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What are your favorite headphones in the mastering room. Studio Headphones
Old 4th January 2019
  #271
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I'll have to go back and read Syncussion's posts in more detail. My knowledge is very limited, but my experiences with HD600 and Sonarworks seem to correlate with what he said. I've had HD600 for years, and bought a Little Labs headphone amp, but I still think the HD600 sounds too 'nice' for mixing. I think it's more suited to general music listening than mixing/EQ'ing. I also have Ultimate Ears Reference Monitors (not sure about the custom fit, but I find them more useful for setting mix levels). I recently bought Grade GR8e in-ears which seem quite nice for guitar music, but I'm still trying to suss them out.

Whippoorwill's comments about the Pioneers are also interesting. I tried three headphones at a HiFi shop about a year ago, one of which was the Pioneer SE-Monitor5. It sounded completely weird! However, that was in comparison to the other two, which were more like my HD600. I'm now wondering if the Pioneer's sound might make it a good choice for mixing. At the time I did question how a respected firm like Pioneer could have made a headphone which sounded so strange! Whipperwill, have you also heard the more expensive SE-Master1?
Old 4th January 2019
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deejayen View Post
Whippoorwill's comments about the Pioneers are also interesting. I tried three headphones at a HiFi shop about a year ago, one of which was the Pioneer SE-Monitor5. It sounded completely weird! However, that was in comparison to the other two, which were more like my HD600. I'm now wondering if the Pioneer's sound might make it a good choice for mixing. At the time I did question how a respected firm like Pioneer could have made a headphone which sounded so strange! Whipperwill, have you also heard the more expensive SE-Master1?
I haven't heard the SE-Master 1.
With the SE-Monitor5, it sounds really odd and wrong out of the box and is one of the few headphones which needs a true burn in period of fairly loud white noise for a few days. Then the velour pads need to swapped for the faux leather pads that are included in the box. There are a few other minor free mods that slightly alter things from there. The weight and the way they have damped the drivers is very integral to their incredible accuracy. They are possibly the most comfortable headphone I own. Clients, friends and fellow engineers all agree on comfort and sound quality one they've heard them.

Pioneer SE-Monitor5 Over-Ear Headphone Review - Headphone Review At the end of the review: "the more we listened to them the more we liked them." I feel this also relates to the burn in.

Similarly:
TEST: Pioneer SE-MONITOR5 — Monitor
(Courtesy of google translate):
Quote:
"At first, they sound rather thin and subtle, and the bass is not really in place. So I decide to put them on play for three weeks - around the clock, a mix of music interwoven with pauses was played. When I listen to them, they give a completely different sound picture - longer and the upper bass registers sit together, the sound image is homogeneous and airy without glare to thinness. The two things that I react the most to are how natural the song sounds, and that the base is free from the compression that normally occurs in a pair of closed headphones."
I agree with that review so I will post more of it here, I did not write it and I cannot speak Swedish, but the point comes through:

Quote:
"How does Pioneer SE-MONITOR5 work in music production? The answer is very well! The neutral and balanced sound character makes it possible to sit for long periods and work without the ears crouching, and even though they weigh almost half a kilo, they sit comfortably on their heads. [...] Personally, I am impressed by how well I can compare the spectral balance in my mixes with my reference material.

The headphones are also excellent for use when recording since the damping is good enough. Again, you do not need to listen particularly strongly to get the feeling and feel the intonation in, for example, song recording. If I have to be fussy, Pioneer SE-MONITOR5 may lack some heat in the upper base around 175 Hz and a little bottom down at 55 Hz, but at the same time, this means that the middle register will more easily appear in the sound picture in a natural way.
[...]
No matter where in the world you sit and work, these headphones are good enough to mix and produce music in - at an airport, in a café or in a hotel room. They come in handy when I sit in a hotel room in Shanghai and process the music into a big car event.

SUMMARY
The Pioneer SE-MONITOR5 is the best headphone I have tested and the innovative design is reflected in the amazing sound quality. They create a balanced and dynamic sound with nerve in the song sound that I have not previously experienced in a pair of headphones. The base register is fixed and defined without overshadowing the intermediate register. The transient resolution is defined without accentuating any frequency register, and the intermediate register has a nice presence. The sound experience is so real that you almost forget about listening to a pair of headphones."
Old 4th January 2019
  #273
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks very much, Whippoolwill. I think that ties in with what I heard. I can't remember much about them now, but I did post on a headphone forum at the time, so I've had a wee look at what I said:- basically, the bass was non-existent, and the mid-range was a bit strange as well (thin and 'honky'). It's possible they weren't burnt in. Also, they did have the velour pads fitted. I think I'll have to give them a second chance at some point!

By the way, the Grado in-ears I have are the GR10e, not the GR8e.
Old 4th January 2019
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
Have you tried the ATH-R70s?
No, not tried those. I became a Beyerdynamic fan/addict a while back!
Old 5th January 2019
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract View Post
it depends for what you use the headphone, from my little experience with popular dynamic cans from akg beyer ath ect, they can be detailed in the mids and highs it s their strengh but not detailed with transients / dynamic and maybe the sound is not as fast and tight ,also the low is not great , thats where some unhyped orthos are really good, it feels kinda like mixing on speaker to me while equing or compressing, while dynamic cans not really
What are 'unhyped orthos'?
Old 5th January 2019
  #276
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Did anyone tried both Sennheiser 600 & 650 with Sonarworks calibration ? I'm curious if they still sound différent
Old 5th January 2019
  #277
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The flagship final d8000 looks amazing, hyper expensive though.
Has anyone any experience with that?
I’m not looking for a pair, I’m just curious if any engineer has used them, not just audiophiles.
Old 5th January 2019
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouHuman View Post
What are 'unhyped orthos'?
Sorry for my english i mean one with no smiley curve, or bump in the low, or flattering sound .

Headphones tech: Dynamic vs planar magnetic vs electrostatic | Trusted Reviews

i have one ortho, it s a first revision hifiman he560 and it s totaly in a other league compared to akg701 dt 880 ect .. in term of giving a senstation similar to speakers in term of dynamic, transients , the freq curve is also flat like a pan cake from maybe 30 hz to 2000 hz, also the sound even in the low is quick/fast , good timing response. i haven t heard this in a dynamic cans but these are better for some other stuff , that's why i like to have both.

i would like to try the hd800 to check if it can compete with transients and timing attack/ decay/ release vs a planar but doubt it cause of the tech used, and to me it's what matter the most for my needs.. dynamic can give lot of details, it s usefull as a reference, the soundstage i don't care i like more monitors , what planar give me it s what is diffult to get with monitors... flat low end to mids (the most tricky part of the frequency range to me cause of acoustic and speaker designs )and good timing

Last edited by Fred_Abstract; 5th January 2019 at 03:27 PM..
Old 5th January 2019
  #279
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract View Post
Sorry for my english i mean one with no smiley curve, or bump in the low, or flattering sound .

Headphones tech: Dynamic vs planar magnetic vs electrostatic | Trusted Reviews

i have one ortho, it s a first revision hifiman he560 and it s totaly in a other league compared to akg701 dt 880 ect .. in term of giving a senstation similar to speakers in term of dynamic, transients , the freq curve is also flat like a pan cake from maybe 30 hz to 2000 hz, also the sound even in the low is quick/fast , good timing response. i haven t heard this in a dynamic cans but these are better for some other stuff , that's why i like to have both.

i would like to try the hd800 to check if it can compete with transients and timing attack/ decay/ release vs a planar but doubt it cause of the tech used, and to me it's what matter the most for my needs.. dynamic can give lot of details, it s usefull as a reference, the soundstage i don't care i like more monitors , what planar give me it s what is diffult to get with monitors... flat low end to mids (the most tricky part of the frequency range to me cause of acoustic and speaker designs )and good timing
No I understood unhyped perfectly fine, but I was not sure what you mean with ortho. I thought it is a brand or orthoplastics for a IEM headphone. As I understand it now you mean just headphone, right?
Old 8th January 2019
  #280
OMU
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He means planar magnetic headphones.
Old 8th January 2019
  #281
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Yes Thanks OMU planar is the correct word and not ortho it seems it s the technology , most cans you find mentioned in audio productions forum are dynamics one cause planar are more expensive or more unknown (and also each tech as his strenght so depends the needs ), to me people dont realise that is better to spend 1000 or 2000 on a good cans, than 3000/4000 on speakers in a poorly treated room (unless the room is great.. ). you can t judge producing on headphone if you just used headphone in the 200/300 euros range ! it s like saying mixing on speakers sucks but i just used blutooth speaker .
if i was starting it all again, i would buy the best headphone i can get with the interface / amp, in the first place.

i don t know about tech, but have you heard how crossovers sound for example in a non linear phase multiband compresseur ? if this happen in your speakers as well on each crossover it s sure color the sound a lot , it probably dosen t happen .. well i hope. but there is probably some phase shift still hapening and messing timing and transients maybe more than a good cans specally on speakers with bass port ...add the room realese /reverb in the low that is hard to tam ,that just things goods cans may benefits, well i don't know it s just some thoughts

Last edited by Fred_Abstract; 8th January 2019 at 06:32 PM..
Old 10th January 2019
  #282
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Has anyone tried the Avantone MP1? Like anything, they seem to garner mixed reviews, but some are very positive.

I've got 3 pairs of headphones I chose for their more accurate frequency response which might mean they're slightly bass-shy. When I listen to a drum machine track it sounds fine. However, a couple of pro audio engineers have commented on the kick drum being too prominent. When I listened on cheapo Koss headphones, the kick drum rattled my skull, and was quite painful to listen to!

I'm wondering if the Avantones might give a good insight into all the frequencies (including the lower ones).
Old 10th January 2019
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deejayen View Post
Has anyone tried the Avantone MP1? Like anything, they seem to garner mixed reviews, but some are very positive.

I've got 3 pairs of headphones I chose for their more accurate frequency response which might mean they're slightly bass-shy. When I listen to a drum machine track it sounds fine. However, a couple of pro audio engineers have commented on the kick drum being too prominent. When I listened on cheapo Koss headphones, the kick drum rattled my skull, and was quite painful to listen to!

I'm wondering if the Avantones might give a good insight into all the frequencies (including the lower ones).
I didn't find them that good and they are not very well sealed compared to sennheiser headphones in my experience.
Old 12th January 2019
  #284
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Grabbed the Clears...



A bit honky straight out the gate, starting to smooth out now. Lovely headphones, possibly my favourite yet.
Old 12th January 2019
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Grabbed the Clears...


A bit honky straight out the gate, starting to smooth out now. Lovely headphones, possibly my favourite yet.
The Clear is going to reveal itself day after day. I have mine since 6 monthes and I’m still surprise by the tiny improvements I can hear from time to time.
Old 12th January 2019
  #286
Anyway check out the new Adam headphones?
Old 12th January 2019
  #287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason rocks View Post
Anyway check out the new Adam headphones?
I bet they considered calling it the Adam M50x but decided not to
Old 13th January 2019
  #288
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I shot out the Focal Clear Professionals against ATH-R70s and the ATHs won
Old 13th January 2019
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
I shot out the Focal Clear Professionals against ATH-R70s and the ATHs won
Care to elaborate?
Old 13th January 2019
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Care to elaborate?
Read my previous post..
Old 13th January 2019
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
Read my previous post..
Found it. Fair enough!

Had you burned them in?
Old 13th January 2019
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Abstract View Post
Yes Thanks OMU planar is the correct word and not ortho it seems it s the technology , most cans you find mentioned in audio productions forum are dynamics one cause planar are more expensive or more unknown (and also each tech as his strenght so depends the needs ), to me people dont realise that is better to spend 1000 or 2000 on a good cans, than 3000/4000 on speakers in a poorly treated room (unless the room is great.. ). you can t judge producing on headphone if you just used headphone in the 200/300 euros range ! it s like saying mixing on speakers sucks but i just used blutooth speaker .
What about the Sennheiser HD 650 ? It's not so pricey and can get good result
Old 13th January 2019
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Found it. Fair enough!

Had you burned them in?
Yes, both headphones have been used for awhile
Old 13th January 2019
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
Yes, both headphones have been used for awhile
Out of interest - what other headphones have you compared those AT to? HD600, HD800, LCD-X etc?
Old 13th January 2019
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit D View Post
The Clear is going to reveal itself day after day. I have mine since 6 monthes and I’m still surprise by the tiny improvements I can hear from time to time.
Same! They keep changing for the better.
Old 13th January 2019
  #296
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Can anyone cite or link any scientific proof of the benefits of “burning in” audio transducers such as speakers and headphones? It’s one of the accepted practices discussed in rare air audio forums, but I haven’t seen any proof of the alleged positive changes in the gear.
Old 13th January 2019
  #297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Can anyone cite or link any scientific proof of the benefits of “burning in” audio transducers such as speakers and headphones? It’s one of the accepted practices discussed in rare air audio forums, but I haven’t seen any proof of the alleged positive changes in the gear.
Define "proof".
Old 13th January 2019
  #298
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i have no scientific proof. but i bought sennheiser headphonse some days ago and experienced an outfolding of the bass response.
Old 13th January 2019
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Can anyone cite or link any scientific proof of the benefits of “burning in” audio transducers such as speakers and headphones? It’s one of the accepted practices discussed in rare air audio forums, but I haven’t seen any proof of the alleged positive changes in the gear.
I've absolutely heard it in previous headphones, including these Clears. They were honky/sharp in the mids/high mids straight away, but after 30+ hours of continuous play that has disappeared. I was using my Kii's as a reference each time.

While not either scientific or objective, Tyll identified a broken in pair to statistically significant levels: Testing the Audibility of Break-in Effects | InnerFidelity

As always, each to their own. Not here to try and convince anyone.
Old 13th January 2019
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
While not either scientific or objective, Tyll identified a broken in pair to statistically significant levels.
Thanks for the link. But the test’s designer admitted within the article that the test method was flawed:

“Have we absolutely proven that break-in is an audible phenomenon? No. All I've proven is that I could tell one headphone from another.”

They allowed the listeners to listen to the two clearly identified headphones before the scored listening test. That allowed them to learn whatever audible differences there were between the broken in and not broken in phones, which learning they could take into the blind test. As many of the comments pointed out, they could be hearing manufacturer’s tolerance variations between two phones that have nothing to do with the breaking in of one of the two “identical” phones.

It is actually a very hard thing to prove or disprove with firm scientific rigor. And has anyone ever commented that breaking in a set of phones made them sound worse? It seems like that should be the case at least some of the time, but it never seems to be reported in regard to headphones.
I’ve got a 2003 Toyota that is fully broken in and runs as smooth as silk. But I can’t convince anyone to trade me straight up for a new, stiff 2019 model that will need a mind boggling amount of run-in. Go figure!
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