The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Scott Hull thread! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 6th January 2017
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Another question of interest to me and hopefully others, would be for you to describe how you got involved in audio and music, what led to your eventual rise to work with Bob at Masterdisk, and then go out on your own.

What & how did it happen, what gave you the x-factor to exceed and succeed?

Thanks, JT
Old 6th January 2017
  #32
Lives for gear
 
Greg Reierson's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Square Cad: The Mastering Podcast

Might save Scott a lot of typing.
Old 6th January 2017
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Reierson View Post
Square Cad: The Mastering Podcast

Might save Scott a lot of typing.
Thanks Greg!

And anything else that Scott might want to add ~beyond~ the podcast would be welcome.

JT
Old 6th January 2017
  #34
Lives for gear
 
Apostolos Siopis's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post

Even though I have the latest and greatest plug ins for EQ and limiting (as well as great analog of course), I still find my Weiss DS1MkIII and my Weiss EQ1 MkII get used the most everyday. I like turning knobs and hearing the results in real time. I still find boxes way quicker than software. What are your thoughts when it comes to this?
I was about to ask the same question myself
Old 6th January 2017
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Scott, on the "Two Against Nature" record.

I just A/B listened to the CD vs the DVD-A 2.0

I can see why Roger referred to it as "Grammy Winner" even before the fact.

The audio on the DVD-A 2.0 is 24/96 & sounds fabulous even through the Pioneer DVD-A DAC.

However the 16/44.1k audio on the CD is also fantastic, the sound is identical other than the SRC.

I see that the great bass work was done by Walter Becker, and also Tom Barney.

Best, JT

Last edited by Jerry Tubb; 6th January 2017 at 10:26 PM.. Reason: clarification :~ )>
Old 6th January 2017
  #36
DAH
Lives for gear
 
DAH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHull View Post
That's not what we learned in the 90's

David Smith of Sony and Many others document that the was a jitter component that could be traced back to the creating of the pits.. in fact they isolated the jitter component and found that it was being Modulated by the audio it'self !!!! OMG - top of head explodes.. !!


lead to JVC making the K2- process and sony demanding single speed glass masters.

later, technology changed and new glass master makers were configured to perform better at the higher transfer rates. This problem isn't talked about much now.. since - well - few are listening to cd very closely.
I have found this document and it states that two of the seasoned listeners did not confirm the difference in blind tests: http://resources.prismsound.com/tm/cdinvest.pdf. I think for just WAV playback this issue is non-existent?
Old 6th January 2017
  #37
Lives for gear
 
Adam Dempsey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHull View Post
David Smith of Sony and Many others document that the was a jitter component that could be traced back to the creating of the pits.. in fact they isolated the jitter component and found that it was being Modulated by the audio it'self !!!! OMG - top of head explodes.. !!


lead to JVC making the K2- process and sony demanding single speed glass masters.

later, technology changed and new glass master makers were configured to perform better at the higher transfer rates. This problem isn't talked about much now.. since - well - few are listening to cd very closely.
Hi Scott, thanks for the insights. I recall reading about this elsewhere, based on Roger's piece, and it being traced to the LBR and basically boiling down to use of computer-grade, rather than audio-grade, crystal clocking. I think this was later implemented for glass mastering by Doug Carson & Associates? In any case, a significant step forward for the industry on the learning curve of what matters in digital audio. (For one thing I don't miss 1630s at all, even with the custom modified filters we used).

Do you find yourself trying different converters periodically, or trialing them on a per-project basis, or sticking with what's tried & tested?

Any stories come to mind of happy accidents in sessions in which a converter or particular process chain has proven unexpectedly effective/beneficial, whether via simplifying the chain or as an addition?

Last edited by Adam Dempsey; 7th January 2017 at 10:09 PM.. Reason: clarity
Old 7th January 2017
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Dempsey View Post
Hi Scott, thanks for the insights. I recall reading about this elsewhere, based on Roger's piece, and it being traced to the LBR and it being, basically, due to computer-grade, rather than audio-grade, crystal clocking, later implemented by DCA? In any case, a significant step forward for the industry on the learning curve of what matters in digital audio. (For one thing I don't miss 1630s at all, even with the custom modified filters we used).

Do you find yourself trying different converters periodically, or trialing them on a per-project basis, or sticking with what's tried & tested?

Any stories come to mind of happy accidents in sessions in which a converter or particular process chain has proven unexpectedly effective/beneficial, whether via simplifying the chain or as an addition?
Btw I really enjoyed reading Roger's article again, almost 17 years later. Roger would hang out with a few of us engineers here in Austin back in the day, he always had the best bleeding edge stories!

Best, JT
Old 8th January 2017
  #39
Gear Nut
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood View Post
Always been a fan of your work, Scott, nice to see you here.
Hi Brad
Thanks. !

it was Jerry's Idea LOL
Old 8th January 2017
  #40
Gear Nut
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb View Post
Scott, on the "Two Against Nature" record.

I just A/B listened to the CD vs the DVD-A 2.0

I can see why Roger referred to it as "Grammy Winner" even before the fact.

The audio on the DVD-A 2.0 is 24/96 & sounds fabulous even through the Pioneer DVD-A DAC.

However the 16/44.1k audio on the CD is also fantastic, the sound is identical other than the SRC.

I see that the great bass work was done by Walter Becker, and also Tom Barney.

Best, JT
Too 100% honest - I can only take credit for Not Messing it up
It soundsed great . Just had to be handled very carefully. SRC wasn't easy to make it match the 96.. we had time and budget to try may things. Prisim AD2, DB 300s , Sonic , and a Harmonia Mundi downsampler.. The DB sounded like the master.
Old 8th January 2017
  #41
Gear Nut
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Dempsey View Post

Do you find yourself trying different converters periodically, or trialing them on a per-project basis, or sticking with what's tried & tested?

Any stories come to mind of happy accidents in sessions in which a converter or particular process chain has proven unexpectedly effective/beneficial, whether via simplifying the chain or as an addition?
not often.. Im pretty happy with the sound of my rig and when i change converters ( either DA or AD ) i feel like i need to make other compensations.

I have only found a few recordings that didn't sounds great with my Prism DA2 and Prism AD2. I have others when i need to try something different.. But when the analog chain isn't working - the next thing i try is digital hardware eq.
Namely.. Weiss, Zsys, TC-6000 in some combination .
Old 8th January 2017
  #42
Gear Nut
 

Verified Member
In case it wasn't obvious.

You can ask me anything....

thx
scott
Old 8th January 2017
  #43
Gear Maniac
I would just like to say I am in complete awe of the work you have done on the Tzadik releases. Those records are my gold standard to use as reference and sound timeless. Hard to think of just one specific question, but does anything stand out about mastering Zorn releases compared to other projects? I imagine you guys are so dialed in at this point it's very smooth. Is Kazunori Sugiyama still involved and around during those mastering sessions?

Thanks a bunch for what you do, it's a huge inspiration.
Old 8th January 2017
  #44
Gear Nut
 

Verified Member
Fun story-

The Two Against Nature record was finished. I had made 1630 masters for the world - With a lot of help from Joe Lambert who was working with me at the time.
Sent the master to the lable and to the pressing plants... and Donald and Walter booked an editing session with me to attempt some single edits on the song "Cousin Dupree". it was difficult to edit because of the long solos and rather jazzy song crafting. They didn't repeat anything.. so cutting out 16 bars was unusually difficult. but the funny part was during that editing session - while the two of them were listing to my edit.. Donald turns to Walter and says " Was there a reason why we didn't put background vocals on this song ? " Walter laughed.. " no reason, what are you hearing? .." DF then sang an improvised high harmony in the chorus.. and they both looked at each other .. with a look like " Yeah.. the song could really use something there ??... " So we ended the session, They called the label who stopped the presses - and they called Roger Nichols and the backing Vocals girls and I think the next day they were in the studio cutting vocals.. new "Ohhhs" went in the Verses and All the soulful BVs went in to the chorus.. in Hindsight I had to wonder if THAT wasn't the Grammy / No Grammy moment for that song. .. The original version sounded pretty boring compared to the new final version.

The next day i'm editing the newest version of cousin Dupre into the sequence - and making new masters for the world.. with another overnight copy fest for Joe
Old 8th January 2017
  #45
Lives for gear
 
bcgood's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHull View Post
Fun story-

The Two Against Nature record was finished. I had made 1630 masters for the world - With a lot of help from Joe Lambert who was working with me at the time.
Sent the master to the lable and to the pressing plants... and Donald and Walter booked an editing session with me to attempt some single edits on the song "Cousin Dupree". it was difficult to edit because of the long solos and rather jazzy song crafting. They didn't repeat anything.. so cutting out 16 bars was unusually difficult. but the funny part was during that editing session - while the two of them were listing to my edit.. Donald turns to Walter and says " Was there a reason why we didn't put background vocals on this song ? " Walter laughed.. " no reason, what are you hearing? .." DF then sang an improvised high harmony in the chorus.. and they both looked at each other .. with a look like " Yeah.. the song could really use something there ??... " So we ended the session, They called the label who stopped the presses - and they called Roger Nichols and the backing Vocals girls and I think the next day they were in the studio cutting vocals.. new "Ohhhs" went in the Verses and All the soulful BVs went in to the chorus.. in Hindsight I had to wonder if THAT wasn't the Grammy / No Grammy moment for that song. .. The original version sounded pretty boring compared to the new final version.

The next day i'm editing the newest version of cousin Dupre into the sequence - and making new masters for the world.. with another overnight copy fest for Joe
That is so cool! I ordered the CD on Amazon because of this thread. I'm looking forward to enjoying it.
Old 8th January 2017
  #46
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
That is so cool! I ordered the CD on Amazon because of this thread. I'm looking forward to enjoying it.
This is a great thread, I always considered that record a benchmark. It seems sonically impossible.
Old 9th January 2017
  #47
DAH
Lives for gear
 
DAH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH View Post
I have found this document and it states that two of the seasoned listeners did not confirm the difference in blind tests: http://resources.prismsound.com/tm/cdinvest.pdf. I think for just WAV playback this issue is non-existent?
bump, any feedback?
Old 9th January 2017
  #48
Lives for gear
 
SmoothTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHull View Post
But when the analog chain isn't working - the next thing i try is digital hardware eq. Namely.. Weiss, Zsys, TC-6000 in some combination .
Hi Scott,

I was wondering how often you find that a mix just doesn't seem to like the analogue chain. I find this on roughly 1 or 2 out of 20 mixes. Any thoughts on what it is about a mix that doesn't work in the analogue domain? Have you noticed any similarities between the mixes you prefer to stay digital with or is it just a matter of the occasional 'flavour mismatch?'

Enjoying the thread so far (thanks Jerry).

Dom
Old 9th January 2017
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH View Post
bump, any feedback?
Roger discussed this at length in this article.

http://steelydanreader.com/2000/02/0...test-pressing/

Yes often if two "different" sounding discs are ripped into waves, and the null test applied, the data is identical.

Best, JT
Old 9th January 2017
  #50
Lives for gear
 

Not to hijack the thread, but you CAN'T assess playback jitter effects by ripping files off of CD's any comparing the data via a file compare program. Anyway, the whole "pit jitter" thing got debunked a long time ago when everyone finally realized that the disc was being read into an elastic store.
Old 9th January 2017
  #51
DAH
Lives for gear
 
DAH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb View Post
Roger discussed this at length in this article.

Give Me the Jitters: The Case of the Mysteriously Bad Test Pressing - The Steely Dan Reader

Yes often if two "different" sounding discs are ripped into waves, and the null test applied, the data is identical.

Best, JT
Thank you, JT!
Have read this and some other articles on the topic - it seems to be that the best way to listen to the music is WAV\FLAC file playback.
Old 9th January 2017
  #52
Gear Nut
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH View Post
bump, any feedback?

I didn't put my ears on it.. so my comments are only academic... But once you capture a wav files and then play it back thru an i/o you have changed SOME of the jitter components. Mr Bob Katz can give a better technical explanation as to why.. Buy my understanding is that clock jitter can be reduced.. but that data jitter can not be reduced through improved clocking.. Many different opinions on this subject. Lets make sure we respect each other viewpoints !
Old 9th January 2017
  #53
Gear Nut
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH View Post
Thank you, JT!
Have read this and some other articles on the topic - it seems to be that the best way to listen to the music is WAV\FLAC file playback.
I dont agree..

Read carefully.. THE BEST way ... is to understand what it is that you are hearing and what can be considered a constant.
When listening to 2 CD's played back one after the other in the same player.. you can assume that certain parameters are constant.. While it's harder to compare them directly - you can hear the differences.

When you rip the data into a DAW and compare them - Some of the parameters Might be changed. I agree with the statement that Two Files that NUL in the DAW does NOT mean that the two CD's sound identical. It only means that the data used to create them was identical. And be careful of the "NUL test " also . Dither is random and will not cancel on null - but that is expected. added...( two otherwise identical exports might not completely nul if dither was used when down converting )

This can become a HUGE topic. - and is' not new to this forum.

Last edited by ScottHull; 11th January 2017 at 03:39 AM..
Old 9th January 2017
  #54
Gear Nut
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfrigo View Post
Thanks for taking the time to do this Scott, and thanks Jerry for starting the thread!
Hi Jay ! All the Best ! Thanks
Old 9th January 2017
  #55
Gear Nut
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
How valuable is your Weiss gear still to you?

Even though I have the latest and greatest plug ins for EQ and limiting (as well as great analog of course), I still find my Weiss DS1MkIII and my Weiss EQ1 MkII get used the most everyday. I like turning knobs and hearing the results in real time. I still find boxes way quicker than software. What are your thoughts when it comes to this?

I will also master analog only, digital only and a combo of the two. Once I decide on the correct "path" I rarely switch off of it. At times I will still drop back to see if I can "better" my results but usually I find the first impression is the correct one. Any thoughts regarding this as well?

Lastly, blame Jerry when the questions become too much... it's all his fault. Ha ha
100% agree ..
Hardware gives me instantly confident results.. I can tell in seconds if i like what it's doing. Plugs.. not so instant.. takes longer to find the sweet spot and the bypass function of plugs usually frustrates me... I don't like the apparent Cross fade that the plugs do when you by pass them... It fools my ears into thinking there is less eq than there really is. I often set up two "Tracks" in my Daw one with the plug and one without and I A/B the results at my monitor console Switching the synchronized Aes signals A-B into my monitor dac. This gives me an A-B that sounds more like a Hardware Bypass.

I also find it REALLY hard to use analog path on one song and Digital path on another song in the same album.. I have made it work.. but only when the mixes were THAT different..

I've tried to remain invisible.. But Jerry dragged me out of the shadows. lol

Last edited by ScottHull; 9th January 2017 at 04:28 PM.. Reason: typeo
Old 9th January 2017
  #56
Gear Nut
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Reierson View Post
Square Cad: The Mastering Podcast

Might save Scott a lot of typing.
Was that me ? Wow I don't even sound like myself.. It was time compressed ... and I talk fast as it is.. yes - it's very comprehensive What "he" Said lol
Old 9th January 2017
  #57
Lives for gear
 
JP__'s Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHull View Post
100% agree ..
Hardware gives me instantly confident results.. I can tell in seconds if i like what it's doing. Plugs.. not so instant.. takes longer to find the sweet spot and the bypass function of plugs usually frustrates me... I don't like the apparent Cross fade that the plugs do when you by pass them... It fools my ears into thinking there is less eq than there really is. I often set up two "Tracks" in my Daw one with the plug and one without and I A/B the results at my monitor console Switching the synchronized Aes signals A-B into my monitor dac. This gives me an A-B that sounds more like a Hardware Bypass.
Interesting, I do so myself while mastering, but I never though about why...
Old 9th January 2017
  #58
Lives for gear
 
ed littman's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHull View Post
My process is to quickly roll thru the whole record - sequenced if possible.. and turn knobs in real time ( hardware mastering ) I keep the record playing only backing up if i find something odd.. taking notes in short hand ...

then i take a break - usually lunch.. then i go thru each song one at a time referring to my notes and this time looking for a center.. Looking for things that help connect the songs together.. and making the more delicate 1/2 db adjustments ..

1. I often find i initially over eq a little.. but i don't worry about it -I'm running on instinct. i just keep an eye out for it and check my settings against flat before i print. that's also why i take a break.
2. The first song is often NOT a great song to set up as the standard for the record.
3. I don't touch the volume control - once i set it. Ever !
My volume control is a rotary switch not an volume pot - so i have a precise listening level reference
Great questions & thread Jerry!
Scott great stories. You may not know this but I have learned much from you indirectly from Dave McNair when he worked out of my room a few years back.
I only heard about the quickly rolling through part of your process. Thanks for filling the rest!
Old 9th January 2017
  #59
Lives for gear
 

Interesting comment on "slow" plugins, but I use the Sonic Mastering EQ plugin and it doesn't seem to exhibit any of those tendencies. Ergonomically speaking, it seems to be as "fast" as my Z-sys hardware eq and is more flexible in certain ways.
Old 9th January 2017
  #60
Lives for gear
 
Paul Gold's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHull View Post
100% agree ..
I often set up two "Tracks" in my Daw one with the plug and one without and I A/B the results at my monitor console Switching the synchronized Aes signals A-B into my monitor dac. This gives me an A-B that sounds more like a Hardware Bypass.
This is S.O.P. for me. I use a Prism DA2 for "play" and a Lavry Blue for "bypass". I could use two Lavry Blue DA's but I like the Prism better. I already use two DA2's. One for "play" and one for monitor after the AD capture. Three DA2's would be a bit much. The Lavry Blue also is the preview signal for when I'm cutting.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump