The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Discrete Solid State Mastering Gear
Old 1 week ago
  #31
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
The SPL stuff sounds indeed interesting, but buying a PQ only for its amps...? Im not that sure...
Do it ! you'll get 80 of them

Speaking of wich, I sometimes use the Iron Compressor this way actually, ONLY using the output opamps. By lowering the input stage around -10/12db, you basically almost "bypass" the sound of the transformers/tubes stage, and this way only use the "color" of their supra opamps

Last edited by the unik; 1 week ago at 05:34 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #32
TRW
Lives for gear
 
TRW's Avatar
The vertigo vsc & vse comp/eq have cinemag/jensen input transformers and IC output drivers...

2nd vote for Crane Song/Dave Hill, GML & Elysia, things from Forssell are transformerless class-a, I think some Avalon (some use Lundahl TXs) & millennia media too (jfet opamps) too.

The SPL Passeq is transformer i/o too... lundahl.

Don't think there's that many more.

-T
Old 1 week ago
  #33
Lives for gear
 
bcgood's Avatar
 

Verified Member
This has absolutely zero ICs in the signal path!

Old 1 week ago
  #34
Lives for gear
 
dietrich10's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by the unik View Post
Do it ! you'll get 80 of them

Speaking of wich, I sometimes use the Iron Compressor this way actually, ONLY using the output opamps. By lowering the input stage around -10/12db, you basically almost "bypass" the sound of the transformers/tubes stage, and this way only use the "color" of their supra opamps
I would still love a 3 band stereo ganged PQ with less options and the same sound
Old 1 week ago
  #35
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
This has absolutely zero ICs in the signal path!

Old 1 week ago
  #36
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dietrich10 View Post
I would still love a 3 band stereo ganged PQ with less options and the same sound
Well the first one (silver face mastering version) can do this when you link the channels, as all the pots are motorized

But kind of funny you speak about this Dietrich as it is almost what I did this month. (The point was to see if I could do with 4 bands only )
Attached Thumbnails
Discrete Solid State Mastering Gear-dsc_1842.jpg-ok.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #37
Lives for gear
 
dietrich10's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by the unik View Post
Well the first one (silver face mastering version)
But kind of funny you speak about this Dietrich as it is almost what I did this month. (The point was to see if I could do with 4 bands only )
Between the Sontec and PQ I usually use just 3 on the PQ. saves my eyes
Old 1 week ago
  #38
Lives for gear
 
JP__'s Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Verified Member
From the Manley manual, quite interesting regarding the topic I think (hope its ok to post this here):
"Most balanced line drivers are one of a few variations of crosscoupled mixed feedback circuits. You know, the ones where you can plug in balanced, or unbalanced pin 2 or pin 3 grounded gear and are supposed to allow fool-proof transformer-like interfacing. Two problems - most use positive feedback at just under oscillation levels which may mis-behave with reactive loads (like long cables). The second problem is that this type of output stage generally reacts to differences in the input's impedance balance and changes the source impedance balance, which can mess up common mode rejection. In fact, even if the next device may have a great common mode rejection ratio spec like 80 dB across most of the audio spectrum, the biggest requirement is that the source impedance also be balanced or equal on both legs. For example, if the source impedance of one leg is 100 ohms and the other is 105 ohms (5% resistors) the common mode rejection could end up being 30 dB. But cross-coupled outputs can amplify an impedance imbalance and make a bad thing worse. The Mini takes a different approach, which uses that I/O switch on the back panel. Output impedance remains constant and near ideally balanced and about 30 ohms in all situations. As balanced outputs, they will reach about +30 dBm, and in fact will drive 50 ohms or headphones all day long. The I/O switch and line driver circuit came about from a little email challenge from George Massenburg, while discussing the issues and problems of typical cross-coupled output circuits, the desirability of an ideal transformer-like output, but avoiding the transformers. We came up with a number of alternatives and this one used in the Mini Massive was one of the best. The only downside was that it does require the switch, which makes it less than brainless and automatic. But the switch allows yet another benefit, which is the possibilty for true consumer or semi-pro "-10 dBu" interfacing, and this becomes the third position on the toggle. Yet another possible benefit is that the switch may provide the means for a user to reduce headroom and use premature clipping as an effect."
Old 1 week ago
  #39
Lives for gear
 
JP__'s Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by dietrich10 View Post
I would still love a 3 band stereo ganged PQ with less options and the same sound
Should be with usefull with every EQ out there as I normally do not use more than 3 bands with any EQ. Im more into mixing flavours. But a full equiped monster EQ just looks so much more impressive in the rack..
Old 1 week ago
  #40
Lives for gear
 
macc's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
I think especially with your passive devices there might exists somewhat similar problems when putting them into a chain of devices (in my experience some transformer based gear is easier to handle than others). What would be your recommendation regarding "buffer stages" between those here?
What Unik said. As a daily user of Jakob's passive boxes, as long as you feed them with something with a low output impedance, it's not a problem at all. All about setting up the chain right, and not a problem at all in daily work.

Anyway, I mainly came on here to post this;

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear...u-helsing.html

Comes with output transformers supplied. Maybe you could arrange a discrete output stage..?
Old 4 days ago
  #41
Lives for gear
 
JP__'s Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
What Unik said. As a daily user of Jakob's passive boxes, as long as you feed them with something with a low output impedance, it's not a problem at all. All about setting up the chain right, and not a problem at all in daily work.
Yes, its indeed low impedance output stage vs low impedance output stage. I just have to finally find one that I really like, may it be discrete or IC based....
This issue is something that holds me back buying additional transformer based gear atm. Sometimes transformers back to back works flawlessly, sometimes its a pain in my experience.
Unfortunately theres something in the tone of (a lot of) IC based amps I do not really dig in my chain.
Old 4 days ago
  #42
Gear Addict
 
nOiz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by the unik View Post
O yeah

-Spl Passeq
-Airfield Audio Liminator II
-Shadowhills Mastering compressor
My Airfield Audio Liminator M2 got Jensen and Sowter transformers inside...
Old 4 days ago
  #43
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nOiz View Post
My Airfield Audio Liminator M2 got Jensen and Sowter transformers inside...
Yes of course, and switchable indeed, but as JP said "ok switchable is nice" I thought it could count, as the Shadowhills MC etc...but he's looking for tubeless and transformerless as it seems.
Old 4 days ago
  #44
Lives for gear
 
macc's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Yes, its indeed low impedance output stage vs low impedance output stage. I just have to finally find one that I really like, may it be discrete or IC based....
This issue is something that holds me back buying additional transformer based gear atm. Sometimes transformers back to back works flawlessly, sometimes its a pain in my experience.
Unfortunately theres something in the tone of (a lot of) IC based amps I do not really dig in my chain.
Apparently (I found out today) the Knif Soma into the Gyraf G21 gives you a net gain increase. There's one for you to consider
Old 4 days ago
  #45
Lives for gear
 
the unik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
Apparently (I found out today) the Knif Soma into the Gyraf G21 gives you a net gain increase. There's one for you to consider
Yes again a Impedance issue I believe. And the fact that the G21 is a totally, brillant btw , and Passive transformer based design. Might have something to do with the output traffos on the Soma + the input loss the G21 is trying to make up with, as it's all passive circuitry (no buffer or anything)...Maybe Jakob can give some usefull info here ?

Edit : if I had the G21, I'd personnaly try it first in the chain. Seems more logical for me in a way...
Old 3 days ago
  #46
Gear Addict
 
nOiz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by the unik View Post
Yes of course, and switchable indeed, but as JP said "ok switchable is nice" I thought it could count, as the Shadowhills MC etc...but he's looking for tubeless and transformerless as it seems.
For those who are interested, on the Liminator II, you can switch between Jensen and Sowter input transformers. You can not bypass them. You either use Jensen or Sowter. The "Bypass" is a true relay bypass for comparison between unprocessed and compressed signals.
Old 3 days ago
  #47
Lives for gear
 
macc's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by the unik View Post
Yes again a Impedance issue I believe. And the fact that the G21 is a totally, brillant btw , and Passive transformer based design. Might have something to do with the output traffos on the Soma + the input loss the G21 is trying to make up with, as it's all passive circuitry (no buffer or anything)...Maybe Jakob can give some usefull info here ?
It's all hocus pocus and witchcraft if you ask me man

Quote:
Edit : if I had the G21, I'd personnaly try it first in the chain. Seems more logical for me in a way...
I ran it that way quite often for a long time, as a 'pre-conditioner'. But it just excels at the end, right before the AD. So it stays there now. I think Emil at ET (chief Gyraf test pilot) has found the same.

Even if I do some post-analogue tweaking, it does wonderful things - just soaks up any remaining problematic bits in certain areas. It's way more a tone-shaping/eq box than a "clipper" IMO
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+  Submit Thread to Reddit Reddit 
 
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump