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Goodhertz CanOpener Studio v3 Studio Headphones
Old 8th March 2018
  #1
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Goodhertz CanOpener Studio v3

Hello everyone,

I saw there is no topic about this plug-in. I just bought it recently and i use it in conjunction with sonarworks 3.. the result is Amazing to m'y ears.

Anyway i had to adjust the EQ because i feel it makes the Bass à bit predominant. So i did -0,4 db on Bass , + 1dB on treble. I keep the crossfeed at 100%.

What's your opinion about this plug-in ? And i Wonder if it's possible to use with hijack or another simple alternative . I would like to use it outside of the Daw
Old 8th March 2018
  #2
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Ain't Nobody's Avatar
 

I was about to do that same combo until I read a few comments saying Can Opener is tone shaping when people don't want it to be.... now here you are saying it again. Seems to me if it's changing the tone in unintended ways, and you're essentially just guessing at how to correct it (when you definitely shouldn't have to in the first place), then it's likely to cause more problems than it fixes.

If it's just doing crosstalk, there are other solutions out there for that, and I've never heard of them screwing up the tone so you can't possibly know what's real.
Old 9th March 2018
  #3
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I think the tone doesn't change so much. That's why i did little adjustment. And actually, i like the way it's smooth the sound.

And you know, maybe i'm not so not used to it. Like in reality there is this amout of bass on all songs. So i 'm not sure if it's my mind thinking there is too much low end or if this plug-in reveals the truth. It's just my first feeling, a little bit too much low end

If there was no adjustment to make why did they put an EQ ?
Old 9th March 2018
  #4
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It's not just you, though. It's always the same comment from multiple people... it colors the sound, and specifically adds low end. I'm scratching my head as to what justification there is for having eq with it at all.

The only valid reason I can think of for coloring your monitoring chain would be specifically tailored corrective eq (Sonarworks, certain active speaker systems, measured room correction, etc).

Pity, because I dig some of thier stuff, and I do actually need a crosstalk solution personally.
Old 9th March 2018
  #5
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maybe try the demo to confirm by yourself i'm curious to know your thinking
Old 9th March 2018
  #6
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I might. I had decided not to bother after seeing several of the same comment in different places. I'm going to demo the Vulf comp anyway, though so...
Old 14th March 2018
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ain't Nobody View Post
I might. I had decided not to bother after seeing several of the same comment in different places. I'm going to demo the Vulf comp anyway, though so...
For what it's worth, any realistic crossfeed algorithm will change the tonality some, in the same way that crossfeed on loudspeakers changes the tonality, emphasizing lower frequencies. CanOpener was tuned in our mastering room, and on decently-flat headphones, it sounds (and measures) remarkably similar to high-quality speakers in a highly treated room. We could make it flatter, but it would be less accurate.

Generally, this is a desirable feature unless the headphone manufacturer has already emphasized the bass, which is why we provide a super transparent shelving EQ when compensation is needed.
Old 14th March 2018
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirito View Post
I think the tone doesn't change so much. That's why i did little adjustment. And actually, i like the way it's smooth the sound.

And you know, maybe i'm not so not used to it. Like in reality there is this amout of bass on all songs. So i 'm not sure if it's my mind thinking there is too much low end or if this plug-in reveals the truth. It's just my first feeling, a little bit too much low end

If there was no adjustment to make why did they put an EQ ?
Thanks for checking out CanOpener! Mostly, we added the EQ because headphones are rarely flat, and it allows for very smooth compensation of any deficiencies. Some people use CanOpener for recording/tracking as well, and it can be helpful to EQ the talent's headphones to their liking to help get the best performance.
Old 15th March 2018
  #9
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Hi Devin! So glad to see this thread here as I've been trying to up my headphone game, and I dream of a time of getting actual work done with only headphones (I tour 1/4-1/3 of the year and master the rest). I discovered can opener when I was looking for alternatives to Waves NX because A. I don't like buying Waves plugins and B. NX does SERIOUS mangling to the audio. Pretty much unusable except for balance checks. Also tried the tonebooster one and it was strange as well. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would use NX when Can Opener is another option. This plus Sonarworks is a pretty wonderful combo.

I measured can opener with plugin doctor, and a 1db cut in the low end makes it basically flat (1.05 would be perfect but it only allows for .1 db steps). There is a .5db boost around 400 hz and above 2k its flat (doesn't need any high end boost), you can tune the bump slightly by changing the freq point of the low end shelf but then it starts to cut into the upper midrange just slightly. Thats a very small tonal shift for the wonders that this plug does. I personally think a 1db cut in the lows is perfect for my needs.

I think people could be weirded out by the low end boost because people are used to a certain low end response that their headphones give them, and Can Opener changing that response makes it seem like its wrong. I reference certain aspects of the lows in my headphones from time to time so I wouldn't want more bass down there. But I can see the point of tuning it that way, especially for mixing.

Got a demo of your other plugs and they all sound great, the tape plug is beautiful and the Vulf compressor is like a Unicorn, never heard anything like it. I would have bought all 3 but I'm saving for the Weiss compressor. Happy Pi day!
Old 15th March 2018
  #10
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I'm not sure why this isn't spoken about more to be honest. That aside though this is a fantastic plugin, I've been demoing it and love the way it sounds with my AKG 702. Just sounds right to me. Think I will pick this up later on today, happy Pi day!
Old 15th March 2018
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Hi Devin! So glad to see this thread here as I've been trying to up my headphone game, and I dream of a time of getting actual work done with only headphones (I tour 1/4-1/3 of the year and master the rest). I discovered can opener when I was looking for alternatives to Waves NX because A. I don't like buying Waves plugins and B. NX does SERIOUS mangling to the audio. Pretty much unusable except for balance checks. Also tried the tonebooster one and it was strange as well. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would use NX when Can Opener is another option. This plus Sonarworks is a pretty wonderful combo.

I measured can opener with plugin doctor, and a 1db cut in the low end makes it basically flat (1.05 would be perfect but it only allows for .1 db steps). There is a .5db boost around 400 hz and above 2k its flat (doesn't need any high end boost), you can tune the bump slightly by changing the freq point of the low end shelf but then it starts to cut into the upper midrange just slightly. Thats a very small tonal shift for the wonders that this plug does. I personally think a 1db cut in the lows is perfect for my needs.

I think people could be weirded out by the low end boost because people are used to a certain low end response that their headphones give them, and Can Opener changing that response makes it seem like its wrong. I reference certain aspects of the lows in my headphones from time to time so I wouldn't want more bass down there. But I can see the point of tuning it that way, especially for mixing.

Got a demo of your other plugs and they all sound great, the tape plug is beautiful and the Vulf compressor is like a Unicorn, never heard anything like it. I would have bought all 3 but I'm saving for the Weiss compressor. Happy Pi day!
Hello thermos, What is your headphone model ? I personnally use HD 650 with CanOpener and SW individual.
I read another person saying it needs -1db Bass attenuation too. I will try that setting
Old 15th March 2018
  #12
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I can definitely recommend Can Opener. It's by far the best crossfeed plugin ever made. I've tried them all and this is the best.

Personally I combine it with Toneboosters Morphit but that part is only needed for very non-flat headphones.. if you are up in the high-end of headphones you'd probably be okay with Can Opener only.

I can't listen to anything without Can Opener at home. I run everything through it.. even when watching Netflix or listening to podcasts (using Audio Hijack to route all audio through it).
Old 15th March 2018
  #13
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirito View Post
Hello thermos, What is your headphone model ? I personnally use HD 650 with CanOpener and SW individual.
I read another person saying it needs -1db Bass attenuation too. I will try that setting
Haven’t tried it yet with my usual headphones (Focal Spirit Pro) as I’m on tour. Just measured the plug when I thought it was adding bass as I’m used to a certain low end from these earbuds I use on the road. Gonna get some audeze lcd-4 or something in that vein.
Old 15th March 2018
  #14
Gear Head
 

Another vote for CanOpener, sounds flat and uncolored compared to NX or Isone, IMHO. Doesn't change the tone more than what is expected due to the difference between speakers/phones. I use it with the "Most realistic" setting and Bass -1 dB. With HD600 and SonarWorks correction it's uncannily close to our speaker setup when it comes to stereo presentation and tonal balance. Very useful.
Old 15th March 2018
  #15
Gear Guru
Is this a free application for iPhone?
Old 15th March 2018
  #16
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I ended up getting canopener, tiltshift and good dither (which worked out as free being the 3rd plus the sale)

What excellent plugins. Now i've heard canopener I can't go back, I haven't altered the eq curve on it and don't plan on doing that soon. It's making balances simpler especially in the low mids. Slightly OT; Tiltshift sounds amazing to my ears and the cpu is low, the filters on it are buttery smooth.
Old 17th March 2018
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
Is this a free application for iPhone?
Unfortunately, the iPhone app is no longer available. It was my go-to music player for a long time. I wish they would resurrect it!
Old 22nd March 2018
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devinkerr View Post
For what it's worth, any realistic crossfeed algorithm will change the tonality some, in the same way that crossfeed on loudspeakers changes the tonality, emphasizing lower frequencies. CanOpener was tuned in our mastering room, and on decently-flat headphones, it sounds (and measures) remarkably similar to high-quality speakers in a highly treated room. We could make it flatter, but it would be less accurate.

Generally, this is a desirable feature unless the headphone manufacturer has already emphasized the bass, which is why we provide a super transparent shelving EQ when compensation is needed.
I had the feeling that must be the case, and I like what you guys are doing overall. The problem as I see it (for me, anyway), is that it sounds like you are essentially doing compensation for the difference between a generic set of headphones and a generic set of studio monitors. While I appreciate the simplicity of the approach, lack of gimicks like head tilt angle, and agree that it's likely a step in the right direction in a generic listening situation, it strikes me (at first glance, anyway) as a less accurate approach in the case where the engineer is already using high quality phones tuned with a custom compensation for those exact headphones (sonarworks, etc).

In that case, there is now essentially this OTHER EQ compensation happening on top of that which is not specifically tuned, and which has no specific remedy to negate it since more case specific corrective EQ is already being used. After all, if the engineer had the equipment to precisely measure the response of their cans and create their own exacting curve, they wouldn't have bought Sonarworks in the first place.

Do you have a specific remedy for that situation? (Precise settings that UNDO the corrective EQ for those already using more specifically tuned curves for their exact set of cans? If not, I'm sure I don't need to point out that there are a number of reviews out there essentially all saying the same thing, and that some sort of EQ compensation defeat option may be a bonus selling point in a future revision as there are clearly a number of users who want to do their own more headphone specific EQ correction... even if I do happen to be wrong in all of my assumptions (wouldn't be the first time).

Looking forward to trying the comp now that I'm back home, and I've been looking to pickup some kind of tilt EQ anyway.

EDIT: I tried registering multiple times on your site with valid info and verified captcha, but was served "HTTP Status 500 - Servlet execution threw an exception" error log page rather than confirmation page, and so far no confirmation in my email either, so I'm assuming it wasn't able to process... and plugs don't work without registering, right?

Last edited by Ain't Nobody; 22nd March 2018 at 09:42 PM..
Old 24th March 2018
  #19
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Hermetech Mastering's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I can't use it because there is no 32 bit version. Bad hurts.
Old 24th March 2018
  #20
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Ain't Nobody's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
I can't use it because there is no 32 bit version. Bad hurts.
And I thought I was the last person on the planet to make the 64 bit jump.

Just out of curiosity... what's the reason you're on 32 bit? Older hardware? Can't update the DAW or similar software due to some other conflict?
Old 24th March 2018
  #21
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Audiomulch as my main DAW since 2000. Not been updated in nearly five years. No 64 bit version, although it has been promised. I mean I could switch to Reaper or something, but I have 18 years of my life invested in Mulch, and still love it to bits!
Old 24th March 2018
  #22
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If it ain't broke...

I've done 3 major DAW/OS updates in the past 15 years, and it's been a huge pain each time. STILL dealing with bits that broke during update to Logic X a few months ago.
Old 25th March 2018
  #23
Gear Guru
Different

Canopener Studio is the best Headphone to Speaker translator I have tried. Of course it changes tonality! Speakers add in the air resulting in up to 6dB more Middle. Kick Bass Snare Vocal all up by up to 6dB. It amazes me that this Elephant in the room is not more widely recognised. How come people on Cans are not missing all that Middle? Which translation to the ears do we Mix and Master for?
It is a big shame that the iOS version is gone, due to Apple's making it impossible. Best shot I reckon would be if GoodHertz or AudioFile Engineering made an iOS Music Player with built in Canopener. Like Fidelia. DD
Old 26th March 2018
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Canopener Studio is the best Headphone to Speaker translator I have tried. Of course it changes tonality! Speakers add in the air resulting in up to 6dB more Middle. Kick Bass Snare Vocal all up by up to 6dB. It amazes me that this Elephant in the room is not more widely recognised. How come people on Cans are not missing all that Middle? Which translation to the ears do we Mix and Master for?
It is a big shame that the iOS version is gone, due to Apple's making it impossible. Best shot I reckon would be if GoodHertz or AudioFile Engineering made an iOS Music Player with built in Canopener. Like Fidelia. DD
Starting to agree with this. I've been using Can Opener flat and it definitely seems like the right tuning to me. I LOVE it for mixing with cans. That plus Sonarworks, WOW.
Old 26th March 2018
  #25
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I'll give it a shot. I'm impressed with the comp Vulf comp I tried today. Definitely not a general use comp, but quite possibly the single best character comp I've tried. Instant vintage breaks, and I can push it into the ridiculous without it necessarily sounding bad. Not quite sure yet if it's a one trick pony, but it's a pretty good trick.

Can't help gritting my teeth going into can opener demo, though, since monitor chain is the one place I want zero character. Last album, I burned HUNDREDS of test CD's during the process to test on a variety of other systems while mixing (not all had aux input), so I'm pretty hawkish on eliminating translation issues.
Old 26th March 2018
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
Audiomulch as my main DAW since 2000. Not been updated in nearly five years. No 64 bit version, although it has been promised. I mean I could switch to Reaper or something, but I have 18 years of my life invested in Mulch, and still love it to bits!
Switching to Reaper was one of the best uses (probably THE best) of my time this year. My god, so many hours I've already saved myself. I was using Soundblade before which is probably harder to use than Audiomulch, but Reaper is really worth a go if you are getting left in the 32 bit dust.
Old 26th March 2018
  #27
Gear Guru
Which Character?

Quote:
Can't help gritting my teeth going into can opener demo, though, since monitor chain is the one place I want zero character.
Not possible IMO. If you listen on Cans you are missing 6dB of Centre, as compared to on loudspeakers. Furthermore cans are from from flat response. Meanwhile loudspeakers are extremely influenced by the room. Really if you want to hear something similar to what real people hear, one has to either listen on popular or averaged earbuds or cans or on speakers using the Bruel and Kjaer or Sonarworks averaged domestic curves.

DD
Old 26th March 2018
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Not possible IMO. If you listen on Cans you are missing 6dB of Centre, as compared to on loudspeakers. Furthermore cans are from from flat response. Meanwhile loudspeakers are extremely influenced by the room. Really if you want to hear something similar to what real people hear, one has to either listen on popular or averaged earbuds or cans or on speakers using the Bruel and Kjaer or Sonarworks averaged domestic curves.

DD
I get the concept, but you're going in two directions at once, and there's a fundamental conflict in the logic that some have shared here. The goal is definitely not to hear what others hear. I believe that concept is important as well, but I have plenty of real world lofi options for that, and roughly zero percent of fans are listening on crosstalk solutions or sitting with monitors in an equilateral triangle, so this would be the wrong tool for that anyway.

The goal is emulating a properly calibrated studio environment which is exceedingly expensive to create in the real world, and doesn't travel with you. I don't mind at all that they go for a generalized ideal rather than any specific gear. Frankly, I find the Waves solution to be a bunch of gimmicks stacked into a single plugin. In reality, IF such an ideal can be quantized, then any particular monitors in any particular environment are only approximating it anyway, so I would agree that it's probably actually BETTER to emulate the theoretical ideal on that end.

The issue is on the other end. While it makes sense to emulate an ideal on the monitor end, it's a weak and problematic approach on the actual listening end. Since cans vary wildly from model to model, the only way to properly address those issues is with a customized approach... something Sonarworks appears to be doing a decent job of.

Everything else in life works this way too, btw... I'm not picking on this product. We can both measure something using an idealized meter. We don't have to use the same meter stick. It is crucial, though, that if what we are both measuring is curved or wrinkled, that we effectively flatten each according to it's own unique issues or otherwise normalize the measurements. That's what Sonarworks does. It eliminates the variable that can't be normalized without customization for each case.

So... if you DON'T use Sonarworks or a similar customized approach, then you're distorting the sound to match a generic set of cans that don't exist, and the experience will vary wildly from pair to pair.

If you ARE using Sonarworks, then you've already got painstaking research behind eliminating the variable on your end... and then adding another EQ curve on top of that that is not specifically tuned. Just think about it. It can't be both. This is the logical conflict I alluded to earlier. CO can't be applying the right EQ curve if you're using Sonarworks AND the right curve if you're not. Common sense would tend to indicate that if something needs to be be boosted 3db, so be it, but adding two different EQ's that each add 3db doesn't make it twice as good... and randomly either adding or not adding that second EQ will give very different results... which defeats the stated goal.

If Can Opener were designed specifically to meet the ideal that Sonarworks adjusts to, then that's a beautiful thing (and should then ONLY be used with Sonarworks), but I suspect this is not the case since the comment always seems to be the same about needing to adjust the curve in the same direction. It appears instead to be targeting generic deficiencies in headphones. If it's doing anything OTHER than meeting Sonarworks' ideal, then it's a step in the wrong direction for those users who have already applied specific cures for some of those same deficiencies as it relates to their exact situation.

Simply put, when it comes to EQ.... double fixed = broken.

That being said, I do appreciate that monitoring is sometimes used for purposes other than "flat" reference. I use mixcubes sometimes which have no high or low end at all, yet are useful for certain tasks. Emulating a dialed studio listening environment on random cans is, however, a MUCH tougher nut to crack.
Old 26th March 2018
  #29
Gear Guru
Que

Ain't, Canopener is in no way similar to SonarWorks. CO applies a HRTF to the signal in an attempt to mitigate the vast divergence in response which ears have when listening on Cans vs Speakers.
SonarWorks is a Frequency Analyser and an Equaliser. I have only the Speaker version, which provides non flat target curves, such as the Bruel and Kjaer and their own resulting from more recent research. I expect the Headphone system provides exactly the same curves, and flat which is of no real world use.

Quote:
The goal is definitely not to hear what others hear.
Your goal, into your net, on your pitch. Alone.

DD
Old 26th March 2018
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Ain't, Canopener is in now way similar to SonarWorks.



Your goal, into your net, on your pitch. Alone.

DD
You appear to be misunderstanding what I said.

Not my goal. The goal of the product. The PRODUCT's goal is to emulate an idealized studio listening environment.

And yes, the fact that the two products do two separate things is fundamental to everything I just said.
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