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Brickwall limiter. how to? Dynamics Plugins
Old 18th July 2014
  #1
Gear Head
 

Brickwall limiter. how to?

hello quick question, how to use the brickwall limiter? for example i already have a limiter at the end of the chain.
If im going to use another brickwall limiter at the end how do i use it?
how many dbs to limit in the output? i use -0.2 dbs on the limiter but if i have another limiter after do i also use -0.2 or nothing?

Old 20th July 2014
  #2
Why do you need two?
Old 21st July 2014
  #3
Mastering Moderator
 
Riccardo's Avatar
Is 0.2 the set output "ceiling" or the gain reduction you are applying?
Old 5th August 2014
  #4
Gear Head
 

output "ceiling" 0.2
but do i need to use 1st one limiter and then a brickwall?.

or only 1?
Old 5th August 2014
  #5
Here for the gear
 
Reiwax's Avatar
 

A limiter is a brickwall (limiter). It's the same thing. It limits the level of the track.

Some people (I've seen threads here) will use more than one in very none aggressive settings because they feel it will sound better. But it all depends by how much you need to limit. IMO if you feel the need to use more than one, you can go back to your chain and be a bit more aggressive/effective with your compression amongst other things. There is no rules but I feel (IMO again) that more then 3db of limiting is a lot and you should go back to your chain.

Regarding the output ceiling, it is really easy for you to just test what it does. But if you're using a limiter that has a output ceiling it means it is also working with a auto gain (i.e. L2`). So yes, if you use 2 limiters, both need to be at -0,2. Or at least the 2nd one.
Old 6th August 2014
  #6
Gear Head
 

thanks! and how many dbs reduction is good on the limiter? for electronic dance music, like progressive trance and psytrance?
i know there is no rule but more/less how many dbs?
not more than how many?

thanks alot!
Old 6th August 2014
  #7
It's completely track dependent, but in my studio using Elephant (usually EL-4 algorithm with 8xOS), I can usually start to hear the limiting between 1.5-2.0dB, and anything over 3dB you can start to hear it having a negative impact. But track dependent, some stuff falls apart earlier, some later.
Old 6th August 2014
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
Chris Chapelle's Avatar
 

I have 4 in my arsenal, Sonnox Inflator+Limiter, Fab-Filter Pro-L and Voxengo Elephant.

It's really the thing that you should practice and know, hear and understand well.

I combine 2, never more!

Again like Gregg said it before, it's completely tracks dependent!

I never go more than 2db of Gain Reduction and I shape release and attack, curves etc…… It can change the sound so much.

I use to monitor the Side/Diff , L only and R only, when going around 2dB of GR because it can crush and crisp your cymbals really fast. I put celling around -0.4dBfs to be really safe on ISP. Nobody complains.

I hope that helps.

Best regards.
Old 7th August 2014
  #9
Good tips, I need to try listening to the Difference signal more! I leave my ceiling at 0.00 in Elephant. With 8 x OS, both the actual level and the ISP level never, ever goes above -0.05dB.
Old 9th August 2014
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
It's completely track dependent, but in my studio using Elephant (usually EL-4 algorithm with 8xOS), I can usually start to hear the limiting between 1.5-2.0dB, and anything over 3dB you can start to hear it having a negative impact. But track dependent, some stuff falls apart earlier, some later.
same here. i rarely do more than 2db and almost never more than 3.

get most of your level before the limiter.

good mixes can really take so much more abuse than bad ones.
Old 27th August 2014
  #11
Gear Head
 

and what RMS ANALIZER is the best?

Old 27th August 2014
  #12
Mastering Moderator
 
Riccardo's Avatar
There is no best "analyser" rather different sets of tools. Amongst many others useful or mastering purposes are the Flux Pure Analyzer.
Others which I have used or tried apart from the Flux and found very good are the ones from Nugen Audio, Grimm Audio and TC Electronics. There are others out there depending on what you need and your chosen DAW platform.
You can find demos for 99% of the metering plugs/apps out there so it is with trying them to see what suits you best.
Old 30th August 2014
  #13
Lives for gear
I would forget about analyzing RMS and just compare your work with the competition, how does it stack up in level and tone.

RMS measurements are not accurate, LUFS can be better but I have LUFS meters and do not use them.
Old 31st August 2014
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruairi View Post
I would forget about analyzing RMS and just compare your work with the competition, how does it stack up in level and tone.

RMS measurements are not accurate, LUFS can be better but I have LUFS meters and do not use them.
Audio engineers not using meters to me is like airplane pilots not using the gauges in the cockpit(altimeter, artificial horizon, air speed indicator, etc.).
Old 31st August 2014
  #15
But when it's all about the sound and you have a calibrated reference monitoring system in an acoustically treated space, you actually don't need to look at the meters, because you can hear straight away when things sound right (or not). Have you still not read Bob Katz's book KMan?
Old 31st August 2014
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
But when it's all about the sound and you have a calibrated reference monitoring system in an acoustically treated space, you actually don't need to look at the meters, because you can hear straight away when things sound right (or not). Have you still not read Bob Katz's book KMan?
"Art & Science"? I own it.

And nowhere within does Katz say "ignore meters".
Old 1st September 2014
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Apostolos Siopis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
Audio engineers not using meters to me is like airplane pilots not using the gauges in the cockpit(altimeter, artificial horizon, air speed indicator, etc.).
noone said they are not using any meters...
the user you quoted, only stated that they are not using RMS and LUFS meters (and he has very good reasons for doing so...). Mind you, I also have no need to look at an RMS meter or even LUFS at the moment.

...I am fairly comfident that most of us here use the correct set of tools (meters included)...(your confusion, is possibly a consequence of your lack of experience, which is fine... would you agree?)

Apostolos
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