The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
What are your favorite headphones in the mastering room. Studio Headphones
Old 16th January 2019
  #361
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthbalance View Post
Ok great, thanks thermos and b0se for the very helpful advice ! I need to really find out about sonar works and can opener, and figure out what the Clears and those 2 add ons plus a decent amp will cost.
Any sonic difference between the Focal Clear and the Clear Pro ?

b0se, weren’t you about to give a set of Audio Technica phones a whirl ? Looking forward to your findings.

I'd really like an easy & awesome portable pro tools hd mix rig soon. Along with 3 more headphones for clients to hang and listen.
For that high end hotel suite overlooking the ocean experience :-)
Burning them in as we speak. For the price, they're actually very good. Don't take EQ well though, using them as-is is a must.

No difference between Clear and Clear Pro bar the colour and accessories. I went for the normal clear as I wanted the XLR cable (which you don't get in the pro version!).
Old 17th January 2019
  #362
Gear Maniac
 

I'm wondering what determine technically or what it means exactly it doesn't take eqing very good?
Old 17th January 2019
  #363
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouHuman View Post
I'm wondering what determine technically or what it means exactly it doesn't take eqing very good?
It's a limitation of the transducer. Imagine pushing 6dB at 80Hz to NS10's. you're not going to add any bass, just mess the output up by pushing the driver way past it operating spec (comfort zone). It's also about the speed/accuracy of the driver - without that you just get bloated/overlapping frequencies. Speed = definition and sharp transients.

On the subject of Clear vs R70x - there's no contest to my ears. The Clears are—surprisingly?—much clearer. I can see how the Clear's without the EQ wouldn't sit with some, but I'd still class the headphone as better (technically).

The Clears with EQ are phenomenal. I've been mixing and producing with them that way for the last few hours and I'm hooked. I won't be using them without EQ again, as as thermos says, you can flip to your speakers and the difference is marginal.

The R70x has a fuller sound (both sans EQ), but its phat. In a bad way. There's no definition in the lows and the soundscape is congested and blurry. The Clears on the other hand have no problem isolating elements and frequencies. In fact they're damn good at that. Noon/Shpongle on both is quite literally night and day with regards to capability.

R70x vs H800. Honestly, I think I'd take the R70xs. They're very capable headphone for the money and the money you save you could get a decent amp with - they need a powerful amp! The R70x though the Prism Lyra out is poor compared to the Vio V281. Don't expect to be able to mix on them like you could with top end monitors.

Very happy with the Kii/Clear combo, I can now work late into the night and not have to piss about he next day (on full system) tweaking everything from the night before. It's not a perfect translation, but it's close enough.

Hunt = over.

Who wants some LCD-2s or HD800s?

Last edited by b0se; 17th January 2019 at 01:14 PM..
Old 17th January 2019
  #364
Gear Head
 
Bodhifile's Avatar
I'm loving the Clear's (silver version) with Sonarworks just for reference. I feel like it collapses the stereo image a little too much overall on headphones and monitors (probably due to the phase shifting).

bOse, that's funny you got the Clear's too, I see your post's often. Seems like we have similar taste between Lyra 2, Silver Bullet, Nebula, Acustica, Cranborne, and now Focal, haha. My search has been over as well since the Clears.
Old 17th January 2019
  #365
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
bose, so it sounds like they are in the M50X family, but open and better? Thanks for the update!

BTW, for anyone who cares I run my Clears with the ifi black label mini. Portable, but better than the Mojo.
Old 17th January 2019
  #366
Lives for gear
 

Anyone able to speak to Clear vs Elear?

You may recall I said *very* similar things about the Elears that are being said about the Clears...

Elears are available for an excellent price since Clears were released.. I, for one, would love to hear from someone if they compared both using SW.

My gut is that SW would bridge much of the difference in the two. But then again, I *want* to believe that since I’m in no hurry to shell out more money, having bought Elear only a year ago.

Anyone with direct, actual experience comparing?
Old 17th January 2019
  #367
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
Anyone able to speak to Clear vs Elear?

You may recall I said *very* similar things about the Elears that are being said about the Clears...

Elears are available for an excellent price since Clears were released.. I, for one, would love to hear from someone if they compared both using SW.

My gut is that SW would bridge much of the difference in the two. But then again, I *want* to believe that since I’m in no hurry to shell out more money, having bought Elear only a year ago.

Anyone with direct, actual experience comparing?
I read that Elear with eq correction sounds similar to Clear without eq correction. Basically, the Clear is closer to flat and fixed a lot of the eq weirdness of the Elear.
Old 17th January 2019
  #368
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I read that Elear with eq correction sounds similar to Clear without eq correction. Basically, the Clear is closer to flat and fixed a lot of the eq weirdness of the Elear.
Well, that’s certainly what I’d want to hear! Thanks!

Fairly easy to find some Elears for $600 usd... just a thought for anyone who the difference in price would matter to.

I use them, SW, ISOL8, and SampleMagicAB and have never been happier for critical comparison.

For what it’s worth...
Old 17th January 2019
  #369
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
Well, that’s certainly what I’d want to hear! Thanks!

Fairly easy to find some Elears for $600 usd... just a thought for anyone who the difference in price would matter to.

I use them, SW, ISOL8, and SampleMagicAB and have never been happier for critical comparison.

For what it’s worth...
Clears can be found for 1k now, so not far off.
Old 17th January 2019
  #370
Gear Head
 
Bodhifile's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
Well, that’s certainly what I’d want to hear! Thanks!

Fairly easy to find some Elears for $600 usd... just a thought for anyone who the difference in price would matter to.

I use them, SW, ISOL8, and SampleMagicAB and have never been happier for critical comparison.

For what it’s worth...
There's a Massdrop for Elex's (Elear with Clear pads basically) for $699. I'd go with them over the Elears. Looks like there's another 11 hrs on the drop now. I think Clear's are worth the extra though.
Old 17th January 2019
  #371
adl
Gear Addict
 
adl's Avatar
 

I wonder if anybody has ever compared the Sonarworks reference + Sennheiser HD 650 bundle (where they include a Sennheiser HD 650 and you get a specific massered curve for this particular HD 650 model to make it most linear) and a normal Beyerdynamic 1990 Pro with analytical earpads and the standard curve for the 1990s pro, which is implemented in Sonarworks Reference.
I am asking as someone is selling the Sonarworks + calibrated Sennheiser Bundle and I am not sure if that would be even better than my current Sonarworks + Beyerdynamic 1990 Pro setup, where I use the standard curve.
First world problems at its finest....
Old 17th January 2019
  #372
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhifile View Post
There's a Massdrop for Elex's (Elear with Clear pads basically) for $699. I'd go with them over the Elears. Looks like there's another 11 hrs on the drop now. I think Clear's are worth the extra though.
That’s a very attractive price!

For me, again I’d have a hard time justifying the purchase since I own the Elears...

Likewise I wonder if SW would do profiles for Massdrop models, or if other profiles would fit Massdrop models well enough to work. I have doubts about both...
Old 17th January 2019
  #373
adl
Gear Addict
 
adl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Burning them in as we speak. For the price, they're actually very good. Don't take EQ well though, using them as-is is a must.

No difference between Clear and Clear Pro bar the colour and accessories. I went for the normal clear as I wanted the XLR cable (which you don't get in the pro version!).
Care to share how you exactely you burn em in? Pink Noise in a loop? Did you create a file yourself or is there a file to download somewhere?
Thanks for a short hint!
Old 17th January 2019
  #374
DAH
Lives for gear
 
DAH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by adl View Post
Care to share how you exactely you burn em in? Pink Noise in a loop? Did you create a file yourself or is there a file to download somewhere?
Thanks for a short hint!
Do not be to anal about it, play whatever you have available.
Old 17th January 2019
  #375
adl
Gear Addict
 
adl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adl View Post
Care to share how you exactely you burn em in? Pink Noise in a loop? Did you create a file yourself or is there a file to download somewhere?
Thanks for a short hint!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH View Post
Do not be to anal about it, play whatever you have available.
I actually found 10 hours (!) of pink noise with black screen on youtube (in HD!):
YouTube

In the description burn in for headphones is even mentioned.
Old 17th January 2019
  #376
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I just left a tidal playlist on loop. Pink noise works also, all that matters is you keep the drivers moving.
Old 18th January 2019
  #377
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Not heard the 1990s, looking forward to your thoughts.
1990's arrived. Right out of the box, mounted with analytical pads: b r i g h t I'll feed them audio for the next couple of days and then we shall see.

On the very short listen I gave them, there are clear standouts: I've never heard my reference tracks with this clean bass. I can "navigate" around in the entire low-end area and pick out everything with ease. Promising! Also, there is a "swiftness" to the audio image with these. It may be helped or caused by the brightness, but it feels like a very sensitive and willing driver, just waiting to reproduce what's fed to it with no sluggishness, no distortion, no hesitation. Very dynamic.

Btw. this is using the built-in hp amp on an Audient iD14 interface. I'm looking into other options, but any improvement must be substantial before I shell out more money on this.

One more thing: The average Sonarworks correction for the 1990's sounds VERY promising with my pair.

Early days still
Old 18th January 2019
  #378
adl
Gear Addict
 
adl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Hjortnaes View Post
1990's arrived. Right out of the box, mounted with analytical pads: b r i g h t I'll feed them audio for the next couple of days and then we shall see.

On the very short listen I gave them, there are clear standouts: I've never heard my reference tracks with this clean bass. I can "navigate" around in the entire low-end area and pick out everything with ease. Promising! Also, there is a "swiftness" to the audio image with these. It may be helped or caused by the brightness, but it feels like a very sensitive and willing driver, just waiting to reproduce what's fed to it with no sluggishness, no distortion, no hesitation. Very dynamic.

Btw. this is using the built-in hp amp on an Audient iD14 interface. I'm looking into other options, but any improvement must be substantial before I shell out more money on this.

One more thing: The average Sonarworks correction for the 1990's sounds VERY promising with my pair.

Early days still
Glad you are impressed as well! I did some mixes with mine and they translated so well, it´s sheer amazing. No more boomy bass or too sharp highs. I can EQ so precisely with the DT1990 Pro and Fabfilter Pro-Q3, my mixes are so much more balanced and "clean" sounding. No more overlapping and clashing frequencys as i finally HEAR where to cut or boost or how much reverb is enough and where to cut the reverb frequenzy wise as well. Sonarworks also really helps to smooth out those brightness which you mentioned (the so called "Beyerdynamic Peak").

Man, i am so happy i bought those headphones and Sonarworks, easily the best 600€ i spend!
Old 18th January 2019
  #379
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Sounds good! Glad they're looking promising for you. Let us know if/how the sound changes after a couple of days burn in.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #380
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
It's a limitation of the transducer. Imagine pushing 6dB at 80Hz to NS10's. you're not going to add any bass, just mess the output up by pushing the driver way past it operating spec (comfort zone). It's also about the speed/accuracy of the driver - without that you just get bloated/overlapping frequencies. Speed = definition and sharp transients.

On the subject of Clear vs R70x - there's no contest to my ears. The Clears are—surprisingly?—much clearer. I can see how the Clear's without the EQ wouldn't sit with some, but I'd still class the headphone as better (technically).

The Clears with EQ are phenomenal. I've been mixing and producing with them that way for the last few hours and I'm hooked. I won't be using them without EQ again, as as thermos says, you can flip to your speakers and the difference is marginal.

The R70x has a fuller sound (both sans EQ), but its phat. In a bad way. There's no definition in the lows and the soundscape is congested and blurry. The Clears on the other hand have no problem isolating elements and frequencies. In fact they're damn good at that. Noon/Shpongle on both is quite literally night and day with regards to capability.

R70x vs H800. Honestly, I think I'd take the R70xs. They're very capable headphone for the money and the money you save you could get a decent amp with - they need a powerful amp! The R70x though the Prism Lyra out is poor compared to the Vio V281. Don't expect to be able to mix on them like you could with top end monitors.

Very happy with the Kii/Clear combo, I can now work late into the night and not have to piss about he next day (on full system) tweaking everything from the night before. It's not a perfect translation, but it's close enough.

Hunt = over.

Who wants some LCD-2s or HD800s?
Are you using sonarworks? If so what settings do you use and is it the basic curve for the clears or did you send your headphones in to sonarworks? If you are Eqing them yourself what do you use and what settings? Also, what setting do you use for can opener with the clears? Thanks a lot!
Old 23rd January 2019
  #381
Gear Head
 
Bodhifile's Avatar
Just a reminder to everyone here: mixing and mastering on headphones is one of the easiest ways to damage your hearing. So easy to get obsessive and forget. I'm definitely guilty of this. Hope you all keep volume and work time in check!
Old 23rd January 2019
  #382
Gear Addict
 

Crossfeed really reduce ear fatigue dramatically
Old 23rd January 2019
  #383
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirito View Post
Crossfeed really reduce ear fatigue dramatically
As does eq correction! I find I listen way way way quieter with eq correction.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #384
Lives for gear
 
Adam Dempsey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirito View Post
Crossfeed really reduce ear fatigue dramatically
And can increase smearing in the mid range, depending on the implementation and the mix. (eg: listen with/without for the attack and body of a snare drum).
Old 23rd January 2019
  #385
I like to using my SPL Phonitor (with subtle stereo image correction engaged) driving a grado ps1000, for all things that need magnification.

Also greatly enjoying Stax (top line) but this one's placed near my couch, not in my little "lab/office/studio".

If I had more time, I'd certainly start collecting headphones.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #386
Gear Head
 
Benoit D's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhifile View Post
Just a reminder to everyone here: mixing and mastering on headphones is one of the easiest ways to damage your hearing. So easy to get obsessive and forget. I'm definitely guilty of this. Hope you all keep volume and work time in check!
That's true with average headphones for the most part, because you feel the need to "zoom" in the sound constantly and turn the volume up. That way you reach dangerous volume levels without noticing.

With the Focal Clear, the sound quality is the same at every levels, that's really something to experiment. I never feel the need to increase the volume.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #387
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by kedbear View Post
Are you using sonarworks? If so what settings do you use and is it the basic curve for the clears or did you send your headphones in to sonarworks? If you are Eqing them yourself what do you use and what settings? Also, what setting do you use for can opener with the clears? Thanks a lot!
Yes, Reference 4. I have the (generic) curve applied at around 85%. I will send them off for individual calibration when time permits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhifile View Post
Just a reminder to everyone here: mixing and mastering on headphones is one of the easiest ways to damage your hearing. So easy to get obsessive and forget. I'm definitely guilty of this. Hope you all keep volume and work time in check!
I always work at lower levels, find it much easier to mix that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FabienTDR View Post
I like to using my SPL Phonitor (with subtle stereo image correction engaged) driving a grado ps1000, for all things that need magnification.

Also greatly enjoying Stax (top line) but this one's placed near my couch, not in my little "lab/office/studio".

If I had more time, I'd certainly start collecting headphones.
I had the Phonitor 2 here for a while before getting the Vio V281. Great amp and the crossfeed sounded very good indeed.
Old 24th January 2019
  #388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Hjortnaes View Post
1990's arrived. Right out of the box, mounted with analytical pads: b r i g h t I'll feed them audio for the next couple of days and then we shall see.
They're going back
Old 24th January 2019
  #389
adl
Gear Addict
 
adl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Hjortnaes View Post
They're going back
You really need to use an EQ with em (or Sonarworks headphones software).
EQ some of the highs out and it you get a great headphone. Unfortunately the EQ is needed.

You got any other headphones you are going to try next?

EDIT:
Have a look at the two curves in the picture:
-the blue line is the unaltered frequenzy response curve of the Beyerdynamic 1990 Pro (with analytical erpads)

-the green line is what Sonarworks Software does to make the 1990Pro frequenzy response curve more linear. Notice the big dip it does up in the highs to get a more linear response. The 1990 Pro are really pretty bright and boosted around 10k.
Attached Thumbnails
What are your favorite headphones in the mastering room.-img_20190124_203008.jpg  
Old 24th January 2019
  #390
@adl, you are very helpful, thank you for that. But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by adl View Post
Unfortunately the EQ is needed.
This is my concern. I simply cannot accept that $500+ headphones NEED post EQ to perform adequately. The 1990 Pro's are way too prominent in the sibilance area 7-12 kHz. They are not useable without EQ in my view. I cannot accept that. I cannot accept that they are locked to a software EQ and therefore can't perform on their own.

I find it very strange that they are tuned like this. Why is that? Do people prefer this crazy sibilance? I don't hear the same sibilance on my two pairs of speakers (Dynaudio LYD48 and Genelec 8020D).

My Audio Technica ATH-M50x have somewhat the same curve, but with less amplitude variation and they are almost usable on their own - but they only cost $120, so I can forgive that they are not perfect.

I must say that the 1990's WITH Sonarworks sounds way better than the M50x WITH Sonarworks.

I would love to hear if people here all use EQ with their headphones. Do you?
And if so, why do you accept it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by adl View Post
You got any other headphones you are going to try next?
No, I'm worried that this is a general flaw with headphones and I don't know what to do now.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump