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Why is it that most mastering studios do NOT use "studio monitors"? Studio Monitors
Old 24th August 2018
  #121
Gear Nut
Did you come across the old sound on sound articles that did technical comparisons between studio monitors and hifi speakers of the same price range? (EDIT: actually the hifi speakers were lower priced than the studio montiros tested) Kind of lower price ranges I guess you could call it. Was quite interesting.. I'll find it and post the link. It's not on the mastering end of things, just home studio, but still interesting.

Here they are:

Monitors vs Hi-fi Speakers: Part 1 |

Monitors vs Hi-fi Speakers: Part 2 |
Old 24th August 2018
  #122
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 View Post
Did you come across the old sound on sound articles that did technical comparisons between studio monitors and hifi speakers of the same price range? (EDIT: actually the hifi speakers were lower priced than the studio montiros tested) Kind of lower price ranges I guess you could call it. Was quite interesting.. I'll find it and post the link. It's not on the mastering end of things, just home studio, but still interesting.

Here they are:

Monitors vs Hi-fi Speakers: Part 1 |

Monitors vs Hi-fi Speakers: Part 2 |
Yes, good reading. I especially like the last line of the conclusion: "So, can you use hi-fi speakers as nearfield monitors? Well, as I wrote at the start of this article, it depends..."

LOL - and 'round it goes...

One of comments I like here was from Scraggs: "...mastering engineers use the speakers that they use because they get good results with them"

In the end that's all that matters.
Old 24th August 2018
  #123
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonlinear View Post
I agree! I've gone in circles. But it's not because I'm naive - it's because of TOO MUCH information like this:
I guess the problem is that most of those sources that you quote are talking about typical budget/mid price hifi speakers which are often designed to sound impressive in a hifi shop demonstration. They're not really talking about the well designed high end hifi speakers that mastering engineers would use.

I have some reasonably respectable mid price hifi speakers that I use in the house but they're not up to the standard that I'd want from monitors and often produce the flattering sound that is mentioned in those examples you posted.
Old 25th August 2018
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonlinear View Post

One of comments I like here was from Scraggs: "...mastering engineers use the speakers that they use because they get good results with them"
Do exist ME using speakers that don't give a good result?

-1


I knew ME who worked with martin logan quest. All the contrary of a neutral speaker and a caricatural hifi speaker (with a beautiful sound, this is true)
Old 26th August 2018
  #125
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
A bit of history will help with understanding. Traditional studio monitors placed emphasis on the midrange so that we could easily spot musical problems in an ensemble before the musicians left the studio. Because broadcast music directors typically made decisions using hi fi speakers, the concept of a "reference monitor" or "near field" monitoring started being used for mixing in the late 1960s. With tape, the heavy lifting was done during tracking taking a conservative approach to signal processing using the big midrangy full range monitors. Mastering using transparent full range high-end hi fi speakers began with Bob Ludwig at Sterling Sound in New York in the 1970s. The results were stunning with his only competition being Doug Sax who was using home brew hi fi speakers and a very conservative approach to processing with all custom gear at The Mastering Lab in Los Angeles.

Mastering is all about translation. The transparent full range monitoring simply translates better because most speakers are all over the map response wise.
Hey Bob!

I think that’s why the big Dunlavy’s many of us MEs use for mastering, work so well.
Lots of midrange and HF detail for detecting problems.
three-way, with different crossovers, especially on my SC4A’s.
one drawback, they scare attending clients sometimes, who are used to bass heavy sounds,
on cheap nearfields with typical 2k crossovers, in poorly treated mix rooms.

i added a pair of subs to help reveal the lower octave, since most pop music is sub & vocal centric these days.

always enjoy your posts Bob, one of the few valid viewpoints on the GS forums!

best, JT
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Last edited by Jerry Tubb; 26th August 2018 at 07:26 PM..
Old 26th August 2018
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus View Post
Do exist ME using speakers that don't give a good result?

-1
No and that's his point. Your interpretation of his comment is polarity-flipped. If they were NOT getting good results they would change speakers.
Old 26th August 2018
  #127
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonlinear View Post
No and that's his point. Your interpretation of his comment is polarity-flipped. If they were NOT getting good results they would change speakers.
How ME work in studios where they are employed and where they do not choose the speakers? In audio and in cinema?
In audio, they are lucky, the loudness war save them but in cinema they have not the same chance: they know work or they are fired. .
Old 1 week ago
  #128
Here for the gear
 

Just wanted to say this was a very insightful forum to read.
the monitors i usually do my finalizing on are ADS L910 which, the manufacturer calls them studio monitors, but i only really see them in audiophile vintage home setups at this point. go figure... i like them though.

i a/b the ADS 910s with genelec 8050 generally, in a mastering situation.

i track and mix a/b with ns10m and krk v8 series 1.

i also have yamaha hs80, more for production, and krk rokits which i let other producers and engineers bang out on, almost in fear for all the rest of my monitors.

Out of all these, the ns10m stems from a bookshelf home speaker, and ended up more studio standard than all my other monitors lol. all these speakers sound waaay different from one another, but they serve their purpose to me.
Old 4 days ago
  #129
Gear Maniac
 

To play devil's advocate: In a way, wouldn't it kind of make sense to master for sort of average speakers that most of the audience would be listening on?
Old 4 days ago
  #130
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Verified Member
"Average" speakers are full of peaks and dips at a variety of frequencies depending on the design and driver uniformity. High-quality speakers are much flatter which gives more consistent results that will sound good on a wide variety of "average" speakers. In other words, they are MORE average in response.
Old 4 days ago
  #131
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
"Average" speakers are full of peaks and dips at a variety of frequencies depending on the design and driver uniformity. High-quality speakers are much flatter which gives more consistent results that will sound good on a wide variety of "average" speakers. In other words, they are MORE average in response.
That makes sense.
Old 4 days ago
  #132
Gear Maniac
 

UK mastering legend Kevin Metcalfe uses NS10's (shocker)..

Quite the impressive CV (Queen, David Bowie, Kinks, The Who, ELO, The Police, U2, etc etc) :


Kevin Metcalfe engineer at Soundmasters International
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Old 4 days ago
  #133
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Verified Member
first mastering room to set up an online mastering service

There are also PMCs. A lot of mastering engineers have NS-10s so mixers can reference what mastering is doing.
Old 4 days ago
  #134
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE201 View Post
UK mastering legend Kevin Metcalfe uses NS10's (shocker)..
...but also PMC BB5s, according to their gear list.
Old 4 days ago
  #135
Gear Maniac
 

A producer/engineer pal of mine attended a session there (some years ago) and reported in amazement that the bulk of work , on their session anyway, had been on the NS10's with only occasional trips to the 'big blasters' to check low end etc.. I too was astonished to hear this information.

I have no idea if this is the usual practice or indeed like Bob O points out NS10's could be for the benefit of the mix engineer/producer present.. ( good point btw - I never considered this ,, seems logical)

The ensuing album sounded great (mixes, music, performances, mastering etc).

I've long been a 'fan' of Kevin Metcalfe's work with numerous records he's touched in my record collection.
Old 4 days ago
  #136
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Silvertone's Avatar
I use the same speakers Abby Road uses for tracking, mixing and mastering. They work incredibly well for all three.

YMWV

Nearfields only became popular because of home based or project based studios where people could not set up or install big mains.

Altec 604’s were king for over a decade at one point. NS10M became the next king due to room sizes. That lasted for a couple decades. I had them for other engineers to use at my studio but never got on well with them... personally I always tracked and mixed through my Westlake Audio system.
Old 4 days ago
  #137
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Silvertone's Avatar
Mixing room and mastering room...
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Why is it that most mastering studios do NOT use "studio monitors"?-8dbb8c58-39e4-4604-8e83-c8494574d8f5.jpeg   Why is it that most mastering studios do NOT use "studio monitors"?-345d5731-aa0e-476c-acf3-c512dad20e34.jpeg   Why is it that most mastering studios do NOT use "studio monitors"?-2e07999d-89c5-452c-8e2a-d589d49ff677.jpeg   Why is it that most mastering studios do NOT use "studio monitors"?-c101f497-ce0b-4f63-b889-a55c66921be1.jpg  
Old 1 day ago
  #138
Gear Nut
 
eternalsound's Avatar
You'll find in mastering, like a lot of other things, that it's not what you do, but instead who you are doing it. For example, a major label mastering engineer could master on nearfields and it would silence many mouths. So, in short, yes you can master on nearfields ...but ...you would be positioned in ....nearfield range. To say you can only master on high-dollar luxury midfield speakers is in reality to be no more than a slave to the rule.
Old 1 day ago
  #139
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
i use a little fostex as a mono checker, works great to listen to the core of the mix; kick, bass, snare, vocal balances.
and is the compleat opposite of the big Duns.
then a Grado HP check if needed.
my NS-10s live in my office...
jt
Old 1 day ago
  #140
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SASMastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE201 View Post
UK mastering legend Kevin Metcalfe uses NS10's (shocker)..

Quite the impressive CV (Queen, David Bowie, Kinks, The Who, ELO, The Police, U2, etc etc) :


Kevin Metcalfe engineer at Soundmasters International
I can see the the spokes in the Volt bass drivers which look like soffit mounted PMC's at a guess. Many have a secondary set of nearfields.

"If it sounds good on NS-10's it'll sound good on anything"... Why not mix on anything then ?
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