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Following grammar rules while writing lyrics
Old 10th April 2017
  #31
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
Cool. This nearly reads like "jamaican grammar". (for want of a better way of putting it!)
Patois? That's also how it read to me.
Old 10th April 2017
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
Patois? That's also how it read to me.
Yes!
Old 10th April 2017
  #33
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

.
.
Old 10th April 2017
  #34
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuldLangSine View Post
This line is from a number one song:

"In the desert you can remember your name 'cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain."

So you can not only break grammar conventions, but you can even create your own language.
I have a tit bit for that song. All of the la, la lala la la stuff was because they had not finished the lyrics yet!
Old 10th April 2017
  #35
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
I have a tit bit for that song. All of the la, la lala la la stuff was because they had not finished the lyrics yet!
I didn't know that, but I heard Otis Redding's 'Fa Fa Fa Fa Fa (Sad Song)' came from him singing what was meant to be the horn part.
Old 1st August 2017
  #36
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuldLangSine View Post
"In the desert you can remember your name 'cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain."
Wait... 46 years I've been singing it wrong?!?! I could swear the lyric was "In the desert you can't remember your name 'cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain."

NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS SONG IS ABOUT!!!!
Old 1st August 2017
  #37
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS SONG IS ABOUT!!!!
It's about four minutes and eight seconds.
.
Old 17th September 2017
  #38
Gear Head
 
Wire Grind's Avatar
 

1) I pretty sure that, without the "it", this would still be proper English. The full line seems to have the following implied meaning: "don't deny being good."

2) Again, this is proper English, although the usage sounds strange. I'm not sure whether she is thanking someone for the duration of her life, or if she is thanking someone for giving life. This might more clear within the context of the full song.

3) This is probably okay. Although note that, in some case, "always" could be confused with "all ways."
Old 17th September 2017
  #39
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuldLangSine View Post
...
In a song, you have poetic license, though. "For he's a jolly good fellow (x 3) -- no one can deny."
...
The line is 'which nobody can deny.'
Old 18th September 2017
  #40
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuldLangSine View Post

In a song, you have poetic license, though.
Still baffles me how a whole thread could grow here, when this was all there ever needed to be said.
Old 10th October 2017
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
The line is 'which nobody can deny.'
In the UK it's 'And so say all of us', which I've always thought was a bit more positive
Old 10th October 2017
  #42
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
Then again after nine days wandering around the desert he couldn't even think of a name for his horse.

I'd say that poor ole' hoss was feelin' some pain after schlepin' round the desert with some grammarless git singin' la, la, la on his back for a week.
Mr. Ed should have stuck him for some royalties or at least a quality bag of oats.
Old 25th December 2018
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by TR10 View Post
Hi!

To what extent do you follow grammar rules while writing lyrics? (in English).

English is not my first language, and I often wonder if I can sacrifice grammatical correctness to make words rhyme in given lines of e.g. a chorus...


My dilemmas:

1)
"You're good, don't deny." - English grammar requires "it" after "deny". But I'd prefer "don't deny" without "it", as it rhymes with the next line.
Do people in everyday life conversations omit "it" in such a sentence?
People say "It's all good" or "I'm good" so why not? Flip it - "Don't deny you're good." Nothing confusing about this.

Quote:
2)
"She thanks for life." - Can I leave this line this way?
The verb "to thank someone for sth" requires saying whom she thanks, right?
Depending on the line which precedes it, I could see this working as well. i.e. "The lack of strife, she thanks for life" would not leave the listener wondering.

However, were it a country song ~ some might think that you were using the term 'thinks' i.e. as many pronounce it in the American South. "I thank so."



Quote:
3)
In my lyrics I use a word "always", stressing the 2nd syllable instead of putting the accent on the 1st syllable. Shouldn't I worry about it?
(the rest of the words have a correct accent)
Nah.

Last edited by johnny nowhere; 25th December 2018 at 01:01 PM.. Reason: Clarity is key.
Old 26th December 2018
  #44
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s wave's Avatar
Language is plasmatic. Is that a word? I love dealing with syllabic stress or like the intellectuals say iambic pentameter. Complimentary consonants are also a favorite. And of course I have to say that all nouns are verbs (and all verbs are nouns) a simple thing if you think of it... and yes I struggled in English... but I still think I am right.
Old 26th December 2018
  #45
Gear Nut
 

Yes

"I've seen all good people turn their heads each day so satisfied I'm on my way"

Anyone have an idea what in HELL this means?
Old 26th December 2018
  #46
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s wave's Avatar
I always thought that was:

I've seen all good people turn their heads each day (the willfull ignorance of the masses not willing to confront important stuff thats going on)

so satisfied (I can live with that)

I'm on my way (self explanatory)

Songfacts says:

The song is divided into two sections, which are listed on the album as:

a. Your Move (running 3:35)
b. All Good People (running 3:21)

"Your Move" was written by lead singer Jon Anderson, "All Good People" by bassist Chris Squire.

In America, a single version of the song was released as "Your Move (I've Seen All Good People)," which reached #40 in December 1971. This version credits lead singer Jon Anderson as the sole composer, and was the first chart hit for Yes. When we asked Anderson what he thought of the cut-down release, he replied, "A bit disjointed." Radio stations typically play the full 6:56 version of the song.
Lead singer/lyricist Jon Anderson says that on the "Your Move" portion of this song, he was using the game of chess in this song as a metaphor for life's spiritual challenges. "Life is a game of strategically placed situations presented to you, and you have to learn to live with them and work with them," he said. "Doors are open and sometimes they're closed. It's the idea that we are surrounded by a spirit or god or energy is in time with our understanding of who we are.
This is an anti-war song. The term "I've seen all good people" is ALL the people, including the so-called enemy.

The line, "Don't surround yourself with yourself" refers to self-righteous behavior; "Move on back two squares" is a chess term meaning to retreat and rethink your position. The lyrics also refer to the queen, which is the most versatile and powerful chess piece. It talks about how news is captured for use by the queen, which uses forces to take control and manipulate troops against the enemy. War is like a game of chess.
With the line, "Send an instant comment to me, initial it with loving care," this song references "Instant Karma," which was a song recorded by John Lennon a year earlier. Lennon was a huge influence on Yes, who covered The Beatles song "Every Little Thing" on their first album.
The lines: "Just remember that the gold is for us to capture all we want, anywhere, Yea, yea, yea" refers to the rich and powerful victimizing the weak and poor. The US was taken off the Gold standard by Richard Nixon August 15, 1971 the same year this was released. >>
Old 27th December 2018
  #47
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
I always thought that was:

I've seen all good people turn their heads each day (the willfull ignorance of the masses not willing to confront important stuff thats going on)

so satisfied (I can live with that)

I'm on my way (self explanatory)

Songfacts says:

The song is divided into two sections, which are listed on the album as:

a. Your Move (running 3:35)
b. All Good People (running 3:21)

"Your Move" was written by lead singer Jon Anderson, "All Good People" by bassist Chris Squire.

In America, a single version of the song was released as "Your Move (I've Seen All Good People)," which reached #40 in December 1971. This version credits lead singer Jon Anderson as the sole composer, and was the first chart hit for Yes. When we asked Anderson what he thought of the cut-down release, he replied, "A bit disjointed." Radio stations typically play the full 6:56 version of the song.
Lead singer/lyricist Jon Anderson says that on the "Your Move" portion of this song, he was using the game of chess in this song as a metaphor for life's spiritual challenges. "Life is a game of strategically placed situations presented to you, and you have to learn to live with them and work with them," he said. "Doors are open and sometimes they're closed. It's the idea that we are surrounded by a spirit or god or energy is in time with our understanding of who we are.
This is an anti-war song. The term "I've seen all good people" is ALL the people, including the so-called enemy.

The line, "Don't surround yourself with yourself" refers to self-righteous behavior; "Move on back two squares" is a chess term meaning to retreat and rethink your position. The lyrics also refer to the queen, which is the most versatile and powerful chess piece. It talks about how news is captured for use by the queen, which uses forces to take control and manipulate troops against the enemy. War is like a game of chess.
With the line, "Send an instant comment to me, initial it with loving care," this song references "Instant Karma," which was a song recorded by John Lennon a year earlier. Lennon was a huge influence on Yes, who covered The Beatles song "Every Little Thing" on their first album.
The lines: "Just remember that the gold is for us to capture all we want, anywhere, Yea, yea, yea" refers to the rich and powerful victimizing the weak and poor. The US was taken off the Gold standard by Richard Nixon August 15, 1971 the same year this was released. >>
I remember jamming with Jon several years ago. It was just the two of us and we jawing about this and that, so I finally asked him what the line was supposed to mean. What he told me was that the words simply sounded good together and that he frequently used that approach. I was kind of relieved to learn that it wasn't really intended to necessarily make any sense

When I saw this thread, it reminded me of that conversation. From what I gather, a great deal of effort has been expended to decipher the deeper meaning of his lyrics. He does run very, very deep, though. I'm sure most of his work is absolutely loaded with conscious intent.
Old 28th December 2018
  #48
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s wave's Avatar
Nice and funny - that was a rule of business: always know the answer when you ask the question. Oh yea good one you asked the question. But seriously; thanks for the beautiful insight. And I think I have written a song or two and have told people I don't know what it means... excellent very confusing too
Old 28th December 2018
  #49
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
Nice and funny - that was a rule of business: always know the answer when you ask the question. Oh yea good one you asked the question. But seriously; thanks for the beautiful insight. And I think I have written a song or two and have told people I don't know what it means... excellent very confusing too
Some of my best work runs along cryptic lines You can't argue with success. It certainly works for him.

Yes, I've long been curious to know if any others had found that opening line a little difficult to get their heads around (as I did). It's not something you bring up while standing in line at the grocery checkout. Couldn't pass up the opportunity to get the answer from the source. Another of life's mysteries solved
Old 28th December 2018
  #50
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s wave's Avatar
Nice yea. I am currently writing multi genre things... I love the cadence/stress and internal rhyme of that phrase. Satisfy I; Fast internal rhyme. Multiple entendres, And the double 'S' lead in... So Satisfy. I am big fan of meditating on certain sections of songs. That rates a 10 in my book. The consonant set up is great. Never jammed with headliners like Jon but I jammed with Paul and John in a lucid dream... hope to do it again soon but this time with my songs. fingers crossed.
Old 28th October 2019
  #51
b_e
Here for the gear
 

How about this:

immune
to the point where i
could die
no reason why i should
just go on
into the gone

Does the last word make sense, and does it sound alright? I guess there is no such thing as the gone in English (or only in combination like "the dead & gone"), but while I feel that most people would understand what is meant here, I wonder how this expression appears aesthetically?
Old 28th October 2019
  #52
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_e View Post
How about this:

immune
to the point where i
could die
no reason why i should
just go on
into the gone

Does the last word make sense, and does it sound alright? I guess there is no such thing as the gone in English (or only in combination like "the dead & gone"), but while I feel that most people would understand what is meant here, I wonder how this expression appears aesthetically?
There is nothing wrong with it... (it would be more widely accepted if the song was named "..Into the Gone" because that would clearly spell it out that this is what you mean... like you are - defining 'into the gone'

I mean 'gone girl' is widely accepted now because the movie kind of coined the phrase as the title - then explained it in the movie. Real hook LOL then explained what the heck it was. Without explanation it means similar to - he disappeared into the mist or the dark. They didn't know where his where abouts was but he wasn't here no more...

I think it is all about framing it the way you want...
Old 29th October 2019
  #53
Lives for gear
 

That’s true but “gone girl” plays into colloquial speak a bit, it’s not entirely random.

Most grammar errors you want to be in the direction of popular/colloquial/regional/slang speech. Or else obviously poetic. I feel like the “into the gone” line may not quite be either.

Which then doesn’t actually matter, there are no rules and anything is potentially possible as an emotionally moving or hit record. But some lines have a lot more potential than others, some familiarity in the way of slang will help connect with more people, where odd combinations of words may push people away.
Old 29th October 2019
  #54
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by b_e View Post
Does the last word make sense?
Sure!

I mean, things are either "here" or they're "gone"!

...So in other words, there can only be "that which is here" ("The Here", if you will) or "that which is gone" ("The Gone").
...Right?
.
Old 29th October 2019
  #55
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s wave's Avatar
Agreed Newguy1, 'into the gone' is just on the outside of informal speech. There is room in a song to title something that is unknown to the masses and then educate them through the song. (I remember Bill Cosby show tried to create a main stream idiom and could never do it! lol) A song has a lot more or different power to frame a meaning of a phrase. If it is set up correctly it works really well. 'Monster Mash' etc. I actually love when this is done. It gives a song one extra area to vault it's popularity. The trouble is, if (like you said) its outside of colloquial type stuff - it can miss the mark bad and be annoying or sound stupid.

Other ways to use it well is to repeat the edgy phrase - use: 'into the' here - 'into the' now - 'into the' gone. Some other thing worth watching is how it comes across without the written word. Double entendres creep up unwantedly - and "into" is one of those words.

There has been famous fongs that have been misheard or understood for years.... when the original meaning was really not understood outside of the artist/producer... and sometimes the bastardized meaning was better!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #56
Gear Head
All three are good, and in song (see I didn't say the song), and maybe better than the formal.
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