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ozone 7 stand alone dithering redundant? Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 18th December 2016
  #1
Gear Head
 
miguelyogur's Avatar
 

ozone 7 stand alone dithering redundant?

Hello. Could someone help me with this questiom? I use ozone 7 in stand alone mode and when it is time to export there is this option "enable dither" which i am not sure if i should check. I apply the dithering algorithm that I need in the limiter section. I assume that then the "enable dither" option is redundant and not necessary since dither has already been applied. However it may be the case too that this is enabling the dithering applied in the maximizer module to be part of the export process. I don't think that the documentation is clear about that and I could not find this anywhere. What would be the correct way to deal with these two dithering options?

thanks
Old 18th December 2016
  #2
Gear Addict
It doesn't matter if you're staying above 16 bits. It's inaudible noise.
Old 18th December 2016
  #3
Lives for gear
 
mastermat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by inestima View Post
It doesn't matter if you're staying above 16 bits. It's inaudible noise.
I wholeheartedly disagree!!

check this thread out:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-...terdither.html

you can find some interesting info about dithering in it!

as to the original question, I don´t know, but I would asume that if you´ve enabled dither in the maximizer section it should already be applied...everything else would make no sense to me. I guess the enable button is there in case you havn´t used the maximizer section in your chain and still want to dither (what you should do for every file you want to render below 32 bit wordlength).
Old 19th December 2016
  #4
Gear Addict
The AES paper on dither is very informative. It discusses the need for dither when reducing bit depth from 16 to 8, but the jury is out on anything higher. If you think you can hear a difference, go for it. It doesn't really hurt.
Old 19th December 2016
  #5
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Rather than arguing, just try it and listen!
Old 19th December 2016
  #6
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelyogur View Post
Hello. Could someone help me with this questiom? I use ozone 7 in stand alone mode and when it is time to export there is this option "enable dither" which i am not sure if i should check. I apply the dithering algorithm that I need in the limiter section. I assume that then the "enable dither" option is redundant and not necessary since dither has already been applied. However it may be the case too that this is enabling the dithering applied in the maximizer module to be part of the export process. I don't think that the documentation is clear about that and I could not find this anywhere. What would be the correct way to deal with these two dithering options?

thanks
You apply dither any and every time you reduce wordlength. So if something happens between the maximiser and export, this will probably be done at 32bit FP or higher and you will need to dither down to the bit depth you are exporting (24 or 16). Dither is always the last thing in the chain, so if nothing happens after the maximiser, you're good to go with the dither in there.

Edit: I re-read your question and realised I missed the point of it. Sorry, I don't know if the dither at export is seperate to the one in the limiter.

Last edited by SmoothTone; 19th December 2016 at 09:54 AM.. Reason: stupidity
Old 19th December 2016
  #7
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miguelyogur's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermat View Post
as to the original question, I don´t know, but I would asume that if you´ve enabled dither in the maximizer section it should already be applied...everything else would make no sense to me. I guess the enable button is there in case you havn´t used the maximizer section in your chain and still want to dither (what you should do for every file you want to render below 32 bit wordlength).
That is exactly what i think too. But I am not 100% positive and I find this feature a bit misguiding. Thanks for all the answers. It would be nice if someone could settle this without doubt, though. Otherwisee I will have to test it but ut would take time and I was hoping that someone would habe thought about this before me.
Old 20th December 2016
  #8
I remember reading the answer somewhere when i was trying ozone7 and finding this check box a little confusing. The answer is yes, the check box just mirror the maximizer dither bypass. So if you dont tweak the dither section of the maximizer and check the box during export it will turn on dither module with default setup.
Old 20th December 2016
  #9
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miguelyogur's Avatar
 

Thanks. So what about the opposite way? If I do tweak the dither section in the main window and leave it on... then at export time should I check this "enable dither" option? or would this result in something odd, like applying dither twice?
Old 20th December 2016
  #10
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Verified Member
The only thing to EVER not dither is an unmodified clone of a file. Dither is exactly like bias in analog tape. When you leave it off, you get distortion added.
Old 20th December 2016
  #11
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lobsterinn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelyogur View Post
Thanks. So what about the opposite way? If I do tweak the dither section in the main window and leave it on... then at export time should I check this "enable dither" option? or would this result in something odd, like applying dither twice?
I'm guessing the "enable dither" option is your DAW's built-in dither. If you are already applying it with a plugin of your choice, you'd want to leave it off. Ozone's dither is probably better sounding, but it can't hurt to try them both and see what you prefer when checking the bounced files.
Old 20th December 2016
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelyogur View Post
It would be nice if someone could settle this without doubt, though. Otherwisee I will have to test it but ut would take time and I was hoping that someone would habe thought about this before me.
A simple null test will have this settled in 5 minutes.
Old 21st December 2016
  #13
Gear Head
 
miguelyogur's Avatar
 

I am not sure about the null test since the dither noise is random...
Old 21st December 2016
  #14
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelyogur View Post
I am not sure about the null test since the dither noise is random...
Yeah, so you render a file without dither, then one with the dither on in the limiter, then another with the limiter dither off but the export one on and null the latter two with the undithered file (separately). If what you are left with after the null is dither noise, you will know it's working. If you get silence, then it's not.

Last edited by SmoothTone; 21st December 2016 at 09:00 AM.. Reason: clarity
Old 21st December 2016
  #15
If you uncheck dither at export, it bypass the maximizer dither. There is only one dither stage in ozone.
Old 21st December 2016
  #16
Gear Head
 
miguelyogur's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Precision Studio View Post
If you uncheck dither at export, it bypass the maximizer dither. There is only one dither stage in ozone.
So I understand then that if you don't want to tweak the dither options you could uncheck the dither section of the maximizer, check the "enable dithering" at export and still get the files dithered, with all the details handled automatically by Ozone?

And also... If I check the maximizer dither and do tweak the parameters but i don't check the "enable dither" option during export, then all these tweaks will be lost and the files rendered undithered?
Old 21st December 2016
  #17
No! The check box only mirrors the dither module bypass. If you uncheck and recheck the box at export it will use the dither setup as it is in the maximizer plugin
Old 23rd December 2016
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
The only thing to EVER not dither is an unmodified clone of a file. Dither is exactly like bias in analog tape. When you leave it off, you get distortion added.
Yes. The question isn't if but how/what.

For intermediate stages flat tpd is a "safe" option, to lock in what you're hearing. In fact, pretty safe default choice.

For delivery if you have a couple general options LISTEN! Use what sounds best on the music. Most times for me the flavors built into my limiter (Xenon now, L2 hardware before that, TC and Ozone 1-6 alternative along the way) work, but when they don't having options is nice.
Old 28th February 2018
  #19
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Precision Studio View Post
No! The check box only mirrors the dither module bypass. If you uncheck and recheck the box at export it will use the dither setup as it is in the maximizer plugin
This is correct. I would add that no matter if you have the master Dither power button enabled or BYPASSED, you need to check the dither box in export dialog to apply dither.

I exported an empty audio file (all bits 0) 32bit file from PT. Then reimported it, no dither noise (obviously). Next,I opened that file in the Ozone 7 Standalone app and engaged master dither (amount strong - Noise shaping MAX) and exported the file with engaged master dither BUT the export dialog dither UNCHECKED - Result no dither noise applied.

Then I exported the same file with Master dither engaged and export dialog dither CHECKED - Result dither noise applied
Then I exported the same file with Master dither BYPASSED and export dialog dither CHECKED - Result dither noise applied (the same amount of dither noise)

I did the same thing agin with lesser dither amount. (Medium and High) When I exported with Master section BYPASSED and export dialog CHECKED, I got the same amount of dither as my settings in the Master section.
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