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Bored with the norm ... any questions? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 5 days ago
  #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfrigo View Post
Great video for understanding digital audio if you can devote 23 minutes of your life to it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM
You are wasting your time Jay. He has been given that and other links countless times... He doesn't seem interested in educating himself.

Alistair
Old 5 days ago
  #632
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Originally Posted by mastervargas View Post
dogma!? we're questioning Fourier now ... this is worthy of a
Not questioning Fourier. It works perfectly for sine waves, which is all it claims to.
Old 5 days ago
  #633
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Originally Posted by RubbaDub View Post
... which is all it claims to.
no hope


it doesnt claim it works for sine waves only

Brian I think you are probably the only one who can make him stop...
Old 5 days ago
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odeon-Mastering View Post
no hope


it doesnt claim it works for sine waves only

Brian I think you are probably the only one who can make him stop...
Or other periodic waveforms. Not music, not perfectly with the minimum sample rate necessary for periodic waveforms (44k).

As for Brian's opinion on this arcane matter taken as dogma by some of you, that's unimportant to me, what's important is Brian's abilities as an artist. Those without artistry need dogma.
Old 5 days ago
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubbaDub View Post
Or other periodic waveforms. Not music, not perfectly with the minimum sample rate necessary for periodic waveforms (44k).
Maybe you could check differences and properties of Fourier series and Fourier transform.

I don't want to dive into some mathematical definitions or derail the thread from another fruitful sample rate debate, but ask yourself a simple question.. according to your current understanding of the topic, where you apparently differentiate between "dogmas, theories for sinewaves" and something else for practical music (that would be probably cycles and some ethereal thing between those).
How it's possible then (regardless of sample rate for now), you can have something like digital filter, which is directly based on those theories, manipulating signal in frequency domain (practical application of FT or DFT for discrete signals) and at the end you can still hear the music with noise, percussive sounds?

Michal
Old 5 days ago
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
Maybe you could check differences and properties of Fourier series and Fourier transform.

I don't want to dive into some mathematical definitions or derail the thread from another fruitful sample rate debate, but ask yourself a simple question.. according to your current understanding of the topic, where you apparently differentiate between "dogmas, theories for sinewaves" and something else for practical music (that would be probably cycles and some ethereal thing between those).
How it's possible then (regardless of sample rate for now), you can have something like digital filter, which is directly based on those theories, manipulating signal in frequency domain (practical application of FT or DFT for discrete signals) and at the end you can still hear the music with noise, percussive sounds?

Michal
Because at 44k it works close enough for music that it's acceptable for the general public. That's why it's a minor issue to me. I just don't pretend that 44k works perfectly for music.
Old 5 days ago
  #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odeon-Mastering View Post
it doesnt claim it works for sine waves only

Brian I think you are probably the only one who can make him stop...
Sorry, I'm ignoring your convo, plenty of my own ideas to defend
Old 5 days ago
  #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubbaDub View Post
Because at 44k it works close enough for music that it's acceptable for the general public. That's why it's a minor issue to me. I just don't pretend that 44k works perfectly for music.
"acceptable" is a subjective and nonscientific term. Would you mind explaining your theory in technical terms, so we can all learn? How many sample points do we need to faithfully capture and reproduce complex sinewaves like music? And why?

Thanks in advance for the effort!
Old 4 days ago
  #639
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Ξ
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
Sorry, I'm ignoring your convo, plenty of my own ideas to defend
Sure...
And everyone can see the reasons
Old 4 days ago
  #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulenJVM View Post
"acceptable" is a subjective and nonscientific term. Would you mind explaining your theory in technical terms, so we can all learn? How many sample points do we need to faithfully capture and reproduce complex sinewaves like music? And why?

Thanks in advance for the effort!
I have no idea. I'm not the one with a theory, the "44k is perfect" people are.
Old 4 days ago
  #641
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Originally Posted by RubbaDub View Post
I have no idea. I'm not the one with a theory, the "44k is perfect" people are.
This is not what we were arguing about, is it?
Old 4 days ago
  #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubbaDub View Post
I have no idea. I'm not the one with a theory, the "44k is perfect" people are.
You said that their theory is dogma, so I was wondering what´s the reasoning behind the accusation. Is it based on your own experience, or is there some scientific fact supporting your belief?
Old 4 days ago
  #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odeon-Mastering View Post
This is not what we were arguing about, is it?
I was discussing human frequencies...you were arguing about bat frequencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulenJVM View Post
You said that their theory is dogma, so I was wondering what´s the reasoning behind the accusation. Is it based on your own experience, or is there some scientific fact supporting your belief?
My observation is backed by the scientific fact that digital is a flawed reduction of analog. Everyone understands that a 20k sample rate is imperfect. Some people have a theory that 44k is perfect, but they have no proof because it's a misinterpretation of the technology.
Old 4 days ago
  #644
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can you please explain why and/or how it is a misinterpretation of the technology?

we're trying to learn here.

thanks!
Old 4 days ago
  #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubbaDub View Post
I was discussing human frequencies...you were arguing about bat frequencies.
nope
noone, including myself, were arguing on this

you have totally lost the plot here mate...
Old 4 days ago
  #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scraggs View Post
can you please explain why and/or how it is a misinterpretation of the technology?

we're trying to learn here.

thanks!
44k is the minimum necessary to capture periodic waveforms up to 22k. Some people misinterpret that to mean 44k captures all sound up to 22k. All sound is not periodic waveforms.
Old 4 days ago
  #647
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so what sounds aren't being captured at 44.1?
Old 4 days ago
  #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scraggs View Post
so what sounds aren't being captured at 44.1?
Some details. Pretty minor ones. 44k works well. There are about a thousand bigger issues facing music than sample rates.
Old 4 days ago
  #649
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Originally Posted by RubbaDub View Post
Some details. Pretty minor ones. 44k works well. There are about a thousand bigger issues facing music than sample rates.
How exactly are those details lost? What happens to them? What is the non-dogmatic explanation for that?

I ask because so far you have given us a textbook demonstration of a dogmatic belief system.

Alistair
Old 4 days ago
  #650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odeon-Mastering View Post
Ξ

Sure...
And everyone can see the reasons
Sorry, can you be less snarky and more specific? I don't care to join this argument you all are having with the man. Fight on.

P.S. Those who roll out "everyone can see" are looking to bolster a weak view. That I know.
Old 4 days ago
  #651
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Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
How exactly are those details lost? What happens to them?
could be anything.

no GPS on their phones.

parents left them at the mall.

took a right at albuquerque....
Old 4 days ago
  #652
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Originally Posted by lucey View Post
Sorry, can you be less snarky and more specific? I don't care to join this argument you all are having with the man. Fight on.

P.S. Those who roll out "everyone can see" are looking to bolster a weak view. That I know.
the mqa thread i suppose...and "everyone" here is following it closely
I should have said : "everyone can see, but I am sure you could spare a few seconds to write something that could help this poor guy out as he seems to be looking up to you " .
I think you are right to have taken it the wrong way ...my bad

what is a "weak view"?

edit: At the moment I do not even understand what this guy is arguing about, to be really honest.
Old 4 days ago
  #653
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Why do things clip coming out of my iPhone speaker when they sound right on all my other playback systems?
Old 4 days ago
  #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubbaDub View Post
Some details. Pretty minor ones. 44k works well. There are about a thousand bigger issues facing music than sample rates.
Hopefully this is the end of this and we can move on. 44k works well! Thank! And like Brian I use it as well to feed my chain. Brian used the phrase low end density. Whatever it is, for the type of work I do, I tend to use 44k as well. Onwards and upwards!!
Old 4 days ago
  #655
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The thing is: its not about SRs in fact. Its about how you balance your chain (which may contain up and downsampling processes within your DAC and ADC and within plug ins you use and some offline processes with SRC tools as well). The monitor DAC is another thing that influences our perception regarding SR a lot.
Numbers means nothing... And discussions about numbers is useless.
Old 4 days ago
  #656
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Originally Posted by Odeon-Mastering View Post
edit: At the moment I do not even understand what this guy is arguing about, to be really honest.
Me too !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
Hopefully this is the end of this and we can move on. 44k works well! Thank! And like Brian I use it as well to feed my chain. Brian used the phrase low end density. Whatever it is, for the type of work I do, I tend to use 44k as well. Onwards and upwards!!
I see the benefit of higher rates for bad AD and plug in math.

And yet ... many top mixers are still at 44.1. Doing more outboard but some ITB too.
Old 4 days ago
  #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
Me too !



I see the benefit of higher rates for bad AD and plug in math.

And yet ... many top mixers are still at 44.1. Doing more outboard but some ITB too.
Got it! Been blessed to have some pretty decent AD converters over the years! Also get your point about some plug-ins liking 96k better. But the better ones do a good with the math. Overall, to me whatever benefits higher sample rates provide, for me it hasn't justified it because I like how things sound coming through my chain at 44k. But that's just me!
Old 4 days ago
  #658
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Numbers mean a lot to me and prove far from useless in many aspects of what I do, especially when it comes to getting paid!
Old 4 days ago
  #659
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Originally Posted by Conundra View Post
Numbers mean a lot to me and prove far from useless in many aspects of what I do, especially when it comes to getting paid!
Pfff... Im just working for air and love alone...
Old 4 days ago
  #660
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