I might buy a pair if they ever get b stocks in stock again.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #460
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Cheers fellas. I'll keep an eye out for a used pair in the EU perhaps.

I've been experimenting with a home grown EQ for the Clears (using Equilibrium in analog mode with long impulse), but will likely still get them individually calibrated at Sonarworks.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Cheers fellas. I'll keep an eye out for a used pair in the EU perhaps.

I've been experimenting with a home grown EQ for the Clears (using Equilibrium in analog mode with long impulse), but will likely still get them individually calibrated at Sonarworks.
Please let us know how it goes...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riccardo View Post
Please let us know how it goes...
Will do, I'm on the road the first half of March so will have them ready and waiting upon my return. Should time very well!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #463
OMU
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If you're patient you can get them used around 1500 euros. While I think they are overpriced (new), they are surely worth 1.5k.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #464
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Focal Utopia headphones I could master confidently on.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk View Post
Focal Utopia headphones I could master confidently on.
You use eq correction with those? I never heard them. Kinda peaky in the 6k range I hear.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #466
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Has anyone here tried the Focal Stellia's yet?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #467
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Originally Posted by Bodhifile View Post
Has anyone here tried the Focal Stellia's yet?
Personally I'd never spend that on closed back headphones, and if travelling I'd opt for something smaller and more portable (Audeze IEMs for example).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Personally I'd never spend that on closed back headphones, and if travelling I'd opt for something smaller and more portable (Audeze IEMs for example).
Focal has the Elegia in their closed back range "sans mortgage" Anybody heard those by any chance? Audeze IEM's could be definitely good for coach, tour bus, plane, train duties if they weren't so expensive (at least new...)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #469
OMU
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No, unfortunately Audeze IEMs are not for that kind of portability. They have this unique open back IEM design.

They're just small, so you can carry them more easily, but for listening on train, bus or plane... completely useless. I bought a pair of Sine (the closed back on-ears) for outdoors use. I would still have a hard time using them on a plane tough, but can't go back to dynamic or BA designs after the 'planar' experience.

The Shure electrostats could also work for that (if they too weren't so expensive); TBH I wouldn't hesitate going for them if I'd stumble upon a really good deal on them. I only hope the included eq can do enough (I believe it only offers 4 bands) to make them sound usable.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
No, unfortunately Audeze IEMs are not for that kind of portability. They have this unique open back IEM design.

They're just small, so you can carry them more easily, but for listening on train, bus or plane... completely useless. I bought a pair of Sine (the closed back on-ears) for outdoors use. I would still have a hard time using them on a plane tough, but can't go back to dynamic or BA designs after the 'planar' experience.

The Shure electrostats could also work for that (if they too weren't so expensive); TBH I wouldn't hesitate going for them if I'd stumble upon a really good deal on them. I only hope the included eq can do enough (I believe it only offers 4 bands) to make them sound usable.
To expand on what is said here, the Audeze IEMs are WORSE for isolated listening than open ear headphones. I get more isolation from my Focal Clears than I did from the Audeze IEM. But the size is very attractive.

Sending my Shures to Sonarworks right now. I'll let you know how they turn out!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #471
OMU
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Yes, please do. I'm very curious how it will turn out.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #472
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Just a slight digression but if anybody is willing to go into Focal Utopia (price wise) territory and forget "portability" I am then still waiting to hear somebody with real world experience of top of the line Stax in a professional mastering context.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #473
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Bob Katz has written extensively on this subject on his blog at Innerfidelity.

His favourites are LCD-4 and SR-007, which seem to be on the same level, although he left me with the impression he slightly favours the LCD-4. I remember reading in another of his articles that after eq-ing the two headphones, they sounded strikingly similar, can't remember which 'episode'.

Katz's Corner Episode 18: Icelandic Wonder Page 2 | InnerFidelity

He wrote two other articles (13 and 14), where LCD-4 and Utopia are compared. Also, in Episode 16 he begins with a short conclusion on this subject:

"Episodes 13 and 14, The Big Shootout, generated a lot of controversy in the headphone community. As you may recall, in Episode 13, I picked the Audeze LCD-4 over the Focal Utopia, and it was a very clear victory. The Utopia sounded bright, thin, and edgy, especially compared to the smooth and natural-sounding LCD-4."

On the subject of 'portability', I would emphasize that LCDi4 are portable only because their small size. They sound bigger than many over-ear headphones.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riccardo View Post
Just a slight digression but if anybody is willing to go into Focal Utopia (price wise) territory and forget "portability" I am then still waiting to hear somebody with real world experience of top of the line Stax in a professional mastering context.
I used Stax for ages. I tested out all of them and all the amps and found the entry level Stax headphone was flatter than the others. Can't remember all the units numbers.

They paired well with the top transistor amp. So not super expensive.

That said the focal clear and Utopia smokes all the Stax range. Stax have plenty of transient details upper mids and highs but are too slow in the bass for any details.

Focal are fantastic in transient details from top to bottom. Stax take about a year to burn in vs a few weeks for the focal.

I sold my Stax headphone within 10 minutes of listening to my son's focal clear pro's.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk View Post
I used Stax for ages. I tested out all of them and all the amps and found the entry level Stax headphone was flatter than the others. Can't remember all the units numbers.

They paired well with the top transistor amp. So not super expensive.

That said the focal clear and Utopia smokes all the Stax range. Stax have plenty of transient details upper mids and highs but are too slow in the bass for any details.

Focal are fantastic in transient details from top to bottom. Stax take about a year to burn in vs a few weeks for the focal.

I sold my Stax headphone within 10 minutes of listening to my son's focal clear pro's.

Thanks, I will give the Focals a listen when time permits.
Cheers!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #476
adl
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I got a question:
i currently have the DT 1990 Pro (use am with Sonarworks to make em more linear) and i really like the overall sound, the bass response etc.
Now i was wondering if the AKG 812 or the Focal Clear Professional would be a major step up for me. I use em mostly for mixing and want to translate my (headphone) mixes better to monitors and speakers in general. I got Adam A7 speakers with the Adam 8 Sub and the DT 1990 Pro really helped big time to improve the translation from headphones to speakers. Just am wondering if the AKG 812 or Focal would bring me even further.
I know the Focals Clear Professional are a different price range, that´s why i am hesitating regarding the AKG, as they are in a more similar price range with the DT 1990 Pro.
Anybody compared those 3 and could tell me his thoughts? Thanks!

I know this is the "Mastering Headphone" thread but i got note about the DT 1990 Pro through this thread and they helped me a lot regarding my mixing, that´s why i am asking here.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #477
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Originally Posted by adl View Post
You got any other headphones you are going to try next?
Sennheiser HD 6XX on the way. I'm not aiming for perfection. I'm just hoping for usable without correction.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #478
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It is a pity that there are not more shops like this.

K55.ch - Dein Sound, wo Du willst. Fachgeschaft fur MP3-Player, Digitalradios, Internetradios, Kopfhorer, iPhone-Zubehor usw. Laden in Zurich, Webshop. - K55 MP3 Shop

Instead of a never ending hunt for the 'best headset' it might be a good idea to visit a shop similar to K55.
Here I will audition all the headphones I am interested in one after the other.

Audeze LCD-3, offener Kopfhorer (110 Ohm), Magnetostat (Zebrano / Leder) - K55 MP3 Shop
AKG K812, offener Kopfhorer (36 Ohm), Dynamisch - K55 MP3 Shop
Beyerdynamic T5p 2. Generation, High-End Kopfhorer geschlossen (32 Ohm) - K55 MP3 Shop
Focal Clear, offener Kopfhorer 55 Ohm, Dynamisch - K55 MP3 Shop
https://www.k55.ch/grado-ps1000e-pro...nal-serie.html

Imagine buying and then selling all these at a loss. A trip to a similar shop seems cheap in comparison.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #479
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To mix and to master I use a combination of near-field monitors, full range speaker systems and headphones. I find that each gives me some useful information. Relying on just one does not provide me with the full picture of what I want to know.

As far as headphones, I use a selection of headphones, usually three from the following heaphones that I have. I choose them depending on the source and what I am particularly interested in listening for.

Focal Clear
Focal Elegia
Focal Elex
Audeze LCD x
Sennheiser HD580
Philips x2
Brainwavz Alara

Today I will be receiving a pair of the new Neumann NDH 20 headphones. I am mostly interesting in these for tracking vocals, but will also be interested to see how they work for mixing.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teashea View Post

I choose them depending on the source and what I am particularly interested in listening for.

Focal Clear
Focal Elegia
Focal Elex
Audeze LCD x
Sennheiser HD580
Philips x2
Brainwavz Alara
Can you please extol the virtues of each?

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