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Monitors, which don't tire ears
Old 21st April 2017
  #1
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Monitors, which don't tire ears

Hi

I wanted to know if there are some monitors which do not tire the ears.
E.g made with some new technique like manger audio or something without neodymium and ferrites?

Thank you.
Old 21st April 2017
  #2
DAH
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your room acoustics and listening levels are IMO the biggest factors here.
Old 21st April 2017
  #3
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Even really great monitors will tire your ears if you play them at high levels for extended periods. What do you normally listen to on your monitors?
Old 21st April 2017
  #4
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Usually fatigue from monitors can be traced down to distortion (in my opinion). Also it seems like the different distortion "patterns" of various designs are very subjective. We all have quite different hearing/ears so this is a completely subjective question to begin with.

Only way to find suitable monitors for yourself is to get a bunch into the studio and demo them all. It's a tedious and extremely frustrating process (nothing worse than changing your monitoring chain and having to re-learn everything).
Old 21st April 2017
  #5
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You're ​actually looking for ears that don't get tired from monitors Try listening quieter and you can get more mileage out of your sessions, but every transducer will fatigue your ears to some degree. Most monitors "sound better" loud, but mix sessions are more productive at milder levels.
Old 21st April 2017
  #6
If you work on a room with the right dimensions, Acoustc and the right level
Your ears don't suppose to get fatigue,
As well the Amp makes a difference.
I used Tyler DX2 most of the time with a Class B amp but when i use a class D amp makes it more detail but at some point after 8 Hrs fatigue my ears an the side of the speaker and room has some to do as well.
Old 21st April 2017
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericpalonen View Post
You're ​actually looking for ears that don't get tired from monitors Try listening quieter and you can get more mileage out of your sessions, but every transducer will fatigue your ears to some degree. Most monitors sound better loud, but mix sessions are more productive at milder levels.
I was with you up until, "most sound better loud." That's true yet really a design choice so they can be all things to all people, namely for tracking AND mixing both.

There is a sweet spot based on the dynamics of the driver. The better the design the larger the sweet spot (on level)

Manu monitors are made to BE GOOD LOUD, so they need to BE UP LOUD to wake up. If you want a crazy loud thing with no dynamics, there are many.

A monitor that has speed and punch at lower levels is what you want for most real listening, and they will still get to 95 or 100 dbA at 1-2M.

Last edited by lucey; 21st April 2017 at 11:55 PM..
Old 21st April 2017
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
I was with you up until, most sound better loud. That's a design choice so they can be all things to all people, namely for tracking AND mixing both.

There is a sweet spot based on the dynamics of the driver. The better the design the larger the sweet spot (on level)

Manu monitors are made to BE GOOD LOUD, so they need to BE UP LOUD to wake up. If you want a crazy loud thing with no dynamics, there are many.

A monitor that has speed and punch at lower levels is what you want for most real listening, and they will still get to 95 or 100 dbA at 1-2M.
You're absolutely correct—poor choice of words on my behalf. What I should have said was "most monitors are flattering to your ears when loud".
Old 22nd April 2017
  #9
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My Tylers (Decade D1's) are probably the least fatiguing speakers I've ever used in here.

That said - Everyone's ears start to argue after a certain amount of abuse...
Old 22nd April 2017
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
Usually fatigue from monitors can be traced down to distortion (in my opinion). Also it seems like the different distortion "patterns" of various designs are very subjective. We all have quite different hearing/ears so this is a completely subjective question to begin with.

Only way to find suitable monitors for yourself is to get a bunch into the studio and demo them all. It's a tedious and extremely frustrating process (nothing worse than changing your monitoring chain and having to re-learn everything).
This.

Also, I feel like the topic of distortion in monitors is rarely discussed while it's probably one of the most important aspect of speakers.

It would be nice if manufacturers had some basic distortion measurements on their monitors but that would probably be a scary number for most of them.
Old 22nd April 2017
  #11
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Bad/wrong room acoustics is another big factor. In my room and for my ears even too much diffusion makes me feeling unrelaxed, especially regarding reflections from the back.

Another though is that the tired ears are more due to the specific music and your individual processing and it could maybe the wrong way to search for a speaker that makes everything sounds great or hide certain issues with the mix/master.
On my speakers a lot of overloud pop music with its often typical very flat representation (regarding depth of field/3D) is quite annoying to listen too which makes the quality of the used tools quite obviously (bad loudness processing, overcompression, bad EQs, digital vs analog...).
So, as a provocation post: do you need a speaker that forces you to do better, but hard work or do you look for the easy way with a speaker that takes all kind of crap and makes it joyfull to listen too even for many hours...
Is less ear fatigue really the aim on all circumstances when looking for speakers? For me its more about the ability to show differences; bad processed music can be very annoying, but good recorded stuff will ake you enjoy music for even very long hours. Another huge factor whenit comes down to speakers is the question if you have a lot of attended sessions; it could very questionable if a very honest speaker is the right way to choose to present music to your clients which can get easily confused from too much honest details. And confusion isreally the last thing you want when sitting in a mastering room...

Last edited by JP__; 22nd April 2017 at 09:37 AM..
Old 22nd April 2017
  #12
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Regarding distortion specs: yes, it sounds quite logical that a speaker with lower specs is of course better, but distortion isnt just distortion. Its character plays a much bigger role than its pure quantities. Even the extreme high distortion even from a high class speaker (in comparisson to lets say a DAC) is not really capable to fully mask the much lower once of that DAC. Starting from the quite bad specs from any speaker its just a wonder why its still possible to show a those tiny details a well trained ear is capable to dedect...

The better/transparent a speaker is the more difference its able to show. But tight differences could easily stress the ear too which results in ear fatigue too. So no, theres no easy way to choose a speaker...
Old 22nd April 2017
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Old 23rd April 2017
  #14
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The Dim switch is probably the most used function in the studio for me, second only to Do Not Disturb on my phone during attended sessions (unless expecting a call).

Often it's the more flattering, "hi-fi" sounding speakers that can become the most tiring after a while – not necessarily because you hear it, but because you don't, and tend to realise the damage or the need for an ear-break only later.

Last edited by Adam Dempsey; 23rd April 2017 at 07:07 AM..
Old 25th April 2017
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My Alon IVs sound good even after a 13 hour marathon mastering session. I try and keep the volume about 75 dBSPL even when clients want it a lot louder. Loud monitors, IMHO, are the biggest reason for ear fatigue.

FWIW
Old 25th April 2017
  #16
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PSI Audio. Any speaker starting from the A17-M onwards.
Old 25th April 2017
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
PSI Audio. Any speaker starting from the A17-M onwards.
Can't argue with that. I've had the PSI A-215M for awhile now and never have a fatigue issue.

As mentioned, I think a big part of it though is keeping a reasonable listening level, and the room treatment. If you have a very quiet room that isn't harsh sounding, you don't need to listen loud all day.

Another bonus is that I don't use them as near-fields. They are a reasonable distance away from my ears.
Old 25th April 2017
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IMO, great monitors aren't so much fatiguing as they are revealing of fatiguing audio. I can listen at a pretty healthy level for longs periods of time if the audio is clean. But with distorted, clipped, sibilant sources I'm toast after a few hours.
Old 27th April 2017
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Reierson View Post
IMO, great monitors aren't so much fatiguing as they are revealing of fatiguing audio. I can listen at a pretty healthy level for longs periods of time if the audio is clean. But with distorted, clipped, sibilant sources I'm toast after a few hours.
This, 100%
Old 28th April 2017
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
Greg Calbi within 30 seconds of this attended session.

https://youtu.be/Lm1qdxxksTY
well.... there is a moment when the lads express their opinions about different sounding cables....
couldn;t watch it any further really..

btw - I agree with the 2 main points :
1. room acoustics vs setup vs monitoring system (speaker/amp/dac) has great impact
2. music genre/production - it's hard to tire your ears with some beautiful folk recordings, without drums, for example
Old 11th May 2017
  #21
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ATC speakers are very non fatiguing.

soft dome mids and highs.

I cant stand speakers with metal tweeters
Old 12th May 2017
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JVFM View Post
<snip>... with a Class B amp but when i use a class D amp makes it more detail but at some point after 8 Hrs fatigue my ears an the side of the speaker and room has some to do as well.
Who intentionally makes a pure Class B amp? Class B only exists for efficient use of power not quality.

Updated: Just looked at your website. The GFA-555 is a Class A amplifier design (if that's what you are referring to) and not Class B.

Last edited by pentagon; 12th May 2017 at 06:14 AM..
Old 12th May 2017
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbeat View Post
Hi

I wanted to know if there are some monitors which do not tire the ears.
E.g made with some new technique like manger audio or something without neodymium and ferrites?

Thank you.

I use linear, Class A, push pull tube amps with zero feedback, capacitors that are not harsh, and the best possible tubes that are clear and punchy yet not harsh. The speakers are dynamic and natural (no overly analytical) and not harsh. (no metal tweeters for sure, not neduymium, and no Class D, no AB, as those tire me out faster than A). DA converter that is class A and top quality ear tested design. Avocet for analog monitoring.
Old 12th May 2017
  #24
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class B

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Who intentionally makes a pure Class B amp? Class B only exists for efficient use of power not quality.

Updated: Just looked at your website. The GFA-555 is a Class A amplifier design (if that's what you are referring to) and not Class B.
the subject has been beat to death, do the research.
Read D. Self, B. Oliver, and R. Slone.
nearly ALL conventional solid state amplifiers are class B.
Lets say it together: CLASS B.

that Adcom 555 thing is likewise class B:
200 watts into 8 ohms should give one a clue.
Old 12th May 2017
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Who intentionally makes a pure Class B amp? Class B only exists for efficient use of power not quality.

Updated: Just looked at your website. The GFA-555 is a Class A amplifier design (if that's what you are referring to) and not Class B.
You right ad the A in front for AB class.
Old 12th May 2017
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cathode View Post
nearly ALL conventional solid state amplifiers are class B.
Lets say it together: CLASS B.

that Adcom 555 thing is likewise class B:
200 watts into 8 ohms should give one a clue.
There are no class-B amps, they are all AB. Class-A at low levels, migrating more and more to class-B as the levels rise.

Newest class-D amps (Hypex nCore) beat everything else in all aspects, even if for some it is hard to believe.
Old 12th May 2017
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post
Newest class-D amps (Hypex nCore) beat everything else in all aspects, even if for some it is hard to believe.
"All" aspects? Seems over the top. You must not be including the aspects I listen for.
Old 12th May 2017
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
"All" aspects? Seems over the top. You must not be including the aspects I listen for.
The power amp sound or the desert of Tartars.

A monitor, Neumann KH420 ?
Old 13th May 2017
  #29
My K&H 0300D were always easy for hours and hours of general tracking and editing etc.
Old 14th May 2017
  #30
DAH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
My K&H 0300D were always easy for hours and hours of general tracking and editing etc.
I heard them once and the limiter LED was blinking often at normal levels on Chronic 2001.
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