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Side peaks ?
Old 9th January 2018
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Side peaks ?

Hello everyone,

i'm still a learner about mastering, so i decided to analyze my masters and my reference tracks. I notice one thing, my side peaks are ALWAYS lower than my reference tracks.

here is my master :



here is my reference :



All the reference tracks i analyzed seems like this, the side peaks are close from -0.0 dB and my masters are more like -6 dB.

Should I push the side of my masters? It's weird because generally i feel like i don't need to do, but maybe there is something i don't understand for the moment ?
Old 9th January 2018
  #2
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 

It could be something as simple as the snares in your reference having more stereo spread. There is absolutely nothing to worry about with these numbers and very little to be learned from studying them that will make your music better IMO.

My advice would be to focus on what you hear and listen to your creativity. [With the exception of clipping] don't ever do anything because a number or meter (or web tutorial) makes you feel like you should; ESPECIALLY if your ears don't agree.
Old 9th January 2018
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
I agréé with you about this, to not worry about numbers ans more about ears. I just post this because this happen everytime. And when i mix or master, i compare myself to thé very top engineer and it's always c'going around thèse numbers so i was curious. I trust those mastering engineer so i felt like i Can learn from them.

I look at numbers mostly because of loudness, people still Care to bé competitive. Streaming improved this aspect, but most musicien doesnt have the knowledge yet. It will take time i think
Old 10th January 2018
  #4
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Hermetech Mastering's Avatar
 

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It would be be better to look at the side averages rather than side peaks, but it's still silly to go by the numbers, IMO. Do your masters sound more "mono" than others? Identify if there is a problem first, then plan the steps to fix it if needed, then fix it. Numbers not needed, ears you shall use.
Old 13th January 2018
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
It would be be better to look at the side averages rather than side peaks, but it's still silly to go by the numbers, IMO. Do your masters sound more "mono" than others? Identify if there is a problem first, then plan the steps to fix it if needed, then fix it. Numbers not needed, ears you shall use.
quoted for truth!

all those analysis numbers mean nothing when compared to...

critical listening.

dont obsess over it.

jt
Old 14th January 2018
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb View Post
critical listening.
Some issues such as strong DC offset can be really hard to hear, though. It think that's where such tools make sense.
Old 14th January 2018
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FabienTDR View Post
Some issues such as strong DC offset can be really hard to hear, though. It think that's where such tools make sense.
This is something that continues to puzzle me. If there's enough DC to make the audio pop on start/stop then that's pretty audible isn't it? If there isn't, then how is that a problem?

What sort of reading would you consider a problematic level of DC Fabien?

I'm not being beligerent. These are genuine questions I've never been able to get clarity on. It would be good to get your thoughts on this.
Old 14th January 2018
  #8
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Apostolos Siopis's Avatar
 

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They will report dc even when there isn't...so not so useful even for that
Old 14th January 2018
  #9
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone View Post
This is something that continues to puzzle me. If there's enough DC to make the audio pop on start/stop then that's pretty audible isn't it? If there isn't, then how is that a problem?
yeah that loud pop when the DC offset is extreme is obvious.

and the waveforms make it visually obvi as well.

but a simple HPF takes care of it 5-10Hz...

which I often use when pitching anyway.

best, jt

btw, i’ve never seen that analyzer, why would you need so much data, when critical listening will tell the tale?

not to pick on the OP or Fabien...
Old 14th January 2018
  #10
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Because most people seem to prefer to look at numbers to tell them about the audio, rather than listen critically on a good system, these days. :(
Old 14th January 2018
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Of course I prefer to use my ears to train my skills, i know it's the only way. I just did this topic because i was very curious about this precise point. Like maybe something i was missing, but it seems not
Old 15th January 2018
  #12
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirito View Post
Of course I prefer to use my ears to train my skills, i know it's the only way. I just did this topic because i was very curious about this precise point. Like maybe something i was missing, but it seems not
I don't think there's anything wrong with obsessing over details, and how to improve things. (as long as you can ultimately 'zoom-out' and keep them in context...)
I do agree with the above however, that the average side loudness would be much more relevant than the peak.
Old 15th January 2018
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone View Post
This is something that continues to puzzle me. If there's enough DC to make the audio pop on start/stop then that's pretty audible isn't it? If there isn't, then how is that a problem?
In this case it's probably not much of an issue. It makes more sense if you're compiling a set of analogue recorded samples and loops, or any other content that can't be reasonably monitored in real time. Or in other cases where the pop isn't that easy to find (say, within a mix, or when gates are engaged, or a rendered mix that had been faded already).

If you're experienced enough, and have a reliable monitoring system, you're probably on the safe side anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone View Post
What sort of reading would you consider a problematic level of DC Fabien?
I'd consider 0Hz as illegal content. Whether it is worth being removed is a different story of course.

The main reason why it's so hard to reach -inf DC in such measurements is the fact that they aren't really correct. A DC measurement demands an infinite audio sample, if you don't, you'll get errors. That's the small "DC offsets" you get to see when measuring signals of finite length. The DC could well really be a perfectly OK 0.000001Hz partial, but the file is too short to be measured with certainty.


Back to the original post's question, imagine what happens when the "S" channel of an M/S processing setup produces DC. Sadly, that's nothing the analyzer above could detect, and would be really difficult to find by ear.

Generally, I agree that the "Side" channel peak level is probably the most irrelevant measure in this set.

Last edited by FabienTDR; 16th January 2018 at 01:50 AM..
Old 15th January 2018
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FabienTDR View Post
In this case it's probably not much of an issue. It makes more sense if you're compiling a set of analogue recorded samples and loops, or any other content that can't be reasonably monitored in real time. Or in other cases where the pop isn't that easy to find (say, within a mix, or when gates are engaged, or a rendered mix that had been faded already).

If you're experienced enough, and have a reliable monitoring system, you're probably on the safe side anyway.



I'd consider 0Hz as illegal content. Whether it is worth being removed is a different story of course.

The main reason why it's so hard to reach -inf DC in such measurements is the fact that they aren't really correct. A DC measurement demands an infinite audio sample, if you don't, you'll get errors. That's the small "DC offsets" you get to see when measuring signals of finite length. The DC could well really be a perfectly OK 0.000001Hz partial, but the file is too short to be measure it with certainty.


Back to the original post's question, imagine what happens when the "S" channel of an M/S processing setup produces DC. Sadly, that's nothing the analyzer above could detect, and would be really difficult to find by ear.

Generally, I agree that the "Side" channel peak level is probably the most irrelevant measure in this set.
Thanks Fabien.
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