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Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings
Old 10th April 2015
  #1
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3U Audio's Affordable LDC Microphones w/ Multiple Voicing

...there are a few higher-end LDC mics that offer multiple voicings, but I've never seen one this affordable...anybody have any experience with one of these?...considering pulling the trigger to test one...build quality looks quite nice...WIMA caps, proper 9.5:1 ratio transformer (as in )...

3U Audio Warbler Condenser Microphone Switchable Sound Styles Vocal Instrument | eBay

http://3uaudio.com/chanpin.asp?dh=1

-

(thought I'd add this to kidvybes OP - (Blast9 mod)

taken from post 442 https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11177740-post442.html

Teal CM-1- edge-terminated capsule (251) - transformer-less FET output

Black CM-1 - center-terminated capsule (87) - transformer-less FET output

Warbler Mk1 (aka "Warbler" on the 3u website) - center-terminated capsule (87) - FET w/9.5:1 transformer-coupled output

Warbler MK II - center-terminated capsule (47) - FET w/6.5:1 transformer-coupled output

Warbler MK III - edge-terminated capsule (C12) - FET w/12:1 transformer-coupled output

Warbler MK IV - edge-terminated capsule (251) - FET w/12:1 transformer-coupled output

Warbler MK V* - edge-terminated capsule (*dark) - FET w/12:1 transformer-coupled output

Warbler Mk VI - a brighter version of of Mk I, similar to Sony C800G . The darkest setting is similar to a U87

* the voicing of the MK V is quite unique and while it might border on the dark side of a 251, it has a voicing that responds almost ribbon/dynamic like...

...and then, of course, there are the premium GZ-series FET and tube offerings...the designations (GZ67, GZ251, GZ47) are somewhat self-explanatory...these employ dual-diaphragmed capsules allowing for multiple polar-pattern settings...they also employ American and British made transformer-coupled output...
Attached Thumbnails
Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-_57.jpg   Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-_57aa.jpg  

Last edited by Blast9; 14th November 2016 at 11:27 AM..
Old 11th April 2015
  #2
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I'd be a little concerned just judging by other Chinese made u87 copies I've heard. Most of them had a tinny quality with harsh high ends.

Have you ever looked at Michael joly and oktava mod?

He's got some mods for a few different mics that sound very close to a u87, and no worse IMO, just slightly different color. They Run About 400-600 usd.

I've got him to mod some stuff and it's fantastic. Unlike the mic you posted it won't contain cheap parts and capsule. He strip all that stuff out and puts in high quality components and a really open signature capsule he's developed.

My 500 dollar mics from him hang with the big boys stand next to 1000-4000 dollar mics without question.

I have no affiliation just sharing my experiences. Best bang for buck gear in my studio, and some of best sounding, came from him.

As for the multiple voicing part have you tried Antares vst microphone mod or emulation plugin? I forget the name.. i have it and i have gotten some neat effects out of it
Old 11th April 2015
  #3
Gear Nut
 

I used to have that Antares mic modeler thing - I can't remember if I sold it or simply dumped it - anyway, I thought it was rubbish.

Otherwise, the mics from this Warbler bloke look strangely familiar, like something I've seen but not actually owned...
Old 11th April 2015
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainMarc View Post
I used to have that Antares mic modeler thing - I can't remember if I sold it or simply dumped it - anyway, I thought it was rubbish.

Otherwise, the mics from this Warbler bloke look strangely familiar, like something I've seen but not actually owned...
looks like every other u87 Chinese replica maybe! There's lots of brands that use those same components. I'm sure the mic chasis is probably used for more than just that one mic.

As far as the plugin goes I kind of agree but it's not bad if used subtly as an effect or like an eq. You can get some neat sounds out of it or some really horrendous ones. I think I've used it like 3 times in my life.

A 300 dollar mic has a hard time sounding great with one voicing so I'm highly skeptical - but that's just an assumption

If you buy this mic and it somehow turns out amazing let us know. I'm always down for some inexpensive gems out there.
Old 11th April 2015
  #5
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Thread Starter
Well, I did some more research on these mics and found some interesting information...the gentleman behind these multi-voiced "Warbler" microphones is a veteran microphone design engineer that has worked for some of the better manufacturers in China since the 80's and later relocated in Australia...he started his own company a few years ago, and he designs these mics entirely himself...the transformers are custom-wound, the capsules are manufactured to his specifications and the mics employ very high-quality capacitors and resistors (Dale and WIMA)...so they are designed in Australia and then hand-soldered/assembled in one of the better Chinese factories (and shipped from there to minimize shipping expense)...

So these are not OEM/stock Chinese designs, like most of the typical Chinese LDC mics that fall into this price range...these are new designs based upon this engineer's many years of designing for other more costly brands...most importantly, the K67, K47 and C12 style capsules being employed are built to his specifications and are not sourced from other manufacturers in China...

As far as the Oktavamod options, most of those modifications are based upon replacing the stock K67-style capsules with a K47-style capsule which tames the top-end harshness associated with the cheaper Chinese mics that employ typical Schoeps-style circuits (with no high-end attenuation) most of which are also transformerless designs...that process works quite well when addressing many of the cheaper OEM/stock Chinese mics, but the difference here is the mics are designed from the ground up, utilizing circuits that are already modified to better suit the combination of transformer, capsule and tube (when employed)...so there is no harsh top-end, or cheap components, so the need for after-market modification has already been addressed...

As a matter of fact, this multi-voiced "Warbler" model is being offered in three different configurations...the standard "87-style" as I posted above, and "47-style" (Warbler MKII) which employs a capsule very similar to that which Oktavamod uses for the majority of their mods, and a third "C12-style" (Warbler MKIII) which employs an edge-terminated capsule with extended high and low-end response...you can clearly see from the interior pics, that not only is the capsule different in each of the Warbler models, but the circuit designs vary as well as the transformers employed, as you would find in much more expensive product lines...

Here is the link to the 3U website:
3U Audio Microphones,Condenser Microphones
...you can see that there are pictures of the build interior quality of all the mics (how many manufacturers offer pictures of their circuits and the type of components employed?)...WIMA capacitors are used even in the least expensive models, while the higher-priced models boast Fairchild FETs, Dale resistors and even Lundahl and AMI transformers...

Clearly this new line of mics are not your daddy's Chinese LDC microphones...I'm hoping to try one of the Warbler variants and report back...

Last edited by kidvybes; 20th April 2015 at 07:57 PM..
Old 11th April 2015
  #6
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Looking at the the frequency plot for the Warbler, kinda, sorta looks like a Studio Projects CS1 with switchable high and low pass filters, except the Warbler has transformer coupling(?)
Attached Thumbnails
Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-cs1-lplot.jpg  
Old 11th April 2015
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkF48 View Post
Looking at the the frequency plot for the Warbler, kinda, sorta looks like a Studio Projects CS1 with switchable high and low pass filters, except the Warbler has transformer coupling(?)
...excellent observation...I found the CS-line of mics by Studio Projects to be exceptional value in LDC microphones...the CS5 is my favorite for stacking hi-count multi-tracked background vocals...minor tweaks on the high-pass and polar-pattern switches allowed me to create very effective choral affects, even when only one vocalist was singing all the many harmony parts...

...if these "Warbler" mics turn out to be as well-built as the SP CS mics, it would be another exceptional product at reasonable cost...

Old 11th April 2015
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...excellent observation...I found the CS-line of mics by Studio Projects to be exceptional value in LDC microphones...the CS5 is my favorite for stacking hi-count multi-tracked background vocals...minor tweaks on the high-pass and polar-pattern switches allowed me to create very effective choral affects, even when only one vocalist was singing all the many harmony parts...

...if these "Warbler" mics turn out to be as well-built as the SP CS mics, it would be another exceptional product at reasonable cost...

You've definitely got my attention. Thanks for summarizing your research for us here. The price is phenominal and I'm intrigued how it performs.
Old 11th April 2015
  #9
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ADK Thor
Old 11th April 2015
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retinal View Post
ADK Thor
...good observation...but maybe the ADK Odin (being cardioid only) is even closer...they all share the 3-voicing feature, but I believe this company may have upped the game by employing output-coupled transformers, and offering a choice of capsule styles (K67, K47 and C12)...

...as it stands, there are very few inexpensive LDC mics that employ a K47 or C12 type capsule, since the demise of KEL Audio...
Old 12th April 2015
  #11
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ADK, that's what it reminds me of, The black model looks like an a6, or whatever it was called, can't remember exactly.

Anyway. a very interesting find.
Old 12th April 2015
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...there are a few higher-end LDC mics that offer multiple voicings, but I've never seen one this affordable...anybody have any experience with one of these?...considering pulling the trigger to test one...build quality looks quite nice...WIMA caps, proper 9.5:1 ratio transformer (as in U87)...

3U Audio Warbler Condenser Microphone Switchable Sound Styles Vocal Instrument | eBay
Looks really nice, but how is this different than one of the offerings from Advanced Audio? I know that Dave offers mics with all three types of capsules: C12, U47 and U67.
Old 12th April 2015
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarboy94 View Post
Looks really nice, but how is this different than one of the offerings from Advanced Audio? I know that Dave offers mics with all three types of capsules: C12, U47 and U67.
...yes, Dave offers mics with all three capsules, but none of the AA mics offer switchable/multiple voicing...the Lauten Atlantis does, as does the ADK Odin and Thor...the combination of switchable/multiple-voicing and the choice of K67, K47 or C12 capsule is unique, particularly at this pricepoint ($299)...

Attached Thumbnails
Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-_57.jpg   Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-_57gg.jpg  
Old 13th April 2015
  #14
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Kidv,

Okay, that makes sense. If you buy this, let us know what you think of it!
Old 14th April 2015
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarboy94 View Post
Kidv,

Okay, that makes sense. If you buy this, let us know what you think of it!
...intrigued, so I have a couple coming...I'll report back!

Last edited by kidvybes; 19th April 2015 at 07:40 PM..
Old 19th April 2015
  #16
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...I just received the "Warbler II", I have to say these mics are quite impressive (at this price-point of course)...loaded with German WIMA capacitors, custom-wound BV.08 type transformer, and a very nice quality, true K47-type capsule...this mic sounds good!...no harsh top-end, or hyped brightness...plenty of bottom...good articulation...this is a very solid product, worthy of a higher price-point, IMHO...

...the voicing options though, are a bit different then described on the eBay ad...they are 3 distinctively different settings...the "V1" position, to my taste, is the best all-around, balanced voicing...this "V1" setting is somewhat reminiscent of the now discontinued KEL HM-7U which also employed a K47-type capsule, but the Warbler II also adds a 47-style output tranny which gives the mic a bit more sonic girth/weight (dare I say "mojo"?)...based on what I can remember from my first-generation HM-7U, the Warbler II may have just a touch more articulated tone (slightly more crisp) which is not a bad thing at all...

...based on a quick auditioning (just my speaking voice) the other 2 voice options, "V2" sounds like it has a slight low-cut, and "V3" sounds like "V1" with added top-end boost...so there are 3 different choices, but I would describe them differently than as is explained on the website...I hope to have a female vocalist available to demo the 3 different voice options sometime in the next week or two, at which time I will post the soundfiles...the differences should be more distinct and discernible on a singing voice...the Warbler II also features a set of low-cut and pad switches to boot...

...but all things considered, this little "47-style" LDC punches well above it's price class (not to mention offers multiple voicings)...the Warbler II is very impressive at $299...since the more costly KEL HM-7U is no longer available, this mic could be the best alternative short of building or modding an existing mic with a K47 capsule...at $299 pre-built with this quality of components, it's a bargain, IMHO...

...I did a bit of research on the factory that is producing these mics, and while I don't want to get into any trouble naming names, suffice to say, these mics are being produced alongside some much more costly and respected brands...this is a lot closer to the top of the Chinese mic "food-chain" then I would have expected at these price points...

Attached Thumbnails
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Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-img_1652.jpg   Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-img_1653.jpg   Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-img_1658.jpg  

Last edited by kidvybes; 23rd April 2015 at 07:49 PM..
Old 23rd April 2015
  #17
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I just tested the Warbler I with K67-style capsule and U87-type 9.5:1 tranny (2 bottom pics) and I like it even better than the Warbler II (47 style)...smoother on the top-end and slightly bigger bottom...this one sounds very similar to my Lewitt LCT540 ($599) at half the price...

...but the big surprise are the cheap (2 for $199 shipped) CM-1 FET condenser mics...these things sound surprisingly good (again reminiscent of KEL Audio)...the black-bodied mic has the same K67 capsule as the Warbler I, and the teal-bodied has a very nice edge-terminated C12-style capsule...both have nice quality components on the audio output segment of the circuit (WIMAs)...and shock-absorbing Capsule mounting supports...I don't understand how they can sell these so cheap...

...a big, smooth sounding C12 style FET condenser mic for $99? (if you buy the pair)...seriously, how'd they do that?

Anybody looking for a nice pair of cheap FET condenser mics (not bright or hashy at all!) check these out:
3U Audio Black CM1 Matched Pair Condenser Microphones Vocal Instrument Pro Mic | eBay
3U Audio Teal CM1 Matched Pair Condenser Microphones Vocal Acoustic Guitar Mic | eBay

Or a "sampler" option with one of each the CM-1 versions:
3U Audio Black Teal CM1 Large Diaphragm Condenser Microphones | eBay

...the teal version with the edge-terminated C12-style capsule sounds big and smooth, with no signs of a hyped top-end (to the contrary!)...not what I'd expect from the typical edge-terminated capsule, but really nice!...almost, dare I say, "ribbon-like" smoothness...these mics remind me of the KEL Audio FET mics that had very distinct voicings, straying away from the typical Chinese hyped top-end characteristic...
Attached Thumbnails
Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-img_1665.jpg   Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-20150417_200354.jpg   Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-20150419_200010.jpg   Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-20150419_200047.jpg  

Last edited by kidvybes; 23rd April 2015 at 07:56 PM..
Old 23rd April 2015
  #18
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Wonder where the mic bodies come from? Lot of similarity to my ADK Vienna mk8 body
Thinking about it, the Black and Teal are voiced sort of like the ADK Vienna and Hamburg as well except added switch functionality.

Old 23rd April 2015
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkF48 View Post
Wonder where the mic bodies come from? Lot of similarity to my ADK Vienna mk8 body
Thinking about it, the Black and Teal are voiced sort of like the ADK Vienna and Hamburg as well except added switch functionality.
...I think you're on to something...the cheaper CM-1 mics have three-way high-pass and pad switches (like the Odin and Thor)...almost like similar features have been swapped between models...

...but the Teal CM-1 with the C12 capsule is much more subdued on the top-end than the Vienna, which is a "brighter" mic...people looking for "big, smooth and warm" characteristics in an inexpensive mic would do well to look into these...hopefully there will be others posting their thoughts on these...

...if you go to the 3U website, there are both higher-quality FET versions and some tube versions with classic designations (GZ67 Tube and GZ67 FET for example)...similar to the Z-Mod line?:
3U Audio Microphones,Condenser Microphones

...have seen all the quotes about the Z-Mod capsules being designed by an "unnamed aerospace engineer in Australia"? (the guy behind these mics is a physicist based in Sidney...coincidence?...
Attached Thumbnails
Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-img_1667.jpg   Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-img_1668.jpg  

Last edited by kidvybes; 23rd April 2015 at 09:41 PM..
Old 23rd April 2015
  #20
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Whats about the self noise with these mics?
Old 24th April 2015
  #21
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Old 24th April 2015
  #22
Thank you for all this great information Kidvybes. I've been looking for a new vocal mic for myself and the Warbler looks like something worth seriously considering. Forgive me for this question but the u87 is so far beyond my price point I've never even bothered looking at it. Is it pretty much a once size fits all mic, where its going to sound good on practically any voice? If so, would you say the Warbler fits that same bill? I'm looking for myself to use it. I'm a tenor, I sing in the vein of Chris Cornell and Richard Patrick... If I were tracking with you, would this be one of the first mic's you'd try on me? Sorry for the cheeseball question, I just don't want to buy another vocal mic that doesn't give me the sound I want. Thanks again for all the great info!
Old 24th April 2015
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumstick View Post
Thank you for all this great information Kidvybes. I've been looking for a new vocal mic for myself and the Warbler looks like something worth seriously considering. Forgive me for this question but the u87 is so far beyond my price point I've never even bothered looking at it. Is it pretty much a once size fits all mic, where its going to sound good on practically any voice? If so, would you say the Warbler fits that same bill? I'm looking for myself to use it. I'm a tenor, I sing in the vein of Chris Cornell and Richard Patrick... If I were tracking with you, would this be one of the first mic's you'd try on me? Sorry for the cheeseball question, I just don't want to buy another vocal mic that doesn't give me the sound I want. Thanks again for all the great info!
...first, I haven't yet found a "one size fits all mic", and recommending a mic to someone casually without at least hearing them sing is precarious at best...but the vintage 87 (not the current "AI") has been a mainstay in pro studios for decades...it doesn't work on all voices certainly, but when it does, it can sound quite good...

...the Warbler (I) appears to be modeled more upon the older 87's sound, meaning it has a less articulated top-end, and the fact that it offers 3 voice-settings (progressively less bright) gives the option of possibly flattering a broader range of voices...so, it could be a good solid addition to your mic collection...

...generally when I start working with a new vocalist I put up a few mics (the usual suspects) and an 87-type is often included...most of my best vocal mics are fashioned after the Neumann classics (47, 67, 87)...if you have the kind of dynamic voice like Chris Cornell, it would be important to choose a mic that can hold that range without sounding strident or harsh...I believe the Warbler can do that, but until I get a dynamic vocalist in my studio to test it, I'm making a somewhat educated guess based on how my own voice sounds on it...

...it is a very even , balanced sounding mic, with very nice low-mids and good articulation without exhibiting any edgy-bite on the upper range, as many mics in this price class often do...I've had the JJ Audio modded V67 (also emulating an 87-style voicing) and I currently have a Lewitt LCT540 which sounds to me to be somewhere between the classic C414 and 87 voicings...the Warbler (I w/K67 capsule) compares nicely to the much more expensive ($599) Lewitt...and the Lewitt, like many of the new AKG and Neumann mics is transformerless, and largely SMC (surface-mounted components)...the Warbler has very nice PCB-mounted WIMA capacitors, Fairchild FET, Dale resistors,and other quality components like the replica 87-type 9.5:1 tranny...

...I hope that helps...I don't think you'll be disappointed at $299...
Attached Thumbnails
Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-img_1663.jpg   Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-img_1664.jpg   Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-w1-600.jpg  

Last edited by kidvybes; 24th April 2015 at 03:51 AM..
Old 24th April 2015
  #24
Thanks again... Yes, that's very helpful. I found it on Ebay... However, I noticed the seller has an ebay score of 2! Is that where you bought yours?
Old 24th April 2015
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumstick View Post
Thanks again... Yes, that's very helpful. I found it on Ebay... However, I noticed the seller has an ebay score of 2! Is that where you bought yours?
...No, I initially inquired directly thru the company website about the products, and then placed an order, but the mics were shipped from the same location as the units being offered on eBay... don't let the low eBay rating scare you off...the eBay seller is the owner of 3U Audio, and he has only been offering these new mics for a very short time...to be honest, it was his reputation as a high-profile design-engineer in both the Chinese and Australian manufacturing communities that prompted my interest in his products...

...I suspect, once a few other people get these mics in their home studios to work with, the word on these will spread quite quickly...reminds me of the early days of KEL Audio, another small but very well-designed, good-quality line that became very popular after people had a chance to use their products...
Old 24th April 2015
  #26
You're the man, Kidvybes... thanks so much for your input. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on this.
Old 24th April 2015
  #27
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Old 24th April 2015
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jule View Post
Wow, 6dBA! Should be quiet enough for most things.
In your experience, how much truth is in their data sheets?
That is for the CM-1 which has FET input and output stages. Good FETs are pretty quiet.
Old 24th April 2015
  #29
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I bought a 3U Audio CM-1 yesterday off of ebay for $130 bucks! The seller will give you a tremendous deal if you send him a reasonable offer. I'm guessing that right now the owner is barely breaking even. Right now is the time to get a good deal before demand goes up and prices increase. Kidv sent me clips and I was very impressed. Thanks again, Kidv!
Old 24th April 2015
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jule View Post
Wow, 6dBA! Should be quiet enough for most things.
In your experience, how much truth is in their data sheets?
...all that I can say is that the man behind this line of products has had vast experience designing mics for other brands, some of which are very well respected, so I trust that he knows his business...since this brand is so new to the marketplace, I can't speak to the fine details, but the few 3U mics that I've been testing are impressive, certainly at these price-points...

...I'm looking forward to hear other's thoughts once they have hands-on experience with these...

Quote:
Originally Posted by haysonics View Post
That is for the CM-1 which has FET input and output stages. Good FETs are pretty quiet.
...true, and he employs Fairchild FETs, which are very high-quality...

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarboy94 View Post
Kidv sent me clips and I was very impressed. Thanks again, Kidv!
...I hesitate to post those files because they are just the initial imprompt takes of me talking into the mics, but if anyone would like to hear them, please PM me and I will send them to you...I hope to have some proper vocal tracks to post soon, and look forward to others doing the same...

Last edited by kidvybes; 24th April 2015 at 02:03 PM..
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