The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
listen to these files with EQ plugins in "bypass", your opinion please
Old 1st November 2017
  #1
Lives for gear
 
inlinenl's Avatar
 

Verified Member
listen to these files with EQ plugins in "bypass", your opinion please

I wonder if I'm hearing correct, the 1 & 2 versions are the same brand, sample 3 is a different PLUG. The original mix is added. The plugins are not on FULL bypass , just all bands are off ... okay I'm listening on FULL range B&W800's and for me the diff is pretty obvious/remarkable ..

I'm wondering what your opinions are :

download link : https://we.tl/26nsQpwBB5

these tracks/samples are okayed by the LABEL !
Old 1st November 2017
  #2
Lol hoping 1 and 2 aren't ours

It seems to me that 1 & 2 reduce the signal's bandwidth. Much like a low pass filter put over the whole audio.
Old 1st November 2017
  #3
Lives for gear
 
inlinenl's Avatar
 

Verified Member
thnx for listening Fabian, glad you hear what I hear ... for me the low_end collapses in 1 & 2, 3 is pretty OK ..
Old 1st November 2017
  #4
Gear Nut
Wow...
Old 2nd November 2017
  #5
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
What are the plugins Wim ? We won't tell anyone !
Old 2nd November 2017
  #6
Lives for gear
 
inlinenl's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by the unik View Post
What are the plugins Wim ? We won't tell anyone !

only if you report back )))
Old 2nd November 2017
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Apostolos Siopis's Avatar
 

Verified Member
You could easily verify what you are hearing with a null test. So what's the reason for this
thread. Just curious...
Old 2nd November 2017
  #8
Lives for gear
 
inlinenl's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odeon-Mastering View Post
You could easily verify what you are hearing with a null test. So what's the reason for this
thread. Just curious...
a 0 test is not listening ! & for me it's not about 0'ing , it's about what happens & makes it sound like it sounds.
And I'm interested to hear from other Me's if my observations are corrrect ! I can talk for hours to myself .. but ... )))
Old 2nd November 2017
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Apostolos Siopis's Avatar
 

Verified Member
well you started as "I wonder if I'm hearing correct..."
why wonder when you have a bullet proof method to verify your sanity?

null tests are mainly useful for such a situation (I also rarely use a null test ...except for QC)

sorry to be so blunt, but everyone here suspects that you want to ruffle someone's feathers

again...it would probably take you half the time it took you to write your very first post and also be 100% accurate
Old 2nd November 2017
  #10
Lives for gear
 
stinkyfingers's Avatar
 

its no mystery that some plug ins do stuff even when set to do nothing.
Old 2nd November 2017
  #11
Lives for gear
 
da goose's Avatar
In a null test the original and v3 cancel, so no difference. In 1 and 2 they don't null and you hear lowend from 20 to something like 500hz.
Null is the way to go with these kind of things.

But wondering what pluginns they are and how you used them. Oversampling, saturation or something like tube/analog mode or things like that.
Old 2nd November 2017
  #12
Lives for gear
 
inlinenl's Avatar
 

Verified Member
look guys for me a 0 test is really not interesting ( anyone can have it's own way of working, if you like 0'ing things , then all okay) , if I have to choose which plug_in to use, I start with listening if it suits the source/material .. in THIS case 1/2 are a NO go for me .. they just mess with this source way to much ..

anyway I don't need to 0 , 1 and 2 are adding a bit .. so all will be off ))
Old 2nd November 2017
  #13
Lives for gear
 
da goose's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
look guys for me a 0 test is really not interesting ( anyone can have it's own way of working, if you like 0'ing things , then all okay) , if I have to choose which plug_in to use, I start with listening if it suits the source/material .. in THIS case 1/2 are a NO go for me .. they just mess with this source way to much ..

anyway I don't need to 0 , 1 and 2 are adding a bit .. so all will be off ))
I get your point Wim, it's just that with this null test I proved that there is a difference to the lowend, which I think should not happen. That is why I asked for the settings (saturation etc) and what pluginns you used.
On the other hand, i'm 100% sure that your analog chain is also changing the sound and adding something even in bypass.
If it sounds good, it is good.
Old 2nd November 2017
  #14
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
Maybe he didn't thought about the nulling test in the first place, no big deal, and to share your listening impression is legit anyway.

So yeah difference between Original and sample 1 is really obvious in the lowend weight. Like a small 6db/oct lowcut starting at 15hz or something...and the peaks also changed.

Effectively if it's some Eq plugin with all bands off and which doesn't aim at emulating some tube/Traffo in/out stage or anything, then it's a little bit weird indeed...Always trust your ears
Old 2nd November 2017
  #15
Lives for gear
 
inlinenl's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by da goose View Post
I get your point Wim, it's just that with this null test I proved that there is a difference to the lowend, which I think should not happen. That is why I asked for the settings (saturation etc) and what pluginns you used.
On the other hand, i'm 100% sure that your analog chain is also changing the sound and adding something even in bypass.
If it sounds good, it is good.
Jeff, it was a ITB render with wavelab )) if it's no good, then it's no good also ...
Old 2nd November 2017
  #16
Lives for gear
 
da goose's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
Jeff, it was a ITB render with wavelab ))
I understand that, but what pluginns with what settings?
Old 2nd November 2017
  #17
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar


(this is just for my 800 posts )
Old 2nd November 2017
  #18
Lives for gear
 
inlinenl's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I'm in doubt to post the names ... I don't want to name/shame, I just want some confirmation on what I'm hearing
Old 2nd November 2017
  #19
Lives for gear
 
JP__'s Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by the unik View Post
Maybe he didn't thought about the nulling test in the first place, no big deal, and to share your listening impression is legit anyway.

So yeah difference between Original and sample 1 is really obvious in the lowend weight. Like a small 6db/oct lowcut starting at 15hz or something...and the peaks also changed.

Effectively if it's some Eq plugin with all bands off and which doesn't aim at emulating some tube/Traffo in/out stage or anything, then it's a little bit weird indeed...Always trust your ears
Havent had a listen yet, but this sounds to me like a typical DC-offset filter which unfortunately is kind of fixed feature in some plug ins. I would stay away from those as well as I want to decide myself if and how much I want to alter a source.
I dont want name names, but some developers seems to be quite ignorant here...

EDIT: I just had a listen. Interestingly, no. 2 and no. 3 (PLUG_1 and _2) are nulling themselfs, so I would guess its the same developer using the same fixed DC-offset filter in its plug ins.

Last edited by JP__; 2nd November 2017 at 11:52 AM..
Old 2nd November 2017
  #20
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
I'm in doubt to post the names ... I don't want to name/shame, I just want some confirmation on what I'm hearing
Indeed, so maybe by PM for those interested then ? Well you have my PM
Old 2nd November 2017
  #21
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
Mmm...well let us know what you think, but if it's a DC offset, then it's a pretty big one imo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Havent had a listen yet, but this sounds to me like a typical DC-offset filter which unfortunately is kind of fixed feature in some plug ins. I would stay away from those as well as I want to decide myself if and how much I want to alter a source.
I dont want name names, but some developers seems to be quite ignorant here...
Old 2nd November 2017
  #22
Lives for gear
 
JP__'s Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by the unik View Post
Mmm...well let us know what you think, but if it's a DC offset, then it's a pretty big one imo...
I think I even have found out the used plug in (a pretty popular tool here and it took me exactly one try...) and got it nulled with no. 2 and n. 3 at the time Im writing this....
But: its a feature not a bug, for sure.
The filter is 6dB one at 5Hz if I remember correct (its a while ago I tested it). So, maybe not very obvious from a freq point of view, but the phase gets altered too, of course, what results in what we hear.
All in all, phase distortion in the lows is something a lot of developers are willing to take in account I think as for quite some people its more important to see a clean DC area on their metering. But, especially with an accurate full range monitoring those things can become very annoying (especially when accumulate within the process).
We all know this from our analog tools or converters, but I would expect a plug in for professionals to let it untouched. But I doubt its really the norm out there...

Last edited by JP__; 2nd November 2017 at 11:50 AM..
Old 2nd November 2017
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Apostolos Siopis's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
look guys for me a 0 test is really not interesting ( anyone can have it's own way of working, if you like 0'ing things , then all okay) , if I have to choose which plug_in to use, I start with listening if it suits the source/material .. in THIS case 1/2 are a NO go for me .. they just mess with this source way to much ..

anyway I don't need to 0 , 1 and 2 are adding a bit .. so all will be off ))
of course you dont "need to"

you just asked whether you are hearing correctly (we got that

...all I m saying is that you did not have to post here, unless you wanted to share the plug in and prevent a newbie from using it, or shame the developer...
Old 2nd November 2017
  #24
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odeon-Mastering View Post
...all I m saying is that you did not have to post here, unless you wanted to share the plug in and prevent a newbie from using it, or shame the developer...
This is a free forum in a free world man, he can post whatever he wants. Especially when it's intention is (clearly) to share listening experience with other collegues (and even "newbies") and NOT shame any developer by not writing the plugin/brand's name.
Old 2nd November 2017
  #25
Lives for gear
 
JP__'s Avatar
 

Verified Member
I think a thread like this is very useful for us all to remember to do not trust in our tools blindly and to always do critical listening comparisons (sadly a lot of users seem do not do this).
I mean the used plug in is around here for years and gets high praises from our mastering members. So, the conclusion might be that most users havent really listened to it yet or they simply do not feel disturbed by this behaviour... Whatever.
Old 2nd November 2017
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Apostolos Siopis's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by the unik View Post
This is a free forum in a free world man, he can post whatever he wants. Especially when it's intention is (clearly) to share listening experience with other collegues (and even "newbies") and NOT shame any developer by not writing the plugin/brand's name.
...I never said it is forbidden (I ll never be a cop, ACAB)...



....I m just saying that if your own sanity is in question, there is a great tool
(which funnily enough it is far better, than expecting answers based on listening tests, by the same people who presumably have praised the plug in, in this public forum).
Old 2nd November 2017
  #27
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
Ok does anyone care to send me a PM and tell me what foolish plugin we're talking about anyway ?
Old 2nd November 2017
  #28
Or, y'know, just post it publicly, this being a public forum and all. I don't really see the need for any kind of secrecy here.
Old 2nd November 2017
  #29
Lives for gear
 
JP__'s Avatar
 

Verified Member
I dont know which plug ins Wim used in his test. But the TDR Nova without any engaged bands nearly nulls (>90dB) with the files PLUG_1 and _2.
I have also test it with the VST Analyser where you can see the simple DC-filter we might hear in those files.
I tried to talk to Fabien about it in the past and have also ask if it could be made a switchable feature instead (as it always annoys me while testing Nova), but never got any reply.
Attached Thumbnails
listen to these files with EQ plugins in "bypass", your opinion please-vstanalyser_nova.jpg  
Old 2nd November 2017
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Apostolos Siopis's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
I dont know which plug ins Wim used in his test. But the TDR Nova without any engaged bands nearly nulls (>90dB) with the files PLUG_1 and _2.
I have also test it with the VST Analyser where you can see the simple DC-filter we might hear in those files.
I tried to talk to Fabien about it in the past and have also ask if it could be made a switchable feature instead (as it always annoys me while testing Nova), but never got any reply.
Nova never sounded right...i never ran tests though as I never use dynamic equalizers...but many thanks for doing this for us.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump