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Replacing my 3rd EQ Equalisers (HW)
Old 1 week ago
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Replacing my 3rd EQ

I know most of you guys are enjoying gear talk, so here we go. r
Though it could be inspiring to share some random thoughts regarding replacing my Manley Mini Massive. See also: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mast...ring-gear.html
My chain normally contains BP Net EQ or Roger Schult EQ, Hendyamp MA and the MM.
While I really like the Mini Massive with its usefull and unique sound I more and more have the feel it does not fit my chain anymore and gets less and less use. Its use is mainly a linebuffer stage after my CompOne and for some additional broad strokes often in M/S
So Im looking for a "small" EQ, dual mono, all solid state, no transformers with powerfull, clean but not grey sounding in/out stages and high headroom.
Boxtone is very important to me and Im ideally looking for clean, but not boring here. Transformers will not workhere unfortunately.
Mid bands should be really usefull in a way. Pots are not a problem to me.

One EQ I know a bit is the classy Avalon AD2055, but which to me has some issues: fiddly knobs with too much gain range, sound of the EQ maybenot exactly what Im looking for, boxtone while with some cool class A attitude brings some glassy hardness to the mids if I remember correctly.

Elysia Museq looks great, but without bypass per band (wtf...?) and maybe not the perfect addition to the clean Barry Porter EQ?

NSEQ (man ,the name alone is a nogo for every german...) looks great to, but from what I read really needs the FF-Mod which makes it too costly for the moment I think.

Q-Faktor is cool too, but lacks some mid freq.

Prefer to buying used in this case, so testing before purchase isnt really an option.
So, any thoughts on topic or off topic are very welcome. 1,2,3,4....
Old 1 week ago
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Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
I know most of you guys are enjoying gear talk, so here we go. r
Though it could be inspiring to share some random thoughts regarding replacing my Manley Mini Massive. See also: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mast...ring-gear.html
My chain normally contains BP Net EQ or Roger Schult EQ, Hendyamp MA and the MM.
While I really like the Mini Massive with its usefull and unique sound I more and more have the feel it does not fit my chain anymore and gets less and less use. Its use is mainly a linebuffer stage after my CompOne and for some additional broad strokes often in M/S
So Im looking for a "small" EQ, dual mono, all solid state, no transformers with powerfull, clean but not grey sounding in/out stages and high headroom.
Boxtone is very important to me and Im ideally looking for clean, but not boring here. Transformers will not workhere unfortunately.
Mid bands should be really usefull in a way. Pots are not a problem to me.

One EQ I know a bit is the classy Avalon AD2055, but which to me has some issues: fiddly knobs with too much gain range, sound of the EQ maybenot exactly what Im looking for, boxtone while with some cool class A attitude brings some glassy hardness to the mids if I remember correctly.

Elysia Museq looks great, but without bypass per band (wtf...?) and maybe not the perfect addition to the clean Barry Porter EQ?

NSEQ (man ,the name alone is a nogo for every german...) looks great to, but from what I read really needs the FF-Mod which makes it too costly for the moment I think.

Q-Faktor is cool too, but lacks some mid freq.

Prefer to buying used in this case, so testing before purchase isnt really an option.
So, any thoughts on topic or off topic are very welcome. 1,2,3,4....
Shameless plug alert... I m selling my nseq...no mod...perfect condition
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by the fxs View Post
Thanks, but 500 series and high headroom does not really goes together, though.
Why these bereich-3? How they compare to the ones I mentioned, beside from being just 500s?
I also forgot to mentioned that I tried quite some IC-based designs in that position of the MM and most of them failed. And I cant really see how a 500 module would outperform f.e. a ADT toolmod here in any way...?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Odeon-Mastering View Post
Shameless plug alert... I m selling my nseq...no mod...perfect condition
Shame on you, really...
Cool, I will have a look, thanks.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
I can imagine you are DIY oriented if you use a BP EQ. Then I can recommend you an Igor Sontec.

I know I must be biased because I recently got mine but it's a really nice piece of gear: no transformers, 5 bands (4 parametric, 1 shelf with switchable 6-12dB range, highs goes up beyond 22kHz), very clean, not sterile.
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by leitmo View Post
I can imagine you are DIY oriented if you use a BP EQ. Then I can recommend you an Igor Sontec.

I know I must be biased because I recently got mine but it's a really nice piece of gear: no transformers, 5 bands (4 parametric, 1 shelf with switchable 6-12dB range, highs goes up beyond 22kHz), very clean, not sterile.
Thanks for the idea, but 1. it feels a bit too much for just a 3rd EQ (Im mainly looking for some bonus here, one or two great, unique bands. And especially for an extraordinary good in/out stage with plenty of power and a great, uncompressed boxtone with natural 3D, depth and effortlesness). And 2. I really do not think the Sontec clones could deliver this. At least the ones I heard in the past definitly could not. And 3. it took me quite some years to get the BP (build by a reputated tech) to an usuable state with a lot of grey hair involved. So, Im not looking for another DIY odysee atm...
BTW: I also own a Roger Schult EQ and two ADTs which are great too, but does not really fit the position of the MM.

Im very aware that my expectations are tight and that theresno way around trying things out by myself. But I appreciate all input and gear talk here.

Atm Im really lurking especially at the Museq, but description of people confuses me a bit: some say its soft and smooth, some call it gritty or edgy... Hows the boxtone? How are the mid bands? It still feels bit toomuch with its 5 bands... Man, I really love to see more 2 to 3 band designs out there which arent aiming in the tube/transformer corner. As much as I love tubes I somewhat feels just too restricted due to the need of transformers. Live could be so easy using just software, really...

The DAV EQ might be something too. But after the GS hype here I see most ppl selling it and Im also a bit sceptical if it could fit my needs regarding in/out amps...?

Last edited by JP__; 1 week ago at 02:59 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #7
nothing is even close to an MM - you won't be able to replace it, so it's still in my rack (besides some quite decent eq' s).
I wouldn't consider the dav in your setup, you already have some more neutral solidstate eq's with adt, porter and schult- I wonder why you don't consider more complementary colors - the michelangelo is pretty much alone in the passive tube and transformer corner.
elysia is also "so german" - do you really need it again?
between your clean and the michelangelo there is still a lot of room for other concepts.
api? the new a-design finesse? tubetech? gyraf? maybe something "really tasty" like a soma?

in order to be prepared for all situations, you should have a wide range of colours. I would probably throw out the MM in your setup as one of the last ones (and you know how much I don't like unstitched devices) and I'd rather consider whether the more neutral colleagues are schult, porter and adt don't belong in - and then take out the adt.
would probably make the MM more interesting again.

Last edited by teebaum; 1 week ago at 02:54 PM..
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by teebaum View Post
nothing is even close to an MM - you won't be able to replace it, so it's still in my rack (besides some quite decent eq' s).
I wouldn't consider the dav in your setup, you already have some more neutral solidstate eq's with adt, porter and schult- I wonder why you don't consider more complementary colors - the michelangelo is pretty much alone in the passive tube and transformer corner.
elysia is also "so german" - do you really need it again?
between your clean and the michelangelo there is still a lot of room for other concepts.
api? the new a-design finesse? tubetech? gyraf? maybe something "really tasty" like a soma?

in order to be prepared for all situations, you should have a wide range of colours. I would probably throw out the MM in your setup as one of the last ones (and you know how much I don't like unstitched devices) and I'd rather consider whether the more neutral colleagues are schult, porter and adt don't belong in - and then take out the adt.
would probably make the MM more interesting again.
Teebaum, I appreciate your contribution. Thanks.
Yes, it aint easy. And yes, the Mm is unique. But its a very chain specific thing here, it just feels contra productive when switched in, unfortunately.
I really need a solid state unit here because of the fix placement within the chain. So, this topic is definitly not about the next cool EQ (which would make things much easier for me of course). Even when I was about to order a HLT AM or G23 several times in the past, the problem is: I do not know where to put them without ****ing off the chain completly...
So, yes I kind of looking for a EQ between the clean BP and the really colored MA. A Mini Massive kind of EQ, but just different in hope it works better over here.

You know that my approach regarding the chain is very different to yours. I run a fixed one and I need most in/out stages switched in. Combining colors is then by switching EQ bands to taste. A eather/ or approach just do not work for me as the inner balance of the chain is crudical to me. Just bypass one unit to switch in another will make it collaps in my experience. I really cant imagine to work like that.
What could work are two or more separated chain of course. But for now I do not really feel the need.

Within the last month I very much reduced my chain to BP, ADT comp, Rockruepel, MA and occasionally the MM. All others stuff is out atm and I feel very happy, beside the slight mismatch with the MM which I now try to solve in this thread.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Teebaum, I appreciate your contribution. Thanks.
Yes, it aint easy. And yes, the Mm is unique. But its a very chain specific thing here, it just feels contra productive when switched in, unfortunately.
I really need a solid state unit here because of the fix placement within the chain. So, this topic is definitly not about the next cool EQ (which would make things much easier for me of course). Even when I was about to order a HLT AM or G23 several times in the past, the problem is: I do not know where to put them without ****ing off the chain completly...
So, yes I kind of looking for a EQ between the clean BP and the really colored MA. A Mini Massive kind of EQ, but just different in hope it works better over here.

You know that my approach regarding the chain is very different to yours. I run a fixed one and I need most in/out stages switched in. Combining colors is then by switching EQ bands to taste. A eather/ or approach just do not work for me as the inner balance of the chain is crudical to me. Just bypass one unit to switch in another will make it collaps in my experience. I really cant imagine to work like that.
What could work are two or more separated chain of course. But for now I do not really feel the need.

Within the last month I very much reduced my chain to BP, ADT comp, Rockruepel, MA and occasionally the MM. All others stuff is out atm and I feel very happy, beside the slight mismatch with the MM which I now try to solve in this thread.
the MM is a "pultec"-style - a passive eq with coils, but solid state.
if you want to replace these wide bells, there's probably only a passive eq.

maybe the q-factor?
http://www.united-minorities.de/q-faktor.html

Last edited by teebaum; 1 week ago at 05:03 PM..
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum View Post
the MM is a "pultec"-style - a passive eq with coils, but solid state.
if you want to replace these wide bells, there's probably only a passive eq.

maybe the q-factor?
Q-Faktor | United-Minorities
Yes, but its lacking some important mid freq, doesnt it? Cant really find later infos on this.
For me the MM does not sound very like a typical passive EQ, so I dont feel limited to a passive or even pultec design.

The most important thing to me is boxtone and the capability to drive any impedances. EQ is rather secondary here.

Last edited by JP__; 1 week ago at 06:05 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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Just build a stereo 3 bands Davelizer.

That Corp in-out, you can choose your freq and go.
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
So Im looking for a "small" EQ, dual mono, all solid state, no transformers with powerfull, clean but not grey sounding in/out stages and high headroom.
Boxtone is very important to me and Im ideally looking for clean, but not boring here. Transformers will not workhere unfortunately.
Mid bands should be really usefull in a way. Pots are not a problem to me.
Aside from "small", sounds like the NSEQ-F (Forssell mod) to me. Start with the stock NSEQ-2 (in solid state mode) then add the replacement board.
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Chapelle View Post
Just build a stereo 3 bands Davelizer.

That Corp in-out, you can choose your freq and go.
Might share some files then?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Dempsey View Post
Aside from "small", sounds like the NSEQ-F (Forssell mod) to me. Start with the stock NSEQ-2 (in solid state mode) then add the replacement board.
Thanks. I never really looked at it in the past, so excuse my beginner question: from what I read the stock version has unbalanced outs? Means level drop in a throughout balanced chain, which unfortunately is a no go for me at the position I need that EQ for. Too bad...
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Might share some files then?




Thanks. I never really looked at it in the past, so excuse my beginner question: from what I read the stock version has unbalanced outs? Means level drop in a throughout balanced chain, which unfortunately is a no go for me at the position I need that EQ for. Too bad...
Sontec is unbalanced out. Still high level.
Old 1 week ago
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Ben, its not about too low level or headroom issues per se. Its about a significant leveldrop of 6dB within the chain due to the unbalanced out which would **** up my complete gainstaging within the chain, unfortunately.
Im really looking for a tool here to support my chain, not one that forces me to reconfigurate everything. A workhorse, not a diva....
If theres nothing out there, I can easily live with that, but I have still hopes for now.

I can really see why some very few guys here, like Thermos or Lucey reduced their chains to the max. We all are here for a reason at gearslutz and as much I love great analog gear (and theres many cool stuff out there these days for sure and GAS is constantly high) it all is useless when it does not support the personal setup...
Old 1 week ago
  #16
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A Neve 8803

Just ordered one and have 0 experience with it, but I think it fits the workhorse vs. a Diva requirement Also, software recallable.
Old 1 week ago
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In my setup I have a Sontec 430B (quite a bit reworked and very clean), Dangerous Bax, NSEQ-FF, Focusrite 315 (very modded), Hendy MA. I use the BAX on almost every project and would cry without it.
Dave
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post

NSEQ (man ,the name alone is a nogo for every german...) looks great to, but from what I read really needs the FF-Mod which makes it too costly for the moment I think.

Q-Faktor is cool too, but lacks some mid freq.

Prefer to buying used in this case, so testing before purchase isnt really an option.
So, any thoughts on topic or off topic are very welcome. 1,2,3,4....
I havn´t upgraded my NSEQ2 to FF mod as it does exactly what I need. so far it has been a solid workhorse for me without feeling the need of an upgrade. but´let´s see what the future will bring...
got mine not too expensive second hand a few years ago. so if you get one second hand without FF mod it might still be an option? not saying it couldn´t be better with FF mod (heard, but havn´t tested one with FF mod yet) but to say it "really needs" the upgrade to become an excelent EQ is IMO not true. I know people who prefer it without.
Old 1 week ago
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Thanks guys.

Can the NSEQ guys confirm the unbalance out with a level drop in the stock version of the unit when using it in full balanced chain?
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
My chain normally contains BP Net EQ or Roger Schult EQ, Hendyamp MA and the MM.
Are you using the Roger Schult UF1, UF2 or their 500 series?
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Thanks guys.

Can the NSEQ guys confirm the unbalance out with a level drop in the stock version of the unit when using it in full balanced chain?
I´m using it with the balanced ins and outs and at least in this configuration without any level drop...
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering View Post
Are you using the Roger Schult UF1, UF2 or their 500 series?
6x W2377 modules in a custom housing with a custom PSU running at 50V.
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by mastermat View Post
I´m using it with the balanced ins and outs and at least in this configuration without any level drop...
Specs look great: input 25k ohm, output less than 5ohm in SolidState mode. Crazy impressive, might really solve all my probs.
But I did not find anything about unbalanced outs in the manual. Am I missinformed here?
Old 1 week ago
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from the manual:
"(1) INPUTS "In 1 (Left), In 2 (Right)"
Conventional 3-pin female XLR input jacks for all balanced or unbalanced line level signals. In
-
put impedance is greater than 10k ohms when "10 dB" gain range switch is engaged (+/- 10dB),
greater than 40k ohms when gain range switch is disengaged (+/- 20dB), and greater than 100k
ohms when optional balanced inputs are installed. Standard NSEQ-2 line input is unbalanced
using pin 1 as chassis ground, pin two as signal, and pin 3 tied to audio ground.
(2) OUTPUTS "Out 1 (Left), Out 2 (Right)"
Conventional 3-pin male XLR output jacks. Output is unbalanced. Pin 1 is chassis ground, pin
2 is signal, and pin 3 is tied to audio ground. J-FET topology output impedance is 55 ohms.
Vacuum tube output impedance is 150 ohms. "

I 'm using it before the Pendulum Audio OCL-2 and have used it before Cranesong IBIS without any level drop.
Old 1 week ago
  #25
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Thanks for the info, I just have looked into the quick manual only yet and did not found any info.
I think I even favourite unbalance in/ outs due to its more puristic approach, but a level drop would be annoying. Good to hear that you do not bother with that.
Old 1 week ago
  #26
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I know it might looks "bigger" than what your looking for, but it sounds like either the MEA2 (rev 7) or even the Spl PQ to me (now this would be a bit excessive )

Yeah the MEA2 could be just the ticket. +28 db headroom, dual mono, Master bypass and per band bypass (when set at 0), wide to narrow Q or Shelf per band, very cool. Wide freq range on all bands + you get the extra low and high shelf if you're mainly using the mid bands.

Or go ADT V700 as it looks killer really, but I have not heard it...
Old 1 week ago
  #27
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Again somebody mentions ADT V700.. yet there are _zero_ audio demos or anything on the internet. Has anybody ever actually heard these various units? I'm really interested in their compressor modules but there's virtually zero deep discussions about their sonics and behavior and absolutely no videos or audio demos.

Feels almost like vapor ware of some sort.. or like some super high-end wannabe stuff that nobody discusses because they are too ashamed of it's performance? No idea what's going on but could somebody please sort me out with some audio demonstrations of what any of the ADT stuff is all about?

It's obviously an old company and there are tons of discussions about it everywhere all the way back to early 2000.. using google. But nothing on Youtube, nothing on Vimeo.. no audio examples anywhere. Only anecdotal evidence that the stuff is "good".
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by the unik View Post
I know it might looks "bigger" than what your looking for, but it sounds like either the MEA2 (rev 7) or even the Spl PQ to me (now this would be a bit excessive )

Yeah the MEA2 could be just the ticket. +28 db headroom, dual mono, Master bypass and per band bypass (when set at 0), wide to narrow Q or Shelf per band, very cool. Wide freq range on all bands + you get the extra low and high shelf if you're mainly using the mid bands.

Or go ADT V700 as it looks killer really, but I have not heard it...
One "big" EQ (Barry Porter) is definitly enough to me. I even have a Roger Schult build in spare, so I cant really see a MEA or PQ in my rack.

Beside the diff in/out stages and other details ADTs tool mod series definitly based on the bigger brother V700. Im very familair with a lot of toolmod stuff and already own three pieces.

I look in something different here even when I cant really tell what exactly. Not bigger than 2U, with tube-alike (fast and wide and open and deep) boxtone with transformerless amps that could deliver something I missed from most other devices I tried yet. If the EQ bands can deliver something special on top of that, great.
So, a very special request I think about a topic I rarely read about here; the ideal buffer stage between two transformers without getting in the way with its own sound. But maybe a blank cable is just the best solution in this case...
Wondering how you guys handle this? Anyone running transformers back to back and prefering this? If so, why?
Old 1 week ago
  #29
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Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
Again somebody mentions ADT V700.. yet there are _zero_ audio demos or anything on the internet. Has anybody ever actually heard these various units? I'm really interested in their compressor modules but there's virtually zero deep discussions about their sonics and behavior and absolutely no videos or audio demos.

Feels almost like vapor ware of some sort.. or like some super high-end wannabe stuff that nobody discusses because they are too ashamed of it's performance? No idea what's going on but could somebody please sort me out with some audio demonstrations of what any of the ADT stuff is all about?

It's obviously an old company and there are tons of discussions about it everywhere all the way back to early 2000.. using google. But nothing on Youtube, nothing on Vimeo.. no audio examples anywhere. Only anecdotal evidence that the stuff is "good".
I think its because we (internet guys) tend to live in a kind of parallel world or bubble, especially whenit comes to gear. There are the branches that are active there, their stuff gets bought by people who loved to post in forums or even doing videos.
I can talk about two local brands; RS and ADT. Both kind of similar in approach, yet very different in PR. Roger loves to be around at trade shows and to publish cool youtube clips. But I or any of my friends never ever saw Gerd Jüngling from ADT at a trade show.
Same with other (german) manufactures like United Minorities, that do absolute top notch stuff (speakers, amps, EQs, mics, cables...), but are simply not presented in the www (beside some outdated websites and a hint in a forum here and there). Or as many, many developers of all kind of speakers.
And I know quite a lot of engineers that happily use their stuff, but never would write about in the www out of princibles.
Dont get me wrong, I love the possibilities here especially when its about gear. But we always should aware, that we are only a (small) part in the audio engineers world. A thing thats gets often lost in those kind of discussions (which never can show the big window). So, most gear hypes here are what they are and may have nothing or not so much to do with the "real" world. Its all in all a quite distorted view when you mainly try to get your info via the www.
Even to me, who is here around for years, some things really feel strange still: ppl love to post all kind of reviews of gear (even from plug ins we all can easily demo by ourself...) or even doing youtube clips demoing or unpacking stuff. Yes, sometimes fun to watch in a boring evening, but without real meaningfullness for our own work, isnt it.

Regarding the V700: its just bloody expensive, even for mastering gear. ADTs stuff is not about magic or bling bling gear (even when you are able to order in a very colorfull look), just about tools. Its all made in house and to order. They do nearly no advertising and mostly sell in broadcast I think, but they do offering very unique tools nobody else does because of simply economically reasons. Another example with the same approach is Lake People which gets a little bit of worldwide attention after selling their stuff under the Violectric brand in good looking housings mostly aimed at the HIFI market.

Another important point: industry hypes are mostly simply US driven. Its just that another approach at trying to get big on a market, and we internet guys are very much focussed on that...

EDIT: the world has (at least partly) really changed to a show and presentation kind of interaction; good look and an eloquent language is more and more important than real strengths, at least in a forum or youtube clip. A person or manufacture that do not shout "here I am" periodically gets forgotten very fast. Good work is only a very small part of "success" (whatever this word really means...).


Some people over here call it "Americanization" and are proud to not be part of it.

Last edited by JP__; 1 week ago at 12:40 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #30
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Quote:
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Might share some files then?
Hey, Sorry for the late answer.

I should have a couple of stereo PCB boards laying somewhere at the studio.

Let me try to find out, and do it via email.

Speak soon.
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