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PMC LB-1's w/Tannoy Sub
Old 8th February 2007
  #1
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PMC LB-1's w/Tannoy Sub

Hi all,

Just snagged the BIG tannoy sub that I am going to try with my little PMC LB-1's. Wondering if anyone has any experience integrating a sub with the LB's. The sub in question is the PS350B 15" ported active.

I really do love the LB's by themselves as they are a very true speaker for the size. I'm just missing that last octave and need a bit more juice from the system for mixing and a sub for film work. This seemed like a nice match. Thoughts?

-ashley
Old 8th February 2007
  #2
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DBarbarulo's Avatar
Actually I have a surround setup made with LB1s and a pair of velodyne subs.
In my room subs are rolling off around 40 Hz, adding only that "missing bottom" in a subtle way for stereo works. LB1 are great spekers.
Now I'm delighting myself with a pair of IB1s and I had no "big surprises" listening back to works I did on the LBs. The same happened listening to material made with LBs on a pair of B&W 703s nor (a friend that upgraded) to B&W 802s (both in the same room).

DB
Old 8th February 2007
  #3
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What I wouldn't do for some IBS-1's...... stike

I think a lot of folks underestimate the LB-1. For the size there's nothing that touches it. Glad to hear someone else is doing roughly what I plan to do here.

Thanks,
ashley

PS what I wouldn't do for some REAL gelato!!!!
Old 8th February 2007
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassman View Post
What I wouldn't do for some IBS-1's......

PS what I wouldn't do for some REAL gelato!!!!
...is another monitor brand?

If you mean ice-cream made in Italy let me suggest you the best of the best ever produced by a little factory in Amalfi that makes a special taste, green lemon based, called Divina Costiera...

DB
Old 8th February 2007
  #5
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Just wanted to show some love for ther LB-1's.

Old 9th February 2007
  #6
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I'll be taking delivery of a pair of PMC IB1s (in cherry) in the next two weeks.

Not very much related to the topic, I'll admit. I'm just excited about getting these speakers.
Old 9th February 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBarbarulo View Post
...is another monitor brand?

If you mean ice-cream made in Italy let me suggest you the best of the best ever produced by a little factory in Amalfi that makes a special taste, green lemon based, called Divina Costiera...

DB
You got that right. Stayed in Firenze some years ago for about a week and just enojoyed everything, but the food was to die for. I miss it. They don't know how to make real gelato here in the states. Bummer....

-ashley
Old 9th February 2007
  #8
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... opening an italian ice-cream factory there looks like opening an american mastering studio here...

DB
Old 9th February 2007
  #9
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in love with lb-1's here too

cant say much 'bout the sub ... i am no Sub-system Fan ...

good luck !
cheers
Old 10th February 2007
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassman View Post
Just snagged the BIG tannoy sub that I am going to try with my little PMC LB-1's. Wondering if anyone has any experience integrating a sub with the LB's.

I really do love the LB's by themselves as they are a very true speaker for the size. I'm just missing that last octave and need a bit more juice from the system for mixing and a sub for film work. This seemed like a nice match. Thoughts?
I'm using TB2+, have not used the LB-1. PMC are pretty amazing in my experience. And I continue to recommend the Hsu subwoofers for mating with any speakers. Even the smallest STF-1 is outstanding.

I can't speak to the Tannoy you have, it might be great. I've used other big powerhouse subs over the years (JBL, Paradigm, Infinity, B&W, DefTech, etc.) and have never been completely satisifed for music applications. Those type of products always seem focused on maximum cannon-power for movie effects, with a big thump but not much for tonal response. But maybe that is what you prefer or need for your work.

At any rate, the Hsu are excellent at both, they do not get boomy, or break up, or rattle the coils, etc. With a standard bass or kick the response is tight and solid, never floppy and wandering. But when a 25 Hz synth signal comes I am always astounded at how smoothly and powerfully they react.

I have them set for quite low level, LPF at 45 Hz. And that is a 4th order crossover, so they are very easy to blend with the monitors. That subtle addition at the lowest octave really makes a big difference in how I work, even with mostly acoustic music. And I like the option to switch between either the monitors or subs or both.

As has been recommended for a long time, by B. Ohlsson and many others, I would also strongly encourage using a stereo pair of subwoofers. *Much* truer bass response and integration with the monitors. And at $249 for the STF-1 it's a no-brainer on cost. Check on the Hsu website for the professional reviews and measurements from various subwoofer experts over the years, these are the real deal.

Steve


PS congratulations Carl on your IB-1 -- let us know how it goes, I bet they are great.
Old 10th February 2007
  #11
jdg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlsaff View Post
I'll be taking delivery of a pair of PMC IB1s (in cherry) in the next two weeks.

.
fuuck
u'r gonna make me drive out to chicago this summer at this rate buddy
Old 10th February 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdg View Post
fuuck
u'r gonna make me drive out to chicago this summer at this rate buddy
Come on down! Er... I mean... across? heh
Old 10th February 2007
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlsaff View Post
Come on down! Er... I mean... across? heh
Road trip!
Old 10th February 2007
  #14
jdg
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party at carls house!
Old 12th February 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeegybug View Post
I'm using TB2+, have not used the LB-1. PMC are pretty amazing in my experience. And I continue to recommend the Hsu subwoofers for mating with any speakers. .....

....Those type of products always seem focused on maximum cannon-power for movie effects, with a big thump but not much for tonal response. But maybe that is what you prefer or need for your work.

.......And I like the option to switch between either the monitors or subs or both.


Steve
I've seen your posts about these subs. And while you seem completely convinced, I can't find a single other person using them here or on other boards. What gives? Either they are the best kept secret or ??????

I actually have a pair of TB2's that I might just end up using with this sub at first to see how it goes. One thing about the Tannoy that I really wanted was the ability to turn it and the bass management off quickly. It has a footpedal for that. How do you switch that around in your rig? Also, how do you feed the signal to your HSU sub?

If the tannoy does not delight, I would certainly entertain trying something else. I need musical bottom. I need to be able to tune kicks and low basses to work together in mixes and also check lower octaves for mastering. The LB-1's go down to 35hz amazingly, but naturally, without much oomph and doing so taxes the Bryston 3B a bit much. I'm hoping that freeing up the Bryston with a little HPF will give me some needed headroom on the PMC's while providing a potent lower octave in the Tannoy.

I also do film work, so a cannon can be fun too!!

-ashley
Old 12th February 2007
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassman View Post
I can't find a single other person using them here or on other boards. What gives?

How do you switch that around in your rig? Also, how do you feed the signal to your HSU sub?
There are others here using them, they maybe don't post too much. As with so much nice audio equipment, Hsu has traditionally focused on high end playback systems, rather than studio recording. They've been at it quite a while, and true subwoofers were originally their only product. There are many good professional measurements and critiques/comparisons out there. With a name like bassman, you might appreciate hearing them

As I'm sure you know, PMC offers a complete line of consumer audio equipment too (which is still mostly just their pro systems, in various cabinets). And McIntosh, Bryston, Bel Canto, B&W, Manley Labs, on and on... all just focused on great, accurate sound. I think many Internet forumites just regurgitate the same old things, because they are entrenched in many studios and folks are often reluctant to try new/different products. But, somebody had to be the first to try a Neve console, Neumann microphone, Massenburg equalizer, Lavry converter....

I prefer to hunt the free market for robust solutions. Of course PMC was begun with custom designs for the BBC, and is reknowned in many top level audio and video production facilities worldwide. But is not really that common in the more standard studio circles, especially in online forums.

Along with PMC speakers and Hsu subs, I use and have recommended Gordon mic preamps, Bel Canto power amplifiers, Kubala-Sosna and Belden Teflon cables, SLS speakers, etc., none of which are that widespread in the studio recording/mixing/mastering businesses. But are some of the best in the world at what they do.

BTW, I have no connection to any of these companies, just offering ideas about what has worked and brought me great satisfaction in my experience.

I run my speaker amp and subs through a Central Station monitor controller. That is easy, with dedicated passive line outs with individual trim adjustments, and individual relay switches to toggle outputs on or off, in any combination.

Steve
Old 12th February 2007
  #17
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So you're not hi-passing the PMC's, just running rull range and tucking the sub in underneath at 45 or so? I actually want to use a bit of bass management to get some headroom and the Tannoy takes care of that in a tidy box.

I could do it though using Nuendo's control room setup to rig a 2.1 to 2 setup and have the bass management stuff bypass when going to just the PMC's.

Well, its all just chit-chat until this behemouth shows up and I put it to the fire.....

Thanks for the info. I'll check out all the little companies you mentioned as well. I have no fear of unknown equipment, always looking for a deal and high performance.

thanks,
ashley
Old 12th February 2007
  #18
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Ashley - Hsu do have builtin crossovers with inputs (speaker level) that will extract the signal for the sub, and filter the bass going on to the monitors. I found with the TB2s excellent bass decay I preferred to use all of it, and let the subs just blend to fill in the lowest octave.

If you run the crossover to the Tannoy at too high a frequency, you can get into localization/stereo issues, with only a single sub. Also, toggling the sub on/off can produce pretty thin sounding output from monitors-only.

I have owned and liked Tannoy speakers, but never owned their subs. I'm sure they are nice, but some of the big subs don't always do so well at higher frequencies, can start to get a little woofy and smeared.

One thing you might consider sometime, is bi-amping your PMCs. They really respond well to that in my experience, can certainly relieve a single amp of some stress.

Steve
Old 12th February 2007
  #19
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The tannoy's HPF is at a standard 80hz. This is also good for film work. When the bypass pedal is used, the HPF is turned off as well so you get a true bypass of the whole sub/bass management system.

At 80Hz, I'm really not worried about localization issues for my work (rock/pop mixing and mastering). Maybe a stereo sub is in the future, but not at the moment. The mastering room I work in has Dunlavy's so I will have a nice reference to check against.

The TB2' s I have are bi-wired with two of the Flying Mole amps per speaker. I think that will do nicely. I still thought that both the LB-1 and TB2's sounded better with the single Bryston on them though. It just has a bit more solidity to it. That could be remedied by the sub. It certainly will be interesting. I shall report back to this thread once I've had a chance to setup and listen a bit.

-ashley
Old 12th February 2007
  #20
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if you can, is better for stereo works leave the full band to PMCs and cut the sub. This way you'll preserve the overall sound of the speaker.

DB
Old 19th February 2007
  #21
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Just an update, sub is here and sounds great. Not hooked up to PMC's yet. Have it on a B set of monitors (M-Audio BX8a's) just to mess around. Really helped those monitors a LOT. It certainly will be differnet with the PMC's. Might not use the HPF in that situation. Will report back.....

-ashley
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