The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Mastering Mains, Tyler D1x still hold up against newer B&W? Studio Monitors
Old 12th January 2016
  #1
Mastering Mains, Tyler D1x still hold up against newer B&W?

I am looking to replace my mains, looking for something actually full range, so I can drop the sub. Originally I was planning for the B&W 800D2 since I have been using the Nautilus 805s for mixing, and 804s + sub as mains for 15 years now. I know the sound. Compared to the Nautilus series, the 800D2 was already enough of a change it would take some getting used to. The D3 series changes the mid as well.
After doing a lot of reading here, and speaking with the owner at Tyler, the D1x sound like a great option, but is it really a great option, or just a great option for the price? I seem to see less talk about them lately. I wouldn't say budget doesn't matter, but I can swing the new B&Ws just fine, so is it worth it? Is Tyler a better monitor, or as good for the money? Going much above the $35k mark would be an issue, so I am not interested in "better but worth it above that price"

Thanks!
Old 12th January 2016
  #2
Gear Nut
Had a couple of B&W 802 and 801 (nautilus and matrixes) and had some trouble dealing with the mid-forward behaviour, even if I've worked on them more than 3 years each.
Replaced them with a couple of Tyler D1X.
They are faster and less mid-forward. I'm feeding the couple with two Hypex Ncore400 monoblocks, and they are delivering big time.
Tested several other alternatives, but IN MY ROOM, Tylers are AMAZING.
Old 12th January 2016
  #3
Lives for gear
 
lowland's Avatar
 

Verified Member
For those looking for larger speakers there are some interesting new kids on the block. I recently reviewed the EVE Audio SC3010 active monitor: it's a three-way with a 10" woofer, -3dB point is 29Hz and cost is £4583 plus VAT; the larger SC3012 has a 12" woofer and goes to 25Hz, £5833 plus VAT.

I found the SC3010 difficult to fault sound-wise. Both models have a new larger Air Motion Transformer tweeter which crosses over at a low 1800Hz, Class D amps throughout, and overall presentation compares favourably with (and generally costs considerably less than) any high-end system I've reviewed since I started in 2000.

I'll post a link to the review when it's available online. I have no business relationship with EVE.

Manufacturer website links:

SC3010
SC3012

Last edited by lowland; 12th January 2016 at 10:50 AM..
Old 12th January 2016
  #4
Gear Addict
 
karibu's Avatar
 

I've used B&W for a while and sincerely never completely satisfied...great speakers for sure, but IMHO not the ones you can totally trust in.
Actually my favourite (the ones I've installed in studio) are PSI Audio: when I've placed in my room OMG!!! Unbelievable response, perfect translation...I've reduced working times of around 50% getting better results...
Here the link if you're interested:

System1 - Mastering 25-225 - PSI AudioPSI Audio

I'm obviously just a PSI customer, no kind of business affiliation with them...
Old 12th January 2016
  #5
Lives for gear
 
lowland's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by karibu View Post
I've used B&W for a while and sincerely never completely satisfied...great speakers for sure, but IMHO not the ones you can totally trust in.
Actually my favourite (the ones I've installed in studio) are PSI Audio: when I've placed in my room OMG!!! Unbelievable response, perfect translation...I've reduced working times of around 50% getting better results...
Here the link if you're interested:

System1 - Mastering 25-225 - PSI AudioPSI Audio

I'm obviously just a PSI customer, no kind of business affiliation with them...
I had a pair of 25s here a couple of years ago and thought they were great.

http://www.helios-online.nl/filemana...udio_Media.pdf
Old 12th January 2016
  #6
Lives for gear
 
dietrich10's Avatar
I had two pairs of different generation 801s in here before the D1 came in. Not even close for me. But I do not know the sound of the N or D. I am sure a different league than the 801s I had
Old 12th January 2016
  #7
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
I don't have a ton of experience with B&Ws, just the older dm603. I did get to hear the new diamond 802s at a hifi place for a few minutes before the owner chased me out. I can tell you that Tylers sound nothing like them, that's for sure. The B&Ws had kind of alienating high end that I would imagine both fatiguing and a bit hard to accurately read. If you like that sound then that's probably the only way to get it.
I have the MM5X and I love them. They just sound familiar and easy to work with, and they translate fabulously. Same components as the D1X. Btw the X model is what you want, really 2x the speaker as the non X version.
Old 13th January 2016
  #8
Lives for gear
 

The December issue of hifinews ran an article on the new 802 D3. The measured frequency response is hardly what you would call flat. Starting at 500 Hz, they slope down 5 dB at 2.8 kHz and then rise back up slightly above flat at 4.5 kHz. The broad 5 dB dip at 2.8 kHz probably works in the home audiophile environment since most program material these days is excessively bright in the upper midrange. I have briefly listened to them at a local dealer and they do sound somewhat "polite". Definitely nice furniture.

OTOH, a monitor speaker for mastering needs to be as flat as possible so that you can really hear how bad your source material is. My Neumann K&H's are like that - good material sounds really good and bad material sounds really bad.
Old 13th January 2016
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I don't have a ton of experience with B&Ws, just the older dm603. I did get to hear the new diamond 802s at a hifi place for a few minutes before the owner chased me out. I can tell you that Tylers sound nothing like them, that's for sure. The B&Ws had kind of alienating high end that I would imagine both fatiguing and a bit hard to accurately read. If you like that sound then that's probably the only way to get it.
I have the MM5X and I love them. They just sound familiar and easy to work with, and they translate fabulously. Same components as the D1X. Btw the X model is what you want, really 2x the speaker as the non X version.
Interesting. Ty himself told me he'd suggest the non X version for mastering, as he though the Seas drivers in the X were a little too flattering.

Not saying you're wrong, but i'd love to for you elaborate on what you've heard!
Old 13th January 2016
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by the3030club View Post
Interesting. Ty himself told me he'd suggest the non X version for mastering, as he though the Seas drivers in the X were a little too flattering.

Not saying you're wrong, but i'd love to for you elaborate on what you've heard!
He told me the D1x would be the best choice, it was the D1X SE version that he said was too flattering. This is not the first post that has mentioned how much the X version was improved over the original D1.
Old 13th January 2016
  #11
I used 802N and then 802D push by Spectral DMA100S and paired with velodynes DD12 for 7 years. this set up worked very good in my Room, 21X16X10 Ft.

I then used Dunlavy SCV with Bryston 7Bst in a 27X16X10 room worked great, i added a set of Tylers Linnbrook signature towers, smaller than the DX1 and with the seas millenium and Excell drivers , i liked them a lot (or at least believed it) but couldn't get use to them to master

I recently got a Pair of second hand Eggleston Works Andra push by a Spectral DMA100S (one more time....) , the Tylers were gone (the same day) and the Duns went on the back of the room , pretty much zero revision on most projects (and this with speakers i don't know yet)

I can't say the Tylers were bad all the contrary but IMHO you can't really compare them to a 800' series, the nautilus are hard to set up and need a powerful amp as well as playing around with cables, the Tylers are much easier to drive (maybe the issue with some 802 owners.

as far as comparing the Tylers with the Andra, well ...

i would have love keeping the Tylers for my house one day but the cash was not here anymore after the Eggleston works

I do think Tylers are incredible for the money and a great speakers that can stand against way more expensive one but if cost is not an issue i suggest to check PMC/ATC/Eggleston Works/B&W
Old 13th January 2016
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Tarekith's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Did Ty switch back to the Seas drivers for the X versions recently? I know my D2x's didn't have the Seas drivers when I bought them, though he was offering them in a limited edition package shortly after that I did.
Old 13th January 2016
  #13
Lives for gear
 
macc's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowland View Post
For those looking for larger speakers there are some interesting new kids on the block. I recently reviewed the EVE Audio SC3010 active monitor: it's a three-way with a 10" woofer, -3dB point is 29Hz and cost is £4583 plus VAT; the larger SC3012 has a 12" woofer and goes to 25Hz, £5833 plus VAT.

I found the SC3010 difficult to fault sound-wise. Both models have a new larger Air Motion Transformer tweeter which crosses over at a low 1800Hz, Class D amps throughout, and overall presentation compares favourably with (and generally costs considerably less than) any high-end system I've reviewed since I started in 2000.

I'll post a link to the review when it's available online. I have no business relationship with EVE.

Manufacturer website links:

SC3010
SC3012
This gets a very large 'HMMMMM' from me... Interesting.

BTW Hello Nigel - was having a drink with Pat from Gemini yesterday, small world...! Hope you're well!

EDIT: Any chance of a quick comment in comparison to the PMC sound? On IB2S here... Ta!
Old 13th January 2016
  #14
Lives for gear
 
lowland's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
This gets a very large 'HMMMMM' from me... Interesting.

BTW Hello Nigel - was having a drink with Pat from Gemini yesterday, small world...! Hope you're well!

EDIT: Any chance of a quick comment in comparison to the PMC sound? On IB2S here... Ta!
Sir Bob! Where have you been all my life? Great to hear from you, do phone 01799 586 835 any time to swap war stories and more. And please give Pat a big kiss from me.

That sounds like a positive 'Hmmmm' - I don't want to over-egg it, but I think the EVEs are a real achievement for the price, Roland Stenz being one of the cleverer designers around IMO.

Re. PMC: one of the high-end systems I mentioned was their active IB2 XBD, so four IB2-sized cabs, two of which were bass extenders - list at the time was a cool £33,000, it sounded excellent as you'd expect. I like the PMC sound (I have AML1s as you probably know) and admire their ethos, but in this 30m2 room given the choice if I was buying - and bearing in mind price difference - for me a pair of EVEs would be very strong contenders.
Old 13th January 2016
  #15
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarekith View Post
Did Ty switch back to the Seas drivers for the X versions recently? I know my D2x's didn't have the Seas drivers when I bought them, though he was offering them in a limited edition package shortly after that I did.
He never put seas drivers in the X model, only the SE version.
Old 13th January 2016
  #16
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-p View Post
I used 802N and then 802D push by Spectral DMA100S and paired with velodynes DD12 for 7 years. this set up worked very good in my Room, 21X16X10 Ft.

I then used Dunlavy SCV with Bryston 7Bst in a 27X16X10 room worked great, i added a set of Tylers Linnbrook signature towers, smaller than the DX1 and with the seas millenium and Excell drivers , i liked them a lot (or at least believed it) but couldn't get use to them to master

I recently got a Pair of second hand Eggleston Works Andra push by a Spectral DMA100S (one more time....) , the Tylers were gone (the same day) and the Duns went on the back of the room , pretty much zero revision on most projects (and this with speakers i don't know yet)

I can't say the Tylers were bad all the contrary but IMHO you can't really compare them to a 800' series, the nautilus are hard to set up and need a powerful amp as well as playing around with cables, the Tylers are much easier to drive (maybe the issue with some 802 owners.

as far as comparing the Tylers with the Andra, well ...

i would have love keeping the Tylers for my house one day but the cash was not here anymore after the Eggleston works

I do think Tylers are incredible for the money and a great speakers that can stand against way more expensive one but if cost is not an issue i suggest to check PMC/ATC/Eggleston Works/B&W
Ty says that driver/tweeter combo is too flattering for mastering, and I believe him. I bought a pair of his smaller DM4X with the excel tweeters, and I can't understand those tweeters at all. They look and sound great, but are not trustworthy for working on. Nice for hifi though. I think this is why he recommends the Decade X version for mastering, which are quite revealing and trustworthy.
Old 13th January 2016
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Ty says that driver/tweeter combo is too flattering for mastering, and I believe him. I bought a pair of his smaller DM4X with the excel tweeters, and I can't understand those tweeters at all. They look and sound great, but are not trustworthy for working on. Nice for hifi though. I think this is why he recommends the Decade X version for mastering, which are quite revealing and trustworthy.
frequency response is one thing but dynamic and soundstage are also very important and in this domain , the Eggleston or B&W, Focal Utopia, Wilson Audio, are hard to beat.
Box construction and sound diffraction at one point makes the difference

the closer you get to the ''real'' sound and the easier it will be to work on the room

Tylers are great very great but IMHO Eggleston and some B&W are on an other league.

but at the end of the day what works for me or other won't work for you, so the only real way to do it is to find some second hand pairs of what you think could work in within your room and tried them out, play with them for a while, try different amp , different cable, learn about your room, change the acoustic, try other speakers.... I know it will take some time but anyway who expect to become a successful ME over night...
Old 13th January 2016
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Tarekith's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
He never put seas drivers in the X model, only the SE version.
Ok, that's what I thought, looks like one of the above posters had the info wrong then.
Old 13th January 2016
  #19
Gear Nut
 

afaik the Decade X uses custom Seas Prestige drivers and the Decade X SE uses Seas Excel drivers.
Old 13th January 2016
  #20
Lives for gear
 
dietrich10's Avatar
I will add to this thread next week as I am shooting out my D1+stereo Decade subs against ATC150 actives.
Old 13th January 2016
  #21
Lives for gear
 
aleatoric's Avatar
Does anyone here have direct experience with "upgrading" from the Tyler D1's to the D1X's? I've had my D1's for nearly 4 years now. Very happy with them, extremely used to them and revisions are far and few. That being said the D1X's are definitely intriguing as essentially they are marketed as an improved upon version of the speakers I already love and I'm a sucker for taking a great thing and making it even better.

I'm wondering just how big the difference is between the regular D1's and the D1X's and if it's worth the hassle (these things are such a pain to move or ship!) and expensive of upgrading to the X's.
Old 13th January 2016
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Tarekith's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post
afaik the Decade X uses custom Seas Prestige drivers and the Decade X SE uses Seas Excel drivers.
Interesting, thanks for that.
Old 13th January 2016
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleatoric View Post
if it's worth the hassle (these things are such a pain to move or ship!) and expensive of upgrading to the X's.
maybe you can just remove the drivers and replace them by the one Ty sells you if the crossover doesn't need to be modified.
Old 14th January 2016
  #24
Lives for gear
 
aleatoric's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-p View Post
maybe you can just remove the drivers and replace them by the one Ty sells you if the crossover doesn't need to be modified.
Not possible (without work to the crossovers and cabinet modification). Shortly after the D1X's came out I emailed Ty about buying a pair of the D1X's tweeters to check them out and see if I preferred them to the D1's tweeters. Here is what he had to say:

"The tweeters in the x model won't fit in the D1's. It's not the same size and would need cabinet and crossover work for that to happen. The tweeters are similar in sound. The ones in the x models are just a little smoother."
Old 14th January 2016
  #25
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post
afaik the Decade X uses custom Seas Prestige drivers and the Decade X SE uses Seas Excel drivers.
Huh, didn't know that. Thanks for the tip.
Old 14th January 2016
  #26
Lives for gear
 
thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleatoric View Post
Does anyone here have direct experience with "upgrading" from the Tyler D1's to the D1X's? I've had my D1's for nearly 4 years now. Very happy with them, extremely used to them and revisions are far and few. That being said the D1X's are definitely intriguing as essentially they are marketed as an improved upon version of the speakers I already love and I'm a sucker for taking a great thing and making it even better.

I'm wondering just how big the difference is between the regular D1's and the D1X's and if it's worth the hassle (these things are such a pain to move or ship!) and expensive of upgrading to the X's.
I only do with the MM5 (which is not what you asked, ha). But I can speak to the difference in the speakers themselves. The drivers are aluminum (I believe) and the tweeter is a seas of some sort. I think they sound pretty different actually but of the same family. The X sounds bigger, more defined and less diffuse to me. Focused is the word. The tweeters are smoother but also much more easy to pinpoint whats happening. That said it sounds like the D1 was a better design than the MM5 to begin with.
Old 14th January 2016
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleatoric View Post
Not possible (without work to the crossovers and cabinet modification). Shortly after the D1X's came out I emailed Ty about buying a pair of the D1X's tweeters to check them out and see if I preferred them to the D1's tweeters. Here is what he had to say:

"The tweeters in the x model won't fit in the D1's. It's not the same size and would need cabinet and crossover work for that to happen. The tweeters are similar in sound. The ones in the x models are just a little smoother."
i see , what about the rest of the drivers with a new crossover shipped from Ty's
Old 14th January 2016
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iostream View Post
He told me the D1x would be the best choice, it was the D1X SE version that he said was too flattering. This is not the first post that has mentioned how much the X version was improved over the original D1.
You're totally right, and so is Thermos. I was mistaking the X version for the SE version. My bad!!!!
Old 14th January 2016
  #29
Lives for gear
 
aleatoric's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-p View Post
i see , what about the rest of the drivers with a new crossover shipped from Ty's
The mid drivers and woofers are larger as well (that's direct info from an email from Ty).
Old 14th January 2016
  #30
Gear Nut
 
marcenavia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post
afaik the Decade X uses custom Seas Prestige drivers and the Decade X SE uses Seas Excel drivers.
I doubt here. I'm almost sure Tyler uses woofers and mids Seas Prestige in Decade X, but the tweeter is Seas Excel (T25CF). In Decade X SE, everything is effective with Excel.

and I have a question. the X version is recommended for mastering?, becouse the X SE version is flattering, rigth?
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump