The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Interpret Izotope Insight meters Spatial Processor Plugins
Old 10th March 2018
  #1
Gear Head
 

Interpret Izotope Insight meters

Hello there!

I'm a music producer / sound engineer, I think I can handle my mixes well and I've had great feedback on them since a long time ago. But I've been working mostly by ear.

Now I'm making music for a new project that is pretty complex and I want to have not only musical mixes but also scientifically perfect. For that I'm working a lot with Insight by my side, comparing my mixes to others that I admire (I mean looking at their spectrums, scientific approach), all that. I've found many videos/tutorials talking about what Insight can do, but not saying "when this is red it is bad" (well that only with the LUFS, which is just a part of it). I really don't understand some of the features, so maybe some of you gurus can throw some knowledge:

- What is good and bad when looking at the Sound Field meter? I have the idea that when you see something on the sides, kind of like across the X axis, it's not good. But maybe there's no good and wrong. I also have the idea that having a +1 is the best, right? What does that mean? Maybe with this tool I can detect phase issues? How? Since I've been making mostly electronic music I haven't paid that much attention to phase problems because as far as I know that's more related with recordings. But I am going to record for this project.

- As mastering engineers I suppose, or that's what I've been told, that you like to have your mixes provided at -6dB more or less. When I produce I have a basic mastering chain with a +6dB gain plugin, a OneKnobBrighter very subtle, an L2 that only works with some peaks, and always a NUGEN Monofilter. But now, it gets confusing about the max LUFS I should be working with. Now I have something like around -10 with the mastering chain, around -20 without. Would you slap me in the face if I handle you a mix with that numbers? Also let me say that I work with this +6dB configuration because from this sessions I get my samples and loops to go live, and also to not saturate the mix.

- What would you think about a guy who makes a great mix (that's my best case scenario) that already sound good in a club, in a car, in a mono speaker, etc, that just adds a L2 with some limiting to get some loudness and that's it? Do you think not having a mastering engineer is acceptable if the mix is good and the numbers (LUFS) are on point? I understand that a band needs mastering, but my mixes are a deep, long work that seeks perfection because the material from the mix is the material I use live, so it has to be as perfect as possible. And I work with sessions that has all the songs in them, meaning I work with all beats of all songs at the same time, all bass, etc, so I have a consistent volume. Maybe for electronic music mastering is not as big of a deal.

And basically any kind of advice you can give so a composer doesn't give headaches to a colleague of yours, would be very appreciated. And any math. I know ears have a very important part on this process, but also numbers must be on point.

Sorry if this doesn't go here, I know there's the newbie forum but to me these are mastering questions.

Thanks a lot!
Old 11th March 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Hermetech Mastering's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Hate to be the first to have to say it, but "good" or "bad" is what your room/monitor/ear/brain/experience tells you, not what the meters do. A quest for "scientifically perfect mixes" is doomed to failure, IMHO, as you are starting from a false premise.
Old 11th March 2018
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
- What is good and bad when looking at the Sound Field meter? I have the idea that when you see something on the sides, kind of like across the X axis, it's not good. But maybe there's no good and wrong. I also have the idea that having a +1 is the best, right? What does that mean? Maybe with this tool I can detect phase issues? How?
Answers to all of these questions are in the iZotope Insight Help Documentation. Go to the "Sound Field Meters" starting at page 27 with the Vectorscope. All the meters are expained there.
Old 11th March 2018
  #4
Gear Head
 

Thanks a lot for your answer but it seems I didn't explain myself. For instance, this is what the manual says (I went over the manual already):

Quote:
What is a Vectorscope?
A Vectorscope is an meter which juxtaposes the two channels of a stereo
signal on an x-y axis in order to display the similarity or difference between
the two channels. A mono signal will produce a straight vertical line while
signals with a wider stereo image will produce more horizontal shapes.

How is a Vectorscope used?
A Vectorscope is used while mixing or mastering to monitor the overall
stereo width of audio. Additionally a Vectorscope can immediately alert
you to potential issues of phase cancellation. This is useful when placing
microphones in a stereo pair, inspecting how various stereo signals combine,
and ensuring your audio will translate to mono playout when necessary.
That explains what a Vectorscope is but it doesn't say anything about how it looks when there are problems. It just says that it can show when problems exist, but not how it would look if problems exist.

This is a question regarding how the tools work, but about what they look like when there are, for instance, phase problems, or stuff like stereo problems with the bass (which I think I solve by using the NUGEN Monofilter, but still I'd like to know so I can find the elements that may cause problems with this).

Thanks again
Old 11th March 2018
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
That explains what a Vectorscope is but it doesn't say anything about how it looks when there are problems.
A very quick and dirty copy & paste:

Polar Sample Vectorscope
Patterns that appear within the 45-degree safe lines represent in phase signals while patterns outside these lines represent out of phase audio.

Polar Level Vectorscope
Rays within the 45-degree safe lines represent in phase audio while anything beyond these lines represents audio that is out of phase.

Lissajous Vectorscope
Typically, stereo recordings produce a random pattern on a Lissajous Vectorscope that is taller than it is wide. Vertical patterns mean left and right channels are similar (approaching mono, which is a vertical line). Horizontal patterns mean the two channels are very different, which could result in mono compatibility problems.

The Correlation Meter
A Correlation Meter is used in stereo to ensure that the left and right signals will sum to mono without any cancellation of frequencies. If two signals are perfectly out of phase, then summing them would result in no audible audio. Typically, mixed audio will have values between 0 and +1 depending on the amount of width of the stereo signal. Values that dip briefly below zero do not necessarily represent serious problems with your audio, but prolonged negative readings indicate issues with mono compatibility.
Old 14th March 2018
  #6
Gear Head
 

Ok sorry I didn't see that, I thought they only explained the functionality, not talk about criteria. So, I suppose I shouldn't be too worried about the Lissajous Vectorscope if I work with a project in which there are different instruments on L and R, I just have to assume that when listened in mono some instrumentation won't sound, although the basics will be there (kick, snare, all that).

Thanks a lot and sorry for being stupid.
Old 14th March 2018
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by end View Post
..if I work with a project in which there are different instruments on L and R, I just have to assume that when listened in mono some instrumentation won't sound
Oh, they will all sound, just not as loud as if they were panned center. How loud they will sound is dependant of the pan depth of your current DAW. Between -3 dB and -6 dB less loud would be my guess.
Old 14th March 2018
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Greg Reierson's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I always recommend using the same metering that the end listener uses.
Old 14th March 2018
  #9
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Hjortnaes View Post
Oh, they will all sound, just not as loud as if they were panned center. How loud they will sound is dependant of the pan depth of your current DAW. Between -3 dB and -6 dB less loud would be my guess.
Good! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Reierson View Post
I always recommend using the same metering that the end listener uses.
What do you mean by metering? I have a crappy bluetooth JBL speaker that I use to check my mixes if that's what you meant (it has some superbass thing that detects easily when your low end is too much), and I usually check my mixes on my phone's speaker and with regular headphones.

About at what dB you guys like to get your mixes my guess that it's about -6dB is good? Any tips about the LUFS levels I should be working with?

Thanks A LOT!
Old 14th March 2018
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Greg Reierson's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I mean not a single listener has ever cared what a meter reads. They only care what it sounds like.

Level doesn't matter as long as it's not hitting 0dBFS. Set your safety limiter to -1dBFS, hit it rarely and you'll be fine.
Old 25th March 2018
  #11
Gear Head
 

Forgot to answer to this. Thanks a lot! It got me deeper into the manual and started working out how the meters work.
Top Mentioned Products
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump