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Use pre-delay on mastering ambience reverb?
Old 11th February 2017
  #1
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Use pre-delay on mastering ambience reverb?

I like to put a very quiet true stereo convolution reverb on the master bus with an impulse from a professional studio with the aim of tying all the tracks together in a quality space.

Is it normal to use a pre delay on this use of reverb? - and if so, how many milliseconds?

Also, my current order of plugins for mastering is...

EQ
SSL bus compressor
Ambience reverb
Tape simulator
Level hammering limiter
Dither

Is this the right order?


thxinadv
Old 11th February 2017
  #2
I'd submit that you're doing something that's so rarely done at the mastering stage that this is probably the wrong forum.

That said - There are actually plugs that say "Mastering Reverb" on them (whatever the hell that means...).

THAT said - You use the settings that best serve the mix. If there was only one setting, there wouldn't be settings.
Old 12th February 2017
  #3
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Thanks for the reply massive - having found this thread

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mast...mastering.html

i now see that adding reverb at the master stage is considered a bad idea. So to rephrase my question - If you are mastering a completely dry mix with no reverb or delay, all instruments close miced, would you put pre delay on the (high passed to keep the lows tight) reverb added at mastering?
Old 12th February 2017
  #4
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bgood's Avatar
Is it your mix? If so, how about setting up a buss with best room verb you have and send in the various elements into it with panning info so you can "put" all of those close mic'd signals into one space? Then put an eq with the old Abbey Road hp/LP curves on the reverb so as to not inject a hotshot of mud and shimmer into the mix.

That might be a more helpful application than slapping it on in the "mastering" stage.

I'm no ME, but with the exception of ozone 4 or 5, i don't know that I'd ever heard mastering and reverb used in the same sentence by an ME in my neck of Los Angeles. Time/delay fx are strictly a mixing stage thing here...
Old 12th February 2017
  #5
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
I guess ill have to give up on my room reverb on the master buss idea and go back to a send to a reverb buss on each track.

So the question becomes - for the reverb use of a nice studio impulse that you add a slight bit of to each track to try and give it a little quality room sound, how much/any pre delay?
Old 12th February 2017
  #6
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bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mildewman View Post
I guess ill have to give up on my room reverb on the master buss idea and go back to a send to a reverb buss on each track.

So the question becomes - for the reverb use of a nice studio impulse that you add a slight bit of to each track to try and give it a little quality room sound, how much/any pre delay?
Start at like 20-35ms predelay.
Old 12th February 2017
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mildewman View Post
I guess ill have to give up on my room reverb on the master buss idea and go back to a send to a reverb buss on each track.

So the question becomes - for the reverb use of a nice studio impulse that you add a slight bit of to each track to try and give it a little quality room sound, how much/any pre delay?
Here's a stab at this that will offer a completely different possibility.
I hardly ever use verb on each track- let alone a single reverb.
Sometimes the larger 'size effect' from a reverb in a mix for example can be implied by applying to just a few or some key elements.
Other tracks might like to have rather different (smaller' / shorter in time) treatments (including delays), or remain rather dry.
This also opens you up for 'ear cues that suggest front back depth that might be missed with the same or similar global' effects.
Old 12th February 2017
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by mildewman View Post
Thanks for the reply massive - having found this thread

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mast...mastering.html

i now see that adding reverb at the master stage is considered a bad idea. So to rephrase my question - If you are mastering a completely dry mix with no reverb or delay, all instruments close miced, would you put pre delay on the (high passed to keep the lows tight) reverb added at mastering?
If the client asked for something like that, I'd certainly not be against using reverb. If I really felt strongly about adding reverb to a track - or a set of dry tracks - it's easy enough to ask the client if they'd be open to that. It's happened before on both sides.

That all said -- Once it's established that it's happening, the same approach applies. The pre-delay (if any) that best serves the mix. Might be nothing, might be 20ms to make the room a little bigger, might be 100ms to make it a hall. But there is no particular rule of thumb.
Old 17th February 2017
  #9
Gear Addict
 

The thing is... Setting up a 100% wet reverb on an Aux and sending varying amounts of each instrument channel/bus through it is an accepted method to help get cohesion in a mix.

It's not that different from just slapping a touch of verb on a master, is it?
Old 17th February 2017
  #10
Lives for gear
Why would you add pre-delay to an entire track? It would only not effect the first milliseconds, then kick in for the rest of the track. If you're going to add reverb to a complete track, do it to the entire track in parallel, blend to taste.
Old 17th February 2017
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldi View Post
Why would you add pre-delay to an entire track? It would only not effect the first milliseconds, then kick in for the rest of the track. If you're going to add reverb to a complete track, do it to the entire track in parallel, blend to taste.
In all cases -global' or at the track/mix level, there's the decision as to where and how you want a reverb speak'. It might be you don't want it to touch those first few MS at all.
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