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Eventide / Newfangled Audio Elevate
Old 1 week ago
  #31
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
Spent half an hour with this today - seems somewhere between Limitless and Ozone, but I'm certainly interested and impressed enough to spend quite a bit more time with it. Fairly sure I'll end up buying it.

Lots of Limitless equivalents (Separation = Adaptive Gain, Trans Sep = Adaptive Trans) so I have a handle on the overall principle. The ability to set per-band transient enhancement is very, very tidy.

Overall agreed on first sonic impressions; more up front than the natural sound of Limitless, but nowhere near as very-feckin-forward as Ozone 7 IRC IV. Intrigued by the changes there, but that's another story. Could be that Elevate gets used on darker stuff, Limitless on brighter, or something like that.

I'll be back with questions for the designer, I'm sure... good work though.
Tested Ozone 8 IRC IV last night, different animal. Much more even sounding. Elevate was winning the brightness wars in that test.
Old 1 week ago
  #32
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Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Tested Ozone 8 IRC IV last night, different animal. Much more even sounding. Elevate was winning the brightness wars in that test.
Ahhh FFS

*grudgingly gets demo and prepares to pay the outrageous upgrade fee*
Old 1 week ago
  #33
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Originally Posted by macc View Post
Ahhh FFS

*grudgingly gets demo and prepares to pay the outrageous upgrade fee*
Plugindiscounts.com. Actually quite un-outrageous! Matt Gray said IRC 3 sounds a bit better as well, but I haven't tried it yet.

In some testing last night, it seems that Elevate can be more forward with silly gain reduction, but more crunchy. IRC 4 sounds pretty useful now.

Ozone 8 sounds pretty dang good.

Last edited by thermos; 1 week ago at 04:02 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #34
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Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Plugindiscounts.com. Actually quite un-outrageous! Matt Gray said IRC 3 sounds a bit better as well, but I haven't tried it yet.

In some testing last night, it seems that Elevate can be more forward with silly gain reduction, but more crunchy. IRC 4 sounds pretty useful now.

Ozone 8 sounds pretty dang good.
Thanks.... sort of
Old 1 week ago
  #35
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So now Ozone 8 is winning?
Old 1 week ago
  #36
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In case you were experiencing crashes, extreme slowness with the UI open, or graphics problems, Elevate Bundle 1.0.5 should fix this, and is now available. This new version has a new OpenGL implementation which should fix almost all problems, and allows you to turn off OpenGL entirely, which should fix the rest.

https://www.eventideaudio.com/suppor...599/installers

Sorry for the problems, now on to feature requests.

Dan
Old 1 week ago
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
In case you were experiencing crashes, extreme slowness with the UI open, or graphics problems, Elevate Bundle 1.0.5 should fix this, and is now available. This new version has a new OpenGL implementation which should fix almost all problems, and allows you to turn off OpenGL entirely, which should fix the rest.

https://www.eventideaudio.com/suppor...599/installers

Sorry for the problems, now on to feature requests.

Dan
Is this update mainly for Windows Dan, or does it fix anything for Mac too ?

regards
Old 1 week ago
  #38
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Originally Posted by Beatworld View Post
Is this update mainly for Windows Dan, or does it fix anything for Mac too ?

regards
I've only heard of crash reports on Windows machines, but it does appear that some Macs were experiencing an extreme slow down with the OpenGL code. It also adds VST3 categories, fixes a Mono problem in VST3, and fixes a small memory leak in EQuivocate, so it's a good update for everyone.

Dan
Old 6 days ago
  #39
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Hi Dan,

I really want to spend more time with this and get to know it. I had a question about the Adaptive Speed jobby though.

One of the usual practices for a new limiter around here is to absolutely pummel some stuff through it. +36dB or whatever it is Elevate allows.

I always tend to think of Auto release modes as relaxing the sound, ie feedback of some sort. Spanking stuff with moderate-long releases on Elevate (say 5ms +) and 0% adaptive speed is flat/smooth. Feels like a long lookahead, basically. As you raise the Adaptive Speed it gets much more forward and crunchy, which suggests it's making things faster rather than relaxing it. What's the story? Understanding this control could be crucial to de-crunchifying things...

Also: Overall adaptive transient is at say, 10%. You go into the individual transient page and set one band to 120%. What's happening? Is the individual band setting scaled by the overall setting (giving 12% in this example), or completely independent?

Again, I really want to spend more time with this as I really dig the concept (the per-band adaptive transient is a selling point for my work), but it's busy as hell here. So if I've got something wrong then apologies.
Old 6 days ago
  #40
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Every time i open the VST plugin window of either: (Newfangled EQuivocate) or:
(Newfangled Elevate) , .

The interface within the vst plugin wrapper is black for a second before the: (GUI) , is seen.
Old 6 days ago
  #41
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Originally Posted by macmuse View Post
So now Ozone 8 is winning?
Wouldn't say winning but different enough to maybe be a preference. Ozone 8 is a bit more clear transparent warm and open and reaches out in space which is the best way I can describe the overall sound of the Ozone 8. Elevate is bright punchy and forward. Really hard to pick one for every duty although Ozone is definitely more balanced across the spectrum. Ozone is however latency/resource monster when adding in the Transient Emphasis so Im not sure I would ever be able to realistically use it with anything else engaged in the chain. IRC 3 is the sweet spot for me. Elevate has that immediate wow factor due to the characteristics outlined above so I would avoid using that one during sit in sessions as Im sure that is the sound most artists want. Ozone is a class act though, Ive never been a fan of Ozone's limiter past O5 but this is a real contender for me. Ive been playing with Elixir, O8Adv, Elevate, and later against Limiter No6 which has been my go to since release. DMG plugins including Limitless has this softness that I find appropriate on few of my material so I skipped it.
Old 6 days ago
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedinhopy View Post
Every time i open the VST plugin window of either: (Newfangled EQuivocate) or:
(Newfangled Elevate) , .

The interface within the vst plugin wrapper is black for a second before the: (GUI) , is seen.
Yes, the plug-in needs to determine if it can use the OpenGL renderer or if it needs to use a native renderer and this takes a brief moment. I'm hoping I can reduce this in a future build, but I wanted to get this build out to fix the crashes people were having.

Dan
Old 6 days ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
Hi Dan,

I really want to spend more time with this and get to know it. I had a question about the Adaptive Speed jobby though.

One of the usual practices for a new limiter around here is to absolutely pummel some stuff through it. +36dB or whatever it is Elevate allows.

I always tend to think of Auto release modes as relaxing the sound, ie feedback of some sort. Spanking stuff with moderate-long releases on Elevate (say 5ms +) and 0% adaptive speed is flat/smooth. Feels like a long lookahead, basically. As you raise the Adaptive Speed it gets much more forward and crunchy, which suggests it's making things faster rather than relaxing it. What's the story? Understanding this control could be crucial to de-crunchifying things...

Also: Overall adaptive transient is at say, 10%. You go into the individual transient page and set one band to 120%. What's happening? Is the individual band setting scaled by the overall setting (giving 12% in this example), or completely independent?

Again, I really want to spend more time with this as I really dig the concept (the per-band adaptive transient is a selling point for my work), but it's busy as hell here. So if I've got something wrong then apologies.
Yes, Adaptive Speed is not meant to be an Auto Release control, and what you say is mostly true (that turning up adaptive speed decreases overall release times).

If you're going to push a limiter above what would clip you're going to have some artifacts no matter what you do. Primarily, these artifacts are going to be Compression artifacts (pumping/breathing), Distortion artifacts, or, in the case of multi band limiters, Tonal Balance artifacts. The goal of Elevate is to use perceptual masking to hide these artifacts in places where the listener won't hear them.

If you turn the adaptive parameters all the way down, it acts as a single band look ahead limiter. This means that, from the limiter section, you'll only get compression artifacts when Speed is slow enough, or distortion artifacts if Speed is high enough. As you turn up Adaptive Speed it is going to allow the Speed to adapt to the signal in each band, which will probably be faster for the higher bands and slower for the lower bands. So, you will go from hearing either Compression or Distortion artifacts to a combination of Compression and Distortion artifacts, with the goal that, you'll hear less of the combination.

Now it may be that I tend to prefer Distortion to Compression artifacts and tuned the algorithm a bit differently than others would, but this would mean that you probably need to turn the Speed even slower than you would initially consider doing to get the sound you want to hear.
Old 6 days ago
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
Hi Dan,

Also: Overall adaptive transient is at say, 10%. You go into the individual transient page and set one band to 120%. What's happening? Is the individual band setting scaled by the overall setting (giving 12% in this example), or completely independent?

Again, I really want to spend more time with this as I really dig the concept (the per-band adaptive transient is a selling point for my work), but it's busy as hell here. So if I've got something wrong then apologies.
If you ignore Adaptive Transient for a second...

The per band transient scales the Transient Emphasis parameter. So if you have Transient Emphasis at 10% and you have the 100 Hz band at 120%, the 100 Hz band is getting 12% Transient Emphasis.

I think the best way to internalize the Adaptive Transient control is to go into the Transient page, run a drum loop through the plug-in and play with the Transient Emphasis and Adaptive Transient sliders while watching those orange band meters. You'll see that it allows each band to specialize to the signal in that band. It's pretty cool.

Dan
Old 6 days ago
  #45
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I tried the Elevate demo in Wavelab 9 Pro (win10/64) and something's wrong - the levels I see on the WL output do not match the levels shown in the Elevate meters. In fact, it actually seems like the audio is bypassing the limiter. Elevate shows -.10dB peaks, for example and WL meters are showing +3.45dB. I have no gain anywhere else in the system.

Anyone else come across this? What's wrong?
Old 6 days ago
  #46
No mastering guy here (I send my stuff out), and bought this because I really liked the eq, and hoped to get the same open feel from the limiter. I am really liking it (just using presets), and figure I'll only get better from here. I'm getting great results quickly for my demo mixes, and again no maven, just a happy customer.
Old 6 days ago
  #47
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Thanks for the detailed responses Dan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
Now it may be that I tend to prefer Distortion to Compression artifacts and tuned the algorithm a bit differently than others would, but this would mean that you probably need to turn the Speed even slower than you would initially consider doing to get the sound you want to hear.
I saw this after playing with it for a much longer period today. This tallies exactly with how I felt about it. Slower speed, nudge up the adaptive speed to taste. I was finding ~10% to be plenty, on the stuff I was checking anyway. Only thing was that this left it feeling flat, so I was leaning on the transient section quite hard. Still sounded pretty good. Getting a feel for it though.

One (another) thing: stereo image. It does.... something to the image. Could just be 'excitation' of stuff though, the distortion artefacts. I'm guessing that with there being no linking knob (unless I missed it), it's L=R?

Sorry for all the bollox, I just really like the approach you've taken and want to understand better.
Old 6 days ago
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
Thanks for the detailed responses Dan!



I saw this after playing with it for a much longer period today. This tallies exactly with how I felt about it. Slower speed, nudge up the adaptive speed to taste. I was finding ~10% to be plenty, on the stuff I was checking anyway. Only thing was that this left it feeling flat, so I was leaning on the transient section quite hard. Still sounded pretty good. Getting a feel for it though.

One (another) thing: stereo image. It does.... something to the image. Could just be 'excitation' of stuff though, the distortion artefacts. I'm guessing that with there being no linking knob (unless I missed it), it's L=R?

Sorry for all the bollox, I just really like the approach you've taken and want to understand better.
The limiter is totally L=R throughout. Maybe by bringing out the transients it's perceived as being wider?
Old 6 days ago
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonlinear View Post
I tried the Elevate demo in Wavelab 9 Pro (win10/64) and something's wrong - the levels I see on the WL output do not match the levels shown in the Elevate meters. In fact, it actually seems like the audio is bypassing the limiter. Elevate shows -.10dB peaks, for example and WL meters are showing +3.45dB. I have no gain anywhere else in the system.

Anyone else come across this? What's wrong?
I've had a couple requests for inter sample peak detection, and am working on implementing that now. It's hard to know without looking at your setup, but it's *possible* that's what causing it? (I'd be a little surprised that you'd see that kind of discrepancy.

Dan
Old 5 days ago
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
The limiter is totally L=R throughout. Maybe by bringing out the transients it's perceived as being wider?
Felt more in the sustain to me, but I'll do some more digging.

I'm sure you hate people like me, coming in and picking apart all your hard work, haha. Sorry about that...
Old 5 days ago
  #51
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I tried it over the last two days together with the EQ and I have to say that it is certainly a different approach than anything I´ve tried before. My only concern at the moment is, that it actually chnages the sound a lot. it´s not subtle at all even with just gentle gain reduction. for many situations this is not what I am looking for in a limiter. but there are certainly those cases where this tool will be just the weapon to chose! I will have to dig deeper for sure. the EQ has also something special going on. I would also say it´s not as good for every task as the typical swiss army knive modern digital EQ. thanks for these new tools!
Old 5 days ago
  #52
Gear Maniac
Tested this in Wavelab v9 Mac and get no metering. No meters are working except for the input out outputs. VST2 and 3. Seems to work fine in Reaper. Pretty sure its passing audio as intended.
Old 5 days ago
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
Felt more in the sustain to me, but I'll do some more digging.

I'm sure you hate people like me, coming in and picking apart all your hard work, haha. Sorry about that...
No hate at all, people should be critical of their tools. I am pretty confident that Elevate's not affecting the stereo image at all, this is not to say that there isn't a perceptual change. It could be as simple as a particular mix has the kick and snare super loud, and panned dead center. If the limiter is squashing them a bit this would widen out a mix (I've heard this before with other limiters, but no reason it couldn't happen with the right Elevate settings).
Old 5 days ago
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermat View Post
I tried it over the last two days together with the EQ and I have to say that it is certainly a different approach than anything I´ve tried before. My only concern at the moment is, that it actually chnages the sound a lot. it´s not subtle at all even with just gentle gain reduction. for many situations this is not what I am looking for in a limiter. but there are certainly those cases where this tool will be just the weapon to chose! I will have to dig deeper for sure. the EQ has also something special going on. I would also say it´s not as good for every task as the typical swiss army knive modern digital EQ. thanks for these new tools!
Depending on the program material, the transient emphasis can be doing too much at the default settings. It might be worth just turning this off and seeing what happens.
Old 5 days ago
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomaster View Post
Tested this in Wavelab v9 Mac and get no metering. No meters are working except for the input out outputs. VST2 and 3. Seems to work fine in Reaper. Pretty sure its passing audio as intended.
It's likely that your machine is one of the few where the OpenGL renderer doesn't like the driver it's seeing. If you're running a Hackintosh you might be able to update your graphics driver. If you're running a 13" Macbook it's probably bailing because those don't have dedicated GPUs. If you want to PM me we can diagnose it a bit more.

Dan

Edit: Sorry didn't notice that you said it's working fine in Reaper. Do you mind PMing me so I can help diagnose this a bit? It might be something I can address.
Old 5 days ago
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
It's likely that your machine is one of the few where the OpenGL renderer doesn't like the driver it's seeing. If you're running a Hackintosh you might be able to update your graphics driver. If you're running a 13" Macbook it's probably bailing because those don't have dedicated GPUs. If you want to PM me we can diagnose it a bit more.

Dan

Edit: Sorry didn't notice that you said it's working fine in Reaper. Do you mind PMing me so I can help diagnose this a bit? It might be something I can address.
Yeah, its working in Reaper, Studio One, Pro Tools.... just not in Wavelab. But then thats hardly surprising as Wavelab is awful in terms of compatibility with plugins.
Old 5 days ago
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGillespie View Post
Depending on the program material, the transient emphasis can be doing too much at the default settings. It might be worth just turning this off and seeing what happens.
that´s exactly what I was just trying, and it makes the device def. cleaner but it´s still changing the sound a bit more than other limiters which is not always a bad thing! it´s def. a worthy purchase for me!
Old 5 days ago
  #58
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Originally Posted by Asher Bay View Post
Wouldn't say winning but different enough to maybe be a preference. Ozone 8 is a bit more clear transparent warm and open and reaches out in space which is the best way I can describe the overall sound of the Ozone 8. Elevate is bright punchy and forward. Really hard to pick one for every duty although Ozone is definitely more balanced across the spectrum. Ozone is however latency/resource monster when adding in the Transient Emphasis so Im not sure I would ever be able to realistically use it with anything else engaged in the chain. IRC 3 is the sweet spot for me.
Really appreciating the input of all the dedicated ME's here! (of whose august body I am not!). Extremely helpful! Thank you, everyone.

I am leaning towards picking this up. Currently I have O7 Maximizer last in my mastering chain, utilizing IRC IV (modern timbre) and the Dither functions, but Elevate definitely is bringing a nice forward openness to things (conservative settings, a bit of tapering off the higher frequency eq's as needed).

Asher Bay, curious as to what puts IRC 3 in the sweet spot for you over 4? (and which of the sub-timbres are you using?) Do you work mostly with particular genres that you find benefit more from 3?
Old 5 days ago
  #59
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Said bollocks to it and bought this and O8 today.

Between Limitless / O8 / Elevate I have a lot of options.

Elevate is very aggressive, no two ways about it. It's kind of "unstable" in that it's quite hard to get the balance between distorted and pumping (as per the above conversation). Going to put time into it though, I have a feeling it' worth learning the ins and outs of...
Old 5 days ago
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4fmb View Post
Really appreciating the input of all the dedicated ME's here! (of whose august body I am not!). Extremely helpful! Thank you, everyone.

I am leaning towards picking this up. Currently I have O7 Maximizer last in my mastering chain, utilizing IRC IV (modern timbre) and the Dither functions, but Elevate definitely is bringing a nice forward openness to things (conservative settings, a bit of tapering off the higher frequency eq's as needed).

Asher Bay, curious as to what puts IRC 3 in the sweet spot for you over 4? (and which of the sub-timbres are you using?) Do you work mostly with particular genres that you find benefit more from 3?
O7 IRC 4 sounds closer to Elevate than O8 does. Ozone 8's IRC4 is more natural and laid back. Actually Ozone 8's IRC3 is also more laid back than 7s is. So if you like the forwardness of Elevate it seems like its own thing.
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