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PSP Vintage Warmer - Mix engineers friend / Mastering Engineers Foe Saturation Plugins
Old 1st March 2017
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post

I think a lot of folks who over used it (and I include myself here once upon a time) suffer from: bad rooms, ear fatigue, and an inferiority complex during the worst part of the loudness war.

That isn't the plugs fault.
Yes, while clenching the L2! I still live in fear lol, the war is over, now everything is just "loud" easier.
Old 1st March 2017
  #32
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Mixing music for TV according to the EBU R128 recommendations changed my sensitivity for loudness a lot. Since then my Nugen VisLM loudness meter and the ISL true peak limiter sit in every mix. Some people seem to confuse density and overcompression respectively oversaturation and loudness but these things do not necessarily belong together. Saturation/distortion can enrich the harmonic content of a track in a very subtle and beautiful way when used care- and tastefully. This has nothing to do with loudness. Of course there is a lot of badly compressed and distorted music out there but nowadays anybody agrees that we owe these results the misleaded concept that louder is better which we now know is a mistake. End of debate... So I am far more interested in learning from the good examples. And it exists a lot of excellent mixed and mastered music. Saturated, distorted but in a very very beautiful way :-)
Old 1st March 2017
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ray View Post
PSP MicroWarmer (scaled version of VW2) has a splendid sound on percussion using the "knee" setting.

I find the drive quite obvious.

But, with great respect, I still think PSP VW was spectacular for its day and price point.

I think a lot of folks who over used it (and I include myself here once upon a time) suffer from: bad rooms, ear fatigue, and an inferiority complex during the worst part of the loudness war.

That isn't the plugs fault.
To some people "in for a little in for a lot" seems to apply. I still get mixes where the artist/recording engineer has used every free plugin they have on every track and it sounds like $hit. If asked they say "well I was trying to get this <insert name of famous artist> sound so I figured if I put on a lot of processing I could get the sound I am after". Well err um not really is what I usually say...Just once I would like to hear a DIY person say "well I was trying to be innovative so left off all the processing and just went for the best recording I could do" (never going to happen <GRIN>)

FWIW
Old 1st March 2017
  #34
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@Thomas W. Bethel,
I am sorry for my terrible german English:
What do you mean with: "in for a little in for a lot?"
Best
Old 1st March 2017
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umkuczka View Post
@Thomas W. Bethel,
I am sorry for my terrible german English:
What do you mean with: "in for a little in for a lot?"
Best

Some people think that a little of something works good so a lot of the same thing should work even better.

Think about having some great German beer. A bottle or two is great but drinking a whole case will get you pretty wasted pretty quickly.

Some people like enhancers so they put them on every channel and then wonder why their mix sounds so sibilant. Or they like some EQ at 3.5K and even though +3 sounds GREAT +9 sounds terrible.

I think the expression comes from the English expression "in for a penny, in for a pound" which mean once you have started on something it can grow out of proportion costing you a lot of time and money.

Sorry to confuse.
Old 1st March 2017
  #36
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Great thank you!
I totally agree with you. I took me years to make less and less. It's a bit like cooking: too many ingredients taste always awful at the end.
So I'm actually thinking now about cooking a nice Szechuan chicken tonight and having a good beer :-)
Cheers
Old 1st March 2017
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umkuczka View Post
It's a bit like cooking: too many ingredients taste always awful at the end.
So I'm actually thinking now about cooking a nice Szechuan chicken tonight and having a good beer :-)
Cheers
Generally true, but definitely not the case with Mexican mole sauce - to make authentic mole, you need minimum of 20-25 different ingredients, and can easily exceed that.

A lot of analogies between cooking and audio production goes hand in hand - ingredients/gear, technique, experience/knowledge, palette/taste, daring/creativity, resourcefulness, and perhaps the most important of all - talent!
Old 2nd March 2017
  #38
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Since I'm a graphic designer by day I often see parallels between it and music production, especially in mastering.

For example.... some typical methods in Photoshop to "enhance" a digital photograph might include cropping , adding touches of contrast, warmth or coolness filters, sharpness algorithms, cloning out things that shouldn't be there, perhaps blurring some areas and sharpening or spotlighting others to draw focus and attention to certain parts - before embedding data and exporting at a certain size and resolution. It's a lot like music mastering actually.

At the end you can turn a good image into something great. But something average to begin with is a lost cause.

I don't really know where I'm going with this, I think PSP are pretty cool! But... they need to update some of their old plugins. MasterComp doesn't even work in FL Studio, it just grinds the DAW to a halt for no reason - and I've had no response from PSP about it.
Old 2nd March 2017
  #39
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There are many parallels between mixing/mastering and other creative work and it helps me often when I find metaphors from other genres to clarify what I actually aiming for.
@ 12tone,
I liked your list a lot! I would add: diligence.
And I definitely need a good recipe for Mexican mole :-)
Old 2nd March 2017
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Generally true, but definitely not the case with Mexican mole sauce - to make authentic mole, you need minimum of 20-25 different ingredients, and can easily exceed that.

A lot of analogies between cooking and audio production goes hand in hand - ingredients/gear, technique, experience/knowledge, palette/taste, daring/creativity, resourcefulness, and perhaps the most important of all - talent!
Ah but it is knowing in what order and how much that make a great sauce just like in mastering. Too much of something can make a mix sound terrible or if used in moderation sound GREAT. Here is a good mole sauce recipe.Authentic Mole From Veracruz Mexico Recipe - Mexican.Food.com. I liked the addition of the prunes.

Unfortunately I only had a very small (1/2 tbs) helping as I am very allergic to peppers. It did taste great.
Old 2nd March 2017
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MogwaiBoy View Post
Since I'm a graphic designer by day I often see parallels between it and music production, especially in mastering.


I don't really know where I'm going with this, I think PSP are pretty cool! But... they need to update some of their old plugins. MasterComp doesn't even work in FL Studio, it just grinds the DAW to a halt for no reason - and I've had no response from PSP about it.

That is unusual. Usually Mateusz gets back to me within 24 hours. Maybe a big show coming up or they are working on some updates. I guess just keep trying.
Old 2nd March 2017
  #42
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Thanks for the assurance - I will try again. There doesn't seem to be an official method for reporting bugs to PSP so I'll just try the main line again.

I know that most of their stuff hasn't been updated in years as you can see when you log into your account, so I'm guessing most of their stuff is now unsupported. There is also a tendency for developers to ignore FL Studio - not sure if PSP are in that camp though.
Old 2nd March 2017
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Ah but it is knowing in what order and how much that make a great sauce just like in mastering. Too much of something can make a mix sound terrible or if used in moderation sound GREAT.
For sure - that's why there are sauciers and mastering engineers.

Though in all honesty, sauces in general are a little too 'haute cuisine' for me.

Gravies OTOH...
Old 3rd March 2017
  #44
Not that my word is gospel. But I was in a mastering session and the engineer engaged the Vintage Warmer on the record and my immediately reaction was, this sounds terrible. I tried it once as a mix tool for grins and hated it then as well. Obviously to each their own, but this one is a no go for me.
Old 3rd March 2017
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
It's probably The Sausage Fattener plugin. Yes, there is such a thing.

SAUSAGE FATTENER | Dada Life
I try my best to remain civil on this forum, and everything has its uses.

But SF and VW can piss right off.
Old 3rd March 2017
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
I try my best to remain civil on this forum, and everything has its uses.

But SF and VW can piss right off.
I'm of the same mindset for the most part. But meh on those two, and others as well for either mastering or mixing. Not to flame up a conversation about hardware verses software. But when I think of these types of plugins, and the arguments in how hardware so terribly degrades a signal, well, I really don't have much to say about the subject without coming off harsh. I'll leave it at that. Someone want's to sausage or warm their mixes, it's certainly not illegal.
Old 6th August 2017
  #47
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I think using these digital saturation plugs can damage your chances of getting a good punchy master when at the limiter stage. Pushing the loudness up on a software limiter does enough digital damage as it is.
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