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Hofa CD-Burn.DDP.Master DAW Software
Old 1st December 2017
  #1
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Hofa CD-Burn.DDP.Master

CD-Burn.DDP.Master | HOFA-Plugins

woah, talk about upping your game!

Looks like they are moving into the full mastering DAW...

Excited to try it.
Old 1st December 2017
  #2
I was waiting for that !!

But I received an email a while back saying that it would be free for Hofa CD burn&DDP/DDPplayermaker user (bought after March 1st 2107) and I can't find any licenses.
Did I miss something ??
Also DDPplayermaker v2 is here but we also need to upgrade.

EDIT : Everything is fine !! (they're helpfull at HOFA)
I didn't look that much

Last edited by Saxnscratch; 1st December 2017 at 02:36 PM.. Reason: update
Old 1st December 2017
  #3
Gear Nut
 
HOFA's Avatar
 

Hi,
we created grace licenses for all users who bought after March 1st 2107. These include the products HOFA CD-Burn.DDP.Master, HOFA DDP Player Maker and HOFA DDP Player. You have to activate the new license(s) using the Plugins Manager.
If you have any issues with that, please send us an email, so we can check manually your license

Hope you like the new version!

Fabian Freitag
HOFA GmbH
Old 1st December 2017
  #4
Mastering Moderator
 
Riccardo's Avatar
 

Verified Member
So I guess the bundle already includes the new version?
Old 1st December 2017
  #5
Gear Nut
 
HOFA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riccardo View Post
So I guess the bundle already includes the new version?
Exactly, the Super-Bundle, the CD- & DDP-Bundle and the CD-Burn.DDP.Master (App + Plugin) all include the new versions of the products

Fabian Freitag
HOFA GmbH
Old 1st December 2017
  #6
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will check this out !
Old 2nd December 2017
  #7
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Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOFA View Post
we created grace licenses for all users who bought after March 1st 2107. These include the products HOFA CD-Burn.DDP.Master, HOFA DDP Player Maker and HOFA DDP Player.
Look forward to update.
Curious if the new Hofa Master can operates at or can switch over to 24 bit for the vinyl assembly and plug-in processing or if it's 16 bit all through?
Old 2nd December 2017
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering View Post
Look forward to update.
Curious if the new Hofa Master can operates at or can switch over to 24 bit for the vinyl assembly and plug-in processing or if it's 16 bit all through?
from 16 to 32f
and from 44.1 to 384k
Old 2nd December 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxnscratch View Post
from 16 to 32f
and from 44.1 to 384k
Thanks. Was looking on the site, but didn't see that.
Makes things pretty convenient.
Old 2nd December 2017
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
Magnus Lindberg's Avatar
 

Quick test run today. Close but not 100% there is my first impression, hope I am wrong.
- I cant seem to change samplerate in the plugin, its stuck at 44,100 which also automatically does SRC when loading a hires file.
- In the app (and plugin) there is no info on the SRC, not in the manual either. SRC should be configurable and a part of the masterchain so you can put the limiter after if you want/need.
- Type of dither is not user configurable.
Old 2nd December 2017
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Lindberg View Post
Quick test run today. Close but not 100% there is my first impression, hope I am wrong.
I've also done quick tests yesterday and today.

Quote:
- I cant seem to change samplerate in the plugin, its stuck at 44,100 which also automatically does SRC when loading a hires file.
Project working samplerate in the plugin is automatically adapted from loaded mixdown file. Plugin is IMO primarily meant for working with single imported mixdown file with all tracks.
So if you need to do CD or DDP, then bounce continuous mixdown file to 44,1k before import to the plugin.
If you need to do some hi-res project in HOFA plugin, then bounce it and import at native rate. SRC will happen, only when you then export to formats, which doesn't support original rate (like DDP) or when you select some other rate (individual tracks).

Honestly plugin version never made much sense to me. I have just standalone version, where I import previously exported tracks from DAW and possibly do some sequencing before DDP export.

Quote:
- In the app (and plugin) there is no info on the SRC, not in the manual either. SRC should be configurable and a part of the masterchain so you can put the limiter after if you want/need.
Not sure about the idea of SRC in masterchain.. (there has to be some operational rate for whole project anyway, this kind of "pluggable" SRC somewhere in middle of processing chain is always bit complicated to implement).
However project audio files, which are converted by SRC after import, are stored in floating point PCM, so no clipping occurs there. If you like to put limiter or just lower the volume to avoid peaks over digital zero after import, you can do that without any harm.

Quote:
- Type of dither is not user configurable.
Yes, it's fixed to shaped dither.
I was also curious about that.. I've attached FFT plot of its 16 bit dither (yellow overlay there is flat TPDF).

Michal
Attached Thumbnails
Hofa CD-Burn.DDP.Master-hofa2_dither.png  
Old 2nd December 2017
  #12
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Yes, I don't think the SRC and dither is controllable enough for pro use.

I think they should add something similar to the WaveLab Custom Montage Duplicate so that you can assemble the project at a high sample rate such as 96k, then render your 24-bit/96k versions.

Then use your own SRC (Saracon, RX etc) on the original source files to 44.1k for example to a new subfolder, then point the app to recreate the project at 44.1k but keeping all other data intact, then you can render your DDP and/or 16/44 files.

The support of 3rd party plugins would allow you use your own dither plugin and have more control there.
Old 2nd December 2017
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Lindberg View Post
Quick test run today. Close but not 100% there is my first impression, hope I am wrong.
- I cant seem to change samplerate in the plugin, its stuck at 44,100 which also automatically does SRC when loading a hires file.
I have the same feeling,
I like to work with wav+cue so I can src the wav with the app I want and then import into Hofa.
I wish I could have the same timeline in parallele with different samplerate so I could easily export Hires, Vinyl, CD.... but each time I load a cue attached to a Hires wav it converts it to 44.1, it ony works if you import only the hires file after setting the right sample rate in the App.
Old 2nd December 2017
  #14
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It's not really suitable for those customized workflows with custom SRC or some more advanced tasks.
I'm not sure, where they generally aim with the software.
At current state, it might be just fine with its toolset, if you do everything there and don't really care about some additional tweaks.. In this case, it works well IMO and it's very quick to use. So any mixer or audio engineer can easily do album assembly, export MP3's with metadata etc. from the mixdown.

I personally use CD.Burn.DDP just for ancient format outputs (CDs or DDPs) and I'm very happy with that (finally reasonable priced software to cover this functionality, so anyone can extend his DAW for reliable DDP output). But in my case everything is already sequenced, dithered and in final sample rate.. before import. Because it's simply much more flexible to do that in DAW for me and also previous version loaded cuesheets from Reaper or Samplitude without any issues.
For Hi-Res, mp3 or so.. I don't use the software at all, it's just easier to do it elsewhere like in foobar2000.

Probably I will continue to use it that way and still thinking, whether I will upgrade to the new version, despite lot of improvements.. (likely yes, just to support a nice company).

Michal
Old 2nd December 2017
  #15
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That functionality, you're asking for, could be possibly implemented via improved "Replace audio" tool.
Normal "Replace audio" at selected clip allow you to browse for new audio file (like new mix revision or so), but it doesn't have any option to change project rate according to imported file.. so, when input file rate differs, it's always resampled to working one.
So that can't work for the use case with external resampler.
Maybe if they add something like "Replace all audio clips in project", which will open new dialog, where you could select option to change project sample rate and browse for all files from new location (Possibly with some fuzzy filename matching at the directory, where the first new file is located. So it will save you from browsing for new audio file at 20 clips).
That would certainly helps a lot for releases with multiple rates, because it would be possible to just save a copy of the project and simply relink all the files to some new location with different sample rate.

Btw. project files (.hofacd) are human readable XML files. So you can already change project sample rate, clip filenames etc., but all time values (lengths, marker positions..) are in samples, so it needs to be recalculated, when changing sample rate. Not that, I'd do that manually, but if I need that, it wouldn't be probably so hard to cook some script for the transformations.

With regards to other possible improvement, I'd welcome there.. is some visible color scheme at meters (that's my all time issue with all HOFA software, that meters in 50 shades of gray doesn't work so well and there's a reason, why everybody else use something like green, yellow, red).

Michal
Old 2nd December 2017
  #16
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thermos's Avatar
Seems like a big step towards a fully fledged mastering daw, but not there yet. It definitely needs external plugin support, external editor support and more features. But its a big step in the right direction.
Old 2nd December 2017
  #17
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Personally, I'm not really sure, if I would be so happy with some "mastering DAW".. I can see reasons, some people prefer simple task oriented user interface to do job, but full-fledged DAWs has so many useful functions, which I'm used to, that I'm frankly skeptic, I could go back to these "smaller" applications.
Especially if you're working with both plugins and outboard effects. For instance Reaper with its item based FX processing, handling of hardware inserts, full automation, flexible buses, per-plugin dry/wet processing, freezing, its take system for retaining of various processed versions.. monitoring effects etc.
Of course there's currently few quite awkward things (snapping to CD frames grid, whole concept of generic markers misuse for tracks definitions, dichotomy with regions/tracks, no real metadata entry). But whenever I look at some dedicated mastering app (be it SB, Quattro, WL, Ozone), I always came back to generic DAW like Reaper, Samplitude.. even if it involve some additional work and skipping to additional applications at the end of project, manual writing some sheets and ctrl+c, ctrl+v with notepad

My personal dream would be.. Cockos will concentrate on those things and mastering workflow (introduce dedicate album/track markers which would carry metadata, mapped to all supported output formats). For me it's not so far from the optimal state. Or they will settle with some nice company - like HOFA and introduce very tight integration between Reaper handling main project, recording, processing and some app like CD-Burn.DDP.Master, which would involve quick exchange of dedicated track markers, metadata, automatic update of newly rendered files and versions. Maybe realized via some special Reaper native extension. That would be killer thing for me.

Michal
Old 2nd December 2017
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
Magnus Lindberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
Project working samplerate in the plugin is automatically adapted from loaded mixdown file. Plugin is IMO primarily meant for working with single imported mixdown file with all tracks.
So if you need to do CD or DDP, then bounce continuous mixdown file to 44,1k before import to the plugin.
If you need to do some hi-res project in HOFA plugin, then bounce it and import at native rate. SRC will happen, only when you then export to formats, which doesn't support original rate (like DDP) or when you select some other rate (individual tracks).

Honestly plugin version never made much sense to me. I have just standalone version, where I import previously exported tracks from DAW and possibly do some sequencing before DDP export.
That's how it should work. Not here, I cant set anything other than 44100 regardless of Reaper project samplerate and/or imported file sample rate. Maybe I am missing something...

I like the concept of a plugin inside reaper for this. HOFA (or someone else) needs to take it one step further though I think.
Old 3rd December 2017
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Hi Magnus,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Lindberg View Post
That's how it should work. Not here, I cant set anything other than 44100 regardless of Reaper project samplerate and/or imported file sample rate. Maybe I am missing something...
Hard to guess, what's happening at your DAW.
I don't think, it's possible to explicitly set sample rate in the plugin.
As I've mentioned, this info is taken automatically from imported mixdown or project file.
At least that's how it behaves at my setup.
So for example..
I can have DAW project/session natively at 96k, then I insert plugin there.
After it's UI launch it's at 96k (as indicated at top right corner) and it shows initial wizard, which asks for mixdown file.
Then I can browse say to 44,1k stereo file and its project automatically switch to that rate.. (and stays there).
It works also other way (like session at 44.1 and imported file is 96k). I've tested its demo now at Windows in Reaper and Pro Tools 12.

Of course, if you have CD project in the plugin in different rate than your DAW session, then realtime resampling is done when you initiate playback for preview (plugin has synchronized transport with DAW), because otherwise it would be impossible for plugin to pass audio back to DAW for auditioning.

Michal
Old 3rd December 2017
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
That functionality, you're asking for, could be possibly implemented via improved "Replace audio" tool.
Normal "Replace audio" at selected clip allow you to browse for new audio file (like new mix revision or so), but it doesn't have any option to change project rate according to imported file.. so, when input file rate differs, it's always resampled to working one.
So that can't work for the use case with external resampler.
Maybe if they add something like "Replace all audio clips in project", which will open new dialog, where you could select option to change project sample rate and browse for all files from new location (Possibly with some fuzzy filename matching at the directory, where the first new file is located. So it will save you from browsing for new audio file at 20 clips).
That would certainly helps a lot for releases with multiple rates, because it would be possible to just save a copy of the project and simply relink all the files to some new location with different sample rate.

Btw. project files (.hofacd) are human readable XML files. So you can already change project sample rate, clip filenames etc., but all time values (lengths, marker positions..) are in samples, so it needs to be recalculated, when changing sample rate. Not that, I'd do that manually, but if I need that, it wouldn't be probably so hard to cook some script for the transformations.

With regards to other possible improvement, I'd welcome there.. is some visible color scheme at meters (that's my all time issue with all HOFA software, that meters in 50 shades of gray doesn't work so well and there's a reason, why everybody else use something like green, yellow, red).

Michal
I like your idea of replace audio.
In my case, I export only one wav file+cue from my main DAW so I just have to replace one file which cover the complete sequence, no need to browse for individual file.
This option would make everything so much easier.
Old 4th December 2017
  #21
Gear Nut
 
HOFA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Lindberg View Post
That's how it should work. Not here, I cant set anything other than 44100 regardless of Reaper project samplerate and/or imported file sample rate. Maybe I am missing something...
Hi, could you please send us more information (DAW, plugin format, OS) and a sample file per mail to [email protected] ?
Thanks

Fabian Freitag
HOFA GmbH
Old 13th December 2017
  #22
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Verified Member
Finally upgraded!

One thing I'd love is when you export digital wavs from the session you could also do a parallel lossy export at the same time.

I.e EXPORT WAV+MP3
Old 15th December 2017
  #23
Gear Nut
 
HOFA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
Finally upgraded!

One thing I'd love is when you export digital wavs from the session you could also do a parallel lossy export at the same time.

I.e EXPORT WAV+MP3
Hi, thanks for your suggestion! We will consider it

Best regards,
Fabian Freitag
HOFA GmbH
Old 15th December 2017
  #24
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Justin P.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOFA View Post
Hi, thanks for your suggestion! We will consider it

Best regards,
Fabian Freitag
HOFA GmbH
Ideally the mp3s could be created from 32-bit floating point and only the exported WAVs would be dithered to the desired bit-depth.
Old 15th December 2017
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin P. View Post
Ideally the mp3s could be created from 32-bit floating point and only the exported WAVs would be dithered to the desired bit-depth.
Good point,

Although not all inputted audio will be a set spec so that would probably need a prompt.

I often prepare and listen to everything in the destination bit/samplerate THEN import and do the meta data and PQ.
Old 15th December 2017
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOFA View Post
Hi, thanks for your suggestion! We will consider it

Best regards,
Fabian Freitag
HOFA GmbH
In fact, one step better would be a check box system for all the exports.

Generally I am going to be exporting DDP, Digital wavs, MP3s and PDF at once.
Old 15th December 2017
  #27
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Justin P.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
In fact, one step better would be a check box system for all the exports.

Generally I am going to be exporting DDP, Digital wavs, MP3s and PDF at once.
Yeah, I'm still not using this app for regular work because I find the WaveLab montage so much more powerful but I like having this as a backup for certain scenarios and it's not all that far off from replacing the WaveLab montage for me.

It's certainly better than WaveLab Elements but I have such a great workflow with WaveLab Pro dialed in that it will take a seriously awesome app to ever replace it for me.
Old 15th December 2017
  #28
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Havent had the time to really test it yet, but all in all it feels just half baked to me. It has potential for sure. But to be true I had higher hopes here.
Third party plug ins, different dither shapes (or even better: the possibility to use plug ins here too.) are a must imho.

Love to see a kind of "layer based" workaround for all kind if different formats (DDP, vinyl, streaming...) with individual bitrates, samplerates and all with their own limiter and outputlevels too.
Old 15th December 2017
  #29
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Yeah, I think their goal for now is to keep this a really basic app.

I'd love to see a Pro version where you can do more advanced things as you can in say WaveLab in the montage etc.

It's a solid starting point for a basic app.
Old 15th December 2017
  #30
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I haven't used yet nor I know the people behind it but it is a nice change to see they are interested in expanding/developing their software application through listening to day to day users and above all to mastering engineers for a change and not just some endorsee working in all fields of music except mastering.
If the succeed in expanding its functionality whilst listening to real users and keeping it stable ( hint , hint!) they surely have a potential winner.
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