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Is mastering needed today? What's the point on this? Dynamics Plugins
Old 21st December 2016
  #151
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And then still, it would be meaningless, as the first and only pass that I send back had a clear list of shortcomings i called out in my feedback.(4k harsness issues, odd timed overcompression against the beat, considerable sucking and puffing from overlimiting, ALL in the track sent to me) clear request to fix those issues as I don't want someones money If I don't feel I can add value, or deliver a mediocre end result that can be so much better with some focussed rework of the mix.
It was not something I would consider a final master, more a lighthouse direction / magnifying glass, with a list of comments and stuff that needed fixing, to get the discussion going.
But the discussion never happened hence a final master was never made. TS did not come back to me, not even the courtesy of saying "thnx, but no thnx" of "I go back to do more work and I might get back to you" or a "thnx for the valueable input, I now know how to move forward" Nothing, nada, niente....

You get these kind of people every once and a while, hit and run. Looking for a benchmark or free mix advise. I don't mind, but to then become subject of a topic like this is just not on.
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Old 21st December 2016
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
It would just be good to get the real context,
Indeed thank you good sir. This is where the core is at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
And then still, it would be meaningless, as the first and only pass that I send back had a clear list of shortcomings i called out in my feedback.(4k harsness issues, odd timed overcompression against the beat, considerable sucking and puffing from overlimiting, ALL in the track sent to me) clear request to fix those issues as I don't want someones money If I don't feel I can add value, or deliver a mediocre end result that can be so much better with some focussed rework of the mix.
It was not something I would consider a final master, more a lighthouse direction / magnifying glass, with a list of comments and stuff that needed fixing, to get the discussion going.
But the discussion never happened hence a final master was never made. TS did not come back to me, not even the courtesy of saying "thnx, but no thnx" of "I go back to do more work and I might get back to you" or a "thnx for the valueable input, I now know how to move forward" Nothing, nada, niente....

You get these kind of people every once and a while, hit and run. Looking for a benchmark or free mix advise. I don't mind, but to then become subject of a topic like this is just not on.
I feel you. I figured this back in the track when you explained all this to the OP and he went with the "you complicate things" comment and started to insult you instead. Laughable and sad at the same time.

Last edited by melopie; 21st December 2016 at 05:39 PM.. Reason: more text
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Old 21st December 2016
  #153
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Red Mastering's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_manu View Post
.... Today the biggest challenge in mixing and mastering is not the sound itself, but being able do do it in a way that permits you to compete in volume with the top40 songs today, and still sounding dynamic and punchy.....
that's a false statement...
sorry buddy, but other folks get it right imho,
you don't understand what mastering is, (please do not take it personaly as an attack)
after reading this thread, I do not have any doubt you misleading loudness maximization process as a whole mastering process

processing is just a little part of mastering, as other folks point it out to you,
so no need to repeat it again

I personally have more and more requests from clients asking to preserve the dynamic and do not destroy the mix for a sake of it;s loudness
and also lot of folks off EDM...would you believe?
Clients coming to me complain that their previous mastering guy, was delivering super loud and lifeless masters.

Music is not about competing with it's perceived volume,
and there was a lot of discussion here on GS, many even interesting

I think instead of showing prntscreents and some unrelated to music data - you should give an audio example, and this would allow the discussion further,
really audio ain't 'bout pictures
good luck!
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Old 21st December 2016
  #154
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RightOnRome's Avatar
Im going to chime in here to say everybody calm the f#% down!..you want him to post some of his clients material? its not his to put out there to be ripped to shreds by people who will never agree with him!

OP..If you think you would ever have a reasonable discussion on the topic of ones life long profession/livelihood, IN a forum labeled MASTERING, you sir are mistaken..

It to me is the same argument as politics or gear form China .. you will NEVER make a repub*.. a ..dem!.. especially if they grew up that way ..it just doesn't matter

on this subject, I think the debate is not WHY do we still need ME's but that software and gear is getting to the point that the ME is only being used by some recording engineers .. lets talk about WHY we need ME's .. and then explain WHERE they came from.. lets talk about a perfectly tuned room or two hundred thousand dollar speakers! lets go back to the 50's, 60's and 70's - I personally remember knowing that I didn't have any tools for the job back in the 90's.. now software and a very competitive gear market makes it possible for some of us to offer this as a solution ..

Old 21st December 2016
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
And then still, it would be meaningless, as the first and only pass that I send back had a clear list of shortcomings i called out in my feedback.(4k harsness issues, odd timed overcompression against the beat, considerable sucking and puffing from overlimiting, ALL in the track sent to me) clear request to fix those issues as I don't want someones money If I don't feel I can add value, or deliver a mediocre end result that can be so much better with some focussed rework of the mix.
It was not something I would consider a final master, more a lighthouse direction / magnifying glass, with a list of comments and stuff that needed fixing, to get the discussion going.
But the discussion never happened hence a final master was never made. TS did not come back to me, not even the courtesy of saying "thnx, but no thnx" of "I go back to do more work and I might get back to you" or a "thnx for the valueable input, I now know how to move forward" Nothing, nada, niente....

You get these kind of people every once and a while, hit and run. Looking for a benchmark or free mix advise. I don't mind, but to then become subject of a topic like this is just not on.
Let me tell you something, probably you should know.

First of all, I think I already apologized for not answering at that time, again, SORRY, that's absolutely not the correct way to proceed. No need to go back to it.

Second thing.... let's see if I'm able to explain it....

The only reason why I have gone through economic struggles since I started in music is because I always tend to underrate my job. I've always tended to reject a lot of projects because I thought there were people who would do much better than me (trust me a guy with a big ego does not do this). I demand SO MUCH from myself, probably TOO MUCH, and I prefer not to do a job if I think the result won't be astonishing. Can it be a mental dissease?It can be... I've been always told to be less insecure and more "inteligent" and take all the jobs that I'm offered, and I will go getting better and better with time. This is a problem that I'm trying to solve.

Seeing you want to keep on with this, I will go further, and being even more honest and open with you I will say that I would feel ABSOLUTELY embarrased if I usually provided clients what you and some other guys sent me back. Some of you guys sell yourself with awesome webpages, with lots of outboard and promising "deffinitive" results, and what you really send back is a less than promising sound. If there's something I really HATE is people doing the "fake it till you make it" thing, and that's something I see all the time in this business. I'm not saying you are one of this. I don't even know you and I only received a master from you, so probably you and I dind't simply understood each other, and that's all.

I find very legal to try to sell yourself in the best possible ways, it is something everybody need to do to feed his family, but then be ready when some guy like me doesn't like your work, ok?

You guys want comparation examples, and this is what I call an ego war to see who has the biggest d.... as someone before said. I'm not into those things, but anyway, I've asked three of my clients for permission to drop the masters at the forum. They didn't look receptive, but I will convince at least one of them.

Btw, I don't even have your master anymore, I think I deleted it, so if you can send it again, it would be nice.
Old 21st December 2016
  #156
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Red Mastering's Avatar
 

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wow...
just realized how hot thread it is
haven't been a while here on GS so didn't realize how far 'western' style it went
I am getting my muay thai gloves and be back here to spill some blood
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Old 21st December 2016
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RightOnRome View Post

on this subject, I think the debate is not WHY do we still need ME's but that software and gear is getting to the point that the ME is only being used by some recording engineers .. lets talk about WHY we need ME's .. and then explain WHERE they came from.. lets talk about a perfectly tuned room or two hundred thousand dollar speakers! lets go back to the 50's, 60's and 70's - I personally remember knowing that I didn't have any tools for the job back in the 90's.. now software and a very competitive gear market makes it possible for some of us to offer this as a solution ..

This is the kind of answer I've made this thread for, nothing more, nothing else. Was it so difficult guys?
Old 21st December 2016
  #158
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I've said what I wanted to say, if you went from what you did sent to me, to an approved master, power to you.
The track itself was great, your mixing at that time didn't add up. Let's leave it at that.
Old 21st December 2016
  #159
Gear Addict
 

just_manu Seriously, we need a true context, not your words to make yourself believable.
As far as we all can follow here it goes like this:

1 You send a track to Analogue Mastering
2 He puts down notes and offer solid advice to make the most out of the track
3 Analogue Mastering also sends you back and audio file which show you some direction so he can deliver a good sounding master
4 You check the advice, if you take it or not we dont know and you don't respond or show courtesy (each to their own, its not the issue here)

Summarize: Your mix was lacking to be able to get a proper and good sounding master back at the time. And then you complain.

That's not how it should be.
Old 21st December 2016
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melopie View Post
just_manu Seriously, we need a true context, not your words to make yourself believable.
As far as we all can follow here it goes like this:

1 You send a track to Analogue Mastering
2 He puts down notes and offer solid advice to make the most out of the track
3 Analogue Mastering also sends you back and audio file which show you some direction so he can deliver a good sounding master
4 You check the advice, if you take it or not we dont know and you don't respond or show courtesy (each to their own, its not the issue here)

Summarize: Your mix was lacking to be able to get a proper and good sounding master back at the time. And then you complain.

That's not how it should be.
You are absolutely right in what you say. I can't refute it. Answering should have been the way to proceed, as I said, I did it wrong, so for the 3th time, I am sorry.

I must say that I sent the same song to 3 different engineers at the same time to see the results. The other two didn't say nothing about the mix to be changed, except a small distortion that there was in the vocal in the 2 verse, so they proceeded to make the mastering test. After receiving the master tests and seeing the result, I thought the blame was ON ME, and thought I needed to improve the mix in some ways. And THAT'S one of the things I said on the post, that THEY HAD NOT THE CHANCE TO DO IT, SO SHOULD BE A WAY TO MAKE THIS POSSIBLE.

Don't know what else I should explain, honestly.
Old 21st December 2016
  #161
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I think it's all good, I did a nice topic on this 5 years ago, that might give some perspective, or help over your question.
long story short: when you finish the product end2end there is no such thing as a "mastering stage"
lot's of heat and debate on that one 5 years ago as well, but we all moved forward and now you see it a lot more often.

DIY Mastering does NOT exist....
Old 21st December 2016
  #162
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Thanks J.J., I will take a look !
Old 21st December 2016
  #163
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The OPs got another thread... Forget the topic and he doesn't get any support of whatever particular idea he has in his noggin, he posts something along the lines of, "thanks for your answers, not helpful... Obviously y'all don't know why you're talking about"...

One thread he's giving it all up 'cause he's not making any money... The next he doesn't basic stuff and is asking for help... Now he's mastering and sending tracks to labels... All in the span of a few months...

This is where my annoyance comes from... It's trolls ville, baby
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Old 21st December 2016
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_manu View Post
This is the kind of answer I've made this thread for, nothing more, nothing else. Was it so difficult guys?
Didn't go the way you'd hope, huh?
Old 21st December 2016
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_manu View Post
Melopie. Looking forward learning from pros. Guess with u that won't be the case. Thanks for your comment anyway and have a nice holidays.
You serious? You really think this kind of writing gets you any sympathies (except from Undertow for some unknown reason.. not sure why he is sucking up to you)?

Mind you, this is now the 4th time in this thread you write something similar. The amount of spite, venom and pure vile in your posts (even though it's "kind between the lines".. almost impossible to miss unless one suffers from some mental disabilities).

Do we really have to get down to these levels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by just_manu View Post
After receiving the master tests and seeing the result, I thought the blame was ON ME, and thought I needed to improve the mix in some ways.
The blame IS on you. If this thread is anything to go by, you lack one very important skill: Communication. It's very possible the "big name" dudes you sent the mix to sensed this and just didn't want to bother with you, just sent the masters back. It's one of those perks of the successful. They can choose their clients.. and they do. As another note: Did you even pay for the services or did you just use their generous "get one for free" system?
Old 21st December 2016
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
You serious? You really think this kind of writing gets you any sympathies (except from Undertow for some unknown reason.. not sure why he is sucking up to you)?

Mind you, this is now the 4th time in this thread you write something similar. The amount of spite, venom and pure vile in your posts (even though it's "kind between the lines".. almost impossible to miss unless one suffers from some mental disabilities).

Do we really have to get down to these levels?



The blame IS on you. If this thread is anything to go by, you lack one very important skill: Communication. It's very possible the "big name" dudes you sent the mix to sensed this and just didn't want to bother with you, just sent the masters back. It's one of those perks of the successful. They can choose their clients.. and they do. As another note: Did you even pay for the services or did you just use their generous "get one for free" system?
All I can say is Sorry if any of my comments did hurt someone. I can be the kindest guy ever with the people who treat me that way, and the most bully with whom I think he deserves.

Regards.
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