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Old 4th May 2016
  #2911
Here for the gear
 

They both sound good to me. I do prefer the Neumann in this case. The Warbler is useable and of course is not a clone of an 87 so I'm not surprised at all. It's not an 87 but is in the style of a vintage 87. It does have a similar vintage vibe. Thanks for sharing the sound files!!!
Old 4th May 2016
  #2912
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I didn't read this long thread but microphone parts has mics and kits that have a cardiode/omni switch inside.
Mmmmm yes because this thread is so long over the excitement of a cardiode/omni switch

You guys are unbelievable
Old 4th May 2016
  #2913
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike110492 View Post
Yeah, these are totally raw. Both mics placed as close as possible going into Neve pres, recorded on the same take. I was surprised by just how compressed the 87 naturally is. It sounds huge!
Yeah I would have to agree that u87 sounds compressed and huge compared to the mk1.

I would have to echo what a couple of the other guys have said that my mk1d doesn't sound anything like that mk1. Not to say your mk1 doesn't sound good.But my mk1d is very three dimensional, punchy, weighty, with a little creamier highs and exhibits more of what the u87 in your posted clip is doing although not as hyped. Might be worth sending the clips to 3u audio. Definitely confirms my want to do some rentals and shoot them out.

Also for anyone interested the new designed SDC will be out in a couple months it looks like
Old 4th May 2016
  #2914
Gear Addict
 
bringmewater's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquertheblock View Post
Yeah I would have to agree that u87 sounds compressed and huge compared to the mk1.

I would have to echo what a couple of the other guys have said that my mk1d doesn't sound anything like that mk1. Not to say your mk1 doesn't sound good.But my mk1d is very three dimensional, punchy, weighty, with a little creamier highs and exhibits more of what the u87 in your posted clip is doing although not as hyped. Might be worth sending the clips to 3u audio. Definitely confirms my want to do some rentals and shoot them out.

Also for anyone interested the new designed SDC will be out in a couple months it looks like
that's disappointing. the previous 90 pages led me to believe the MK1 and U87 were so close as to be all but indestinguisable. Maybe I read what I wanted to read into it. Clearly they are very different mics if i'm understanding these posts correctly.
Old 4th May 2016
  #2915
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bringmewater View Post
that's disappointing. the previous 90 pages led me to believe the MK1 and U87 were so close as to be all but indestinguisable. Maybe I read what I wanted to read into it. Clearly they are very different mics if i'm understanding these posts correctly.
I'm not sure you read, comprehended, or understood my post correctly. Let me simplify it...

I'm saying that mk1 clip posted DOESNT exhibit the characteristics of my mk1d which DOES exhibit more of the characteristics of the u87 clip posted, as some of these other posts are saying, just not quite as compressed and hyped. Make more sense?

To your other comment, you definitely read what you wanted to read into it because I don't recall any users in here saying the two mics were so close they were "indistinguishable". I've read several comments about exhibiting some of the same characteristics, etc...Again it's over 90 pages, but I don't remember "indistinguishable" ever being used...that would just be ridiculous. I did read some prefer the mk1d....but never that they were identical.
Old 4th May 2016
  #2916
SEED78
Guest
lets rem how cheap this mic is - and that the very fact its in the same ballpark as a vintage U87 is where the excitement is. other pics in this price range would be unlikely to come as close.

I'm certainly keen to buy one.
Old 4th May 2016
  #2917
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bringmewater's Avatar
 

yeah I'm pretty lost on this thread. I was thinking the 3u mics were being promoted as very close emulations of these vintage mics but it seems more they are tip of the hat versions to the vintage versions. I'm sure the word indistinguisable was not used, it was my interpretation from the dialogue. Great info here. Thanks and keep it coming. I'm in the market for a mic but when a customer is confused he does nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquertheblock View Post
I'm not sure you read, comprehended, or understood my post correctly. Let me simplify it...

I'm saying that mk1 clip posted DOESNT exhibit the characteristics of my mk1d which DOES exhibit more of the characteristics of the u87 clip posted, as some of these other posts are saying, just not quite as compressed and hyped. Make more sense?

To your other comment, you definitely read what you wanted to read into it because I don't recall any users in here saying the two mics were so close they were "indistinguishable". I've read several comments about exhibiting some of the same characteristics, etc...Again it's over 90 pages, but I don't remember "indistinguishable" ever being used...that would just be ridiculous. I did read some prefer the mk1d....but never that they were identical.
Old 4th May 2016
  #2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringmewater View Post
yeah I'm pretty lost on this thread. I was thinking the 3u mics were being promoted as very close emulations of these vintage mics but it seems more they are tip of the hat versions to the vintage versions. I'm sure the word indistinguisable was not used, it was my interpretation from the dialogue. Great info here. Thanks and keep it coming. I'm in the market for a mic but when a customer is confused he does nothing.
The Warbler mics are more 'in keeping with a design and capsule that is fundamentally similar to' their mentioned counterparts more than clones of them. And keep in mind that Guosheng tuned the prototype capsules (and corresponding circuits) using his own ear, inducing individual interpretation into the equation (alliteration, ha!). Yes, (I imagine) he probably wanted to end up with clones when he started out, but he trusted his ears and produced these superb, useful mics in the same vein as their targets, both sound and quality-wise. IMHO..

If the U87 and ELAM251 had never existed, and Guosheng came up with and produced these two mics (the W1 and the W4) as they are now, we would still have a huge thread because they are truly effective tools for the amount of money paid for such quality components. Try one, the wait sucks (unless you live near someone to demo) but the mics are worth it..
Old 4th May 2016
  #2919
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bringmewater View Post
that's disappointing. the previous 90 pages led me to believe the MK1 and U87 were so close as to be all but indestinguisable. Maybe I read what I wanted to read into it. Clearly they are very different mics if i'm understanding these posts correctly.
Again, although I haven't AB'd them head to head yet, the audio I've tracked with a U87 is much closer to the audio I'm getting with my Warbler MKID's than that mono OH clip would suggest.

Could be that my Warblers sound different or the U87 I use sounds different.

We need more comparisons to really know the scoop.
Old 4th May 2016
  #2920
Gear Addict
 
bringmewater's Avatar
 

So did he develop the mics in a studio with musicians trying recordings of vocals, drums etc A/B'ing real U87s, C12s and 251s or were they developed in isolation using just his experience and memory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by downrazor11 View Post
The Warbler mics are more 'in keeping with a design and capsule that is fundamentally similar to' their mentioned counterparts more than clones of them. And keep in mind that Guosheng tuned the prototype capsules (and corresponding circuits) using his own ear, inducing individual interpretation into the equation (alliteration, ha!). Yes, (I imagine) he probably wanted to end up with clones when he started out, but he trusted his ears and produced these superb, useful mics in the same vein as their targets, both sound and quality-wise. IMHO..

If the U87 and ELAM251 had never existed, and Guosheng came up with and produced these two mics (the W1 and the W4) as they are now, we would still have a huge thread because they are truly effective tools for the amount of money paid for such quality components. Try one, the wait sucks (unless you live near someone to demo) but the mics are worth it..
Old 4th May 2016
  #2921
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Piedpiper's Avatar
From this one comparison, I don't think they sound even similar, maybe not as divergent as is possible, but not particularly similar. And again, it's not about better or worse, just very different. And without a direct properly conducted comparison, I don't think there's much point in talking about how they really are similar based on memory.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bringmewater View Post
yeah I'm pretty lost on this thread. I was thinking the 3u mics were being promoted as very close emulations of these vintage mics but it seems more they are tip of the hat versions to the vintage versions. I'm sure the word indistinguisable was not used, it was my interpretation from the dialogue. Great info here. Thanks and keep it coming. I'm in the market for a mic but when a customer is confused he does nothing.
I am with you on all counts including the frequency response curve issue!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SEED78 View Post
lets rem how cheap this mic is - and that the very fact its in the same ballpark as a vintage U87 is where the excitement is. other pics in this price range would be unlikely to come as close.

I'm certainly keen to buy one.
I came looking for the shootouts comparing to vintage U87s touted by the maker but haven't found them (except that one just posted). The mics are cheap, and that's good, but there are a lot of mics that are cheap and good. Rode, AT, and many others. I do think all these mic makers marketing themselves as being similar to old classics may be a disservice in the end, at least for me.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2923
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
I am with you on all counts including the frequency response curve issue!




I came looking for the shootouts comparing to vintage U87s touted by the maker but haven't found them (except that one just posted). The mics are cheap, and that's good, but there are a lot of mics that are cheap and good. Rode, AT, and many others. I do think all these mic makers marketing themselves as being similar to old classics may be a disservice in the end, at least for me.
I'm not trying to get into a tit for tat, but no one EVER claimed the mic was identical to a u87 or had the same freq response curve.... even in the Instagram post you referenced, never was was it mentioned the mic was a sonic clone of a u87 or even trying to put it off as such.

"Dale resistors, and the very same Fairchild FET as in the 87". That statement is TRUE

"BTW, this model has been shot out against vintage 70's U87s on multiple occasions, in that thread and we more than hold our own...at $349 shipped, that's quite a feat!...we also destroyed a competitor in a head-to-head matchup..."
-again I don't know about multiple U87 shootouts in this thread but it has been with multiple mics over its price point, akg c414s, expensive tube mics, expensive clone mics, other "competitors" that cost more, etc...this thread is more than just shootouts, it's about actual user experience which should serve as more value to you because no one in this thread, as far as I know, has an elite level recording studio, or are scientists, to eliminate all variables. The pure fear of competitors regarding these mics displayed in this thread should be of great value too.

It's a little bit of a disservice to 3u audio to say they tout the mics as clones to the original classics. That's what people are reading into and over-exaggerating based on excitement and what they are reading... happens around here a lot I mean everyone here loves gear. As far as I've read they have ALWAYS been claimed as being vintage voiced, which they are...having some of the same attributes as certain classic mics they were inspired by, which they do.

As far as Rode and AT mics I find 3u audio to be superior than both brands as well as getting much better value for my money. ESPECIALLY the GZ series. You should try a GZ or grab a mk1d...if you don't like it just sell it on here or eBay and get your money right back.

Sometimes this place can be interesting...if a u87 is THAT important to someone save your money, collect aluminum cans during spare time, focus on work and get a raise, sell some stuff, do whatever it takes to get one. The only thing that is a U87 is a U87...and even those have variations within themselves. The only way you will get a U87 is by getting a U87; to think otherwise is just silly.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2924
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bringmewater View Post
So did he develop the mics in a studio with musicians trying recordings of vocals, drums etc A/B'ing real U87s, C12s and 251s or were they developed in isolation using just his experience and memory?
This is the kind of question I don't think anyone here can answer. I know he has designed capsules in the past for other companies from what I have gathered, and by his product the guy knows what he is doing. You can email him directly and ask him yourself; he is usually pretty good with responding to things. If he is traveling it could take a week or so to get back to you. I'm sure he has gotten a lot busier recently so if you do have a bit of patience, I dont think its a gigantic operation. I'm not sure what level of gear you use or are used to using, but there is a lot of value here and worth taking a shot in my opinion.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2925
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquertheblock View Post
I'm not trying to get into a tit for tat, but no one EVER claimed the mic was identical to a u87 or had the same freq response curve.... even in the Instagram post you referenced, never was was it mentioned the mic was a sonic clone of a u87 or even trying to put it off as such.

"Dale resistors, and the very same Fairchild FET as in the 87". That statement is TRUE

"BTW, this model has been shot out against vintage 70's U87s on multiple occasions, in that thread and we more than hold our own...at $349 shipped, that's quite a feat!...we also destroyed a competitor in a head-to-head matchup..."
-again I don't know about multiple U87 shootouts in this thread but it has been with multiple mics over its price point, akg c414s, expensive tube mics, expensive clone mics, other "competitors" that cost more, etc...this thread is more than just shootouts, it's about actual user experience which should serve as more value to you because no one in this thread, as far as I know, has an elite level recording studio, or are scientists, to eliminate all variables. The pure fear of competitors regarding these mics displayed in this thread should be of great value too.

It's a little bit of a disservice to 3u audio to say they tout the mics as clones to the original classics. That's what people are reading into and over-exaggerating based on excitement and what they are reading... happens around here a lot. As far as I've read they have ALWAYS been claimed as being vintage voiced, which they are...having some of the same attributes as certain classic mics they were inspired by, which they do.

As far as Rode and AT mics I find 3u audio to be superior than both brands as well as getting much better value for my money. ESPECIALLY the GZ series. You should try a GZ or grab a mk1d...if you don't like it just sell it on here or eBay and get your money right back.

Sometimes this place can be interesting...if a u87 is THAT important to someone save your money, collect aluminum cans during spare time, focus on work and get a raise, sell some stuff, do whatever it takes to get one. The only thing that is a U87 is a U87...and even those have variations within themselves. The only way you will get a U87 is by getting a U87; to think otherwise is just silly.
I don't think I'm misrepresenting anything, it's not me who brought up the concept of comparing to vintage u87s or other vintage mics. Now you are bringing up shootouts with akg mics and expensive tube mics. I never used the word "clone". And I do think it's misleading to use model numbers of well known mics by anyone. That's just my opinion. I was hyped up on it, but now I'm finding it somewhat of a turn-off.

I came looking for the shootouts mentioned by the maker, and I guess these others you speak of, that's all. And yes, as of now, I agree, the only way one gets a U87 is by getting a U87.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2926
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
I don't think I'm misrepresenting anything, it's not me who brought up the concept of comparing to vintage u87s or other vintage mics. Now you are bringing up shootouts with akg mics and expensive tube mics. I never used the word "clone". And I do think it's misleading to use model numbers of well known mics by anyone. That's just my opinion. I was hyped up on it, but now I'm finding it somewhat of a turn-off.

I came looking for the shootouts mentioned by the maker, and I guess these others you speak of, that's all. And yes, as of now, I agree, the only way one gets a U87 is by getting a U87.
I get what you are saying regarding numbering, but it's the age of branding and advertising; kind of have to expect that. Especially with so many different makers out there. You have to have something that peaks interest to get you in the door. Whether you stick around in the room is going to be the quality you bring to table.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2927
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquertheblock View Post
I get what you are saying regarding numbering, but it's the age of branding and advertising; kind of have to expect that. Especially with so many different makers out there. You have to have something that peaks interest to get you in the door. Whether you stick around in the room is going to be the quality you bring to table.


Ha! They got me, didn't they! I've been searching about on various much more expensive mics, and so any search with U87 and the like is going to bring this thread up and these mics up. Naturally, with all the talk about those old expensive classics in this thread, who wouldn't be curious about them and want to hear the shootouts?
Old 5th May 2016
  #2928
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Re. MKI vs. U87.

A bad apple maybe?

It happens.

Within any brand.

Some more than others.

But it does happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquertheblock View Post
I would have to echo what a couple of the other guys have said that my mk1d doesn't sound anything like that mk1. Not to say your mk1 doesn't sound good.But my mk1d is very three dimensional, punchy, weighty, with a little creamier highs and exhibits more of what the u87 in your posted clip is doing although not as hyped. Might be worth sending the clips to 3u audio. Definitely confirms my want to do some rentals and shoot them out.
I'm guessing it's a pretty typical Mk1 (I know people have said the 1D is different, I have no experience with it, so I don't know just HOW different). I think it's just a matter of perspective. A while ago I posted a drum clip of my Warbler vs a Lauten Clarion and everyone was mentioning the weight, natural compression, and 3D quality of the Warbler. I just think that when you put it up next a vintage 87, the 87 just has MORE or all of that. I still think it's a killer deal for $300 weather it sounds like an 87 or not. I've gotten some really nice results with it on vocals.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2929
SEED78
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
Rode, AT, and many others. I do think all these mic makers marketing themselves as being similar to old classics may be a disservice in the end, at least for me.
If you are happy with off the shelf mics like Rode and AT buy one. I personally think if you've read this thread in detail you'll see the build and parts are next level, it only seems isk (worth looking at their mics too) is hanging in this price range quality wise in terms of the competition, not Rode and AT.

There is a seperate demo thread for this brand, with shootouts people have put a lot of effort into. Check the gz47fetV, I thought it sounded brilliant! Worth checking
Old 5th May 2016
  #2930
80425
Guest
I'm loving my Warbler Mk1D so far, I pulled the trigger and purged a few other condenser's so it was a no-brainer really.

Guoshong was a quick to reply & it only took a week flat to get here to Chicago, gotta love that I've been tracking vocals & breaking it in; v1 is definitely my favorite setting for this application so far. As previously mentioned,this is killer for a mono drum overhead-might have to order another for a pair! I'll be tracking duo/group vocals later this week testing out the patterns so that should be a treat to experiment with. I also snatched a black cm-1 but that doesn't arrive until tomorrow so I look forward to testing that out as well (second hand not sure if those are still out of stock awaiting body parts)
Old 5th May 2016
  #2931
Lives for gear
 

Let's also not forget the MKVI takes over where the MKI leaves off.

So if the MKI is too dark for one's liking or purpose, the MKIV can go quite a bit brighter.

And brighter equals more transient detail, all other things being equal.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2932
Gear Addict
 
bringmewater's Avatar
 

All good points but if the model has 67, 251, 12 or 87 in it and the design is very similar and the look is similar it's not a leap to say they are trying to make a clone and to compare it as such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquertheblock View Post
I'm not trying to get into a tit for tat, but no one EVER claimed the mic was identical to a u87 or had the same freq response curve.... even in the Instagram post you referenced, never was was it mentioned the mic was a sonic clone of a u87 or even trying to put it off as such.

"Dale resistors, and the very same Fairchild FET as in the 87". That statement is TRUE

"BTW, this model has been shot out against vintage 70's U87s on multiple occasions, in that thread and we more than hold our own...at $349 shipped, that's quite a feat!...we also destroyed a competitor in a head-to-head matchup..."
-again I don't know about multiple U87 shootouts in this thread but it has been with multiple mics over its price point, akg c414s, expensive tube mics, expensive clone mics, other "competitors" that cost more, etc...this thread is more than just shootouts, it's about actual user experience which should serve as more value to you because no one in this thread, as far as I know, has an elite level recording studio, or are scientists, to eliminate all variables. The pure fear of competitors regarding these mics displayed in this thread should be of great value too.

It's a little bit of a disservice to 3u audio to say they tout the mics as clones to the original classics. That's what people are reading into and over-exaggerating based on excitement and what they are reading... happens around here a lot I mean everyone here loves gear. As far as I've read they have ALWAYS been claimed as being vintage voiced, which they are...having some of the same attributes as certain classic mics they were inspired by, which they do.

As far as Rode and AT mics I find 3u audio to be superior than both brands as well as getting much better value for my money. ESPECIALLY the GZ series. You should try a GZ or grab a mk1d...if you don't like it just sell it on here or eBay and get your money right back.

Sometimes this place can be interesting...if a u87 is THAT important to someone save your money, collect aluminum cans during spare time, focus on work and get a raise, sell some stuff, do whatever it takes to get one. The only thing that is a U87 is a U87...and even those have variations within themselves. The only way you will get a U87 is by getting a U87; to think otherwise is just silly.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2933
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bringmewater View Post
All good points but if the model has 67, 251, 12 or 87 in it and the design is very similar and the look is similar it's not a leap to say they are trying to make a clone and to compare it as such.
Again, no one claimed these are clones or that the maker tried to make such animals.
But I do hear you about the number designation. E.g. a U67 is really a special design that does its own thing. It's not simply a K67 capsule with a tube circuit, as I've tried to explain in a recent thread. And The GZ47fetV is actually inspired on the M49 ...
Now we can get all hung up on this, but it's not really that important. Also, it happens all the time. It's the majority of customers actually that like to think in terms of the old standards, so they have some clue in which direction (!) they can expect the things to sound. Not a perfect world, but hey.

In order to really understand what the fuss of this thread is all about one should really read the whole darn thing. Only then one will or should understand that all the above is moot and that one can take advantage of getting some very nice and vibey mics for little money. Directly from the maker that is, so wholesale and retail steps are skipped.

For those who really don't want to read through it all (yes, we're all very busy, of course) I will try to write a summary in my own words. This will not replace reading the thread, but it might shed some more light.


Hhamiltonwrote:
Quote:
I am with you on all counts including the frequency response curve issue!
No surprise there.
Best or most accurate U67 clone?


Quote:
Ha! They got me, didn't they!
No one got you. Some people tried to help, that's all. And nobody here makes money from it (except the maker, a bit).
You either take advantage of the possibilities or you move on. Both are fine.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2934
Gear Addict
 
bringmewater's Avatar
 

I did read all 98 pages fwiw. Also, no microphone is 'magic'. They are made in factories by humans and machines with materials and with good research a clone should be easy to completely duplicate. I don't see why it seems so hard for them to make clones actually. Btw, my last favorite mics were CAD Audio trion 8000 (loved it and will probably get another) and the SM7B (very nice too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Again, no one claimed these are clones or that the maker tried to make such animals.
But I do hear you about the number designation. E.g. a U67 is really a special design that does its own thing. It's not simply a K67 capsule with a tube circuit, as I've tried to explain in a recent thread. And The GZ47fetV is actually inspired on the M49 ...
Now we can get all hung up on this, but it's not really that important. Also, it happens all the time. It's the majority of customers actually that like to think in terms of the old standards, so they have some clue in which direction (!) they can expect the things to sound. Not a perfect world, but hey.

In order to really understand what the fuss of this thread is all about one should really read the whole darn thing. Only then one will or should understand that all the above is moot and that one can take advantage of getting some very nice and vibey mics for little money. Directly from the maker that is, so wholesale and retail steps are skipped.

For those who really don't want to read through it all (yes, we're all very busy, of course) I will try to write a summary in my own words.


Hhamiltonwrote:


No surprise there.
Best or most accurate U67 clone?




No one got you. Some people tried to help, that's all. And nobody here makes money from it (except the maker, a bit).
You either take advantage of the possibilities or you move on. Both are fine.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2935
Lives for gear
 

Bringmewater wrote:

Quote:
I did read all 98 pages fwiw.
If you didn't read diagonally (not saying you did) then I don't understand what the problem is.


Quote:
Also, no microphone is 'magic'. They are made in factories by humans and machines with materials and with good research a clone should be easy to completely duplicate.
Try to replicate a vintage transformer. Many have tried ...


Quote:
I don't see why it seems so hard for them to make clones actually.
If anyone can make a true clone in the first place, I'm pretty sure Guosheng could if he wanted.
The thing is, he doesn't want to.

For those who want to have the actual circuit of a vintage U87 (but don't want to pay the price for a vintage Neumann) take a look here:
Vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com
Old 5th May 2016
  #2936
Gear Addict
 
bringmewater's Avatar
 

So no one can make the transformer? Is the recipe unknown ? Nobody has unwound one ? Is the core some magical mixture ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Bringmewater wrote:


If you didn't read diagonally (not saying you did) then I don't understand what the problem is.




Try to replicate a vintage transformer. Many have tried ...




If anyone can make a true clone in the first place, I'm pretty sure Guosheng could if he wanted.
The thing is, he doesn't want to.

For those who want to have the actual circuit of a vintage U87 (but don't want to pay the price for a vintage Neumann) take a look here:
Vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com
Old 5th May 2016
  #2937
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bringmewater View Post
So no one can make the transformer? Is the recipe unknown ? Nobody has unwound one ? Is the core some magical mixture ?
You know, I've honestly tried to help you in the last week or so.
But you just seem to want to argue and question everything I say.
I could try to write a whole debate about core laminations, alloys then and now, contaminations, aging, ways of winding etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc., but I don't think there's any point.

Also, cloning wasn't and isn't the point to begin with.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2938
Gear Addict
 
bringmewater's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
You know, I've honestly tried to help you in the last week or so.
But you just seem to want to argue and question everything I say.
I could try to write a whole debate about core laminations, alloys then and now, contaminations, aging, ways of winding etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc., but I don't think there's any point.

Also, cloning wasn't and isn't the point to begin with.
If discussion and asking questions is arguing then you misunderstand me. i'm going to ask a sh*t ton more questions too so if that's offensive then I'm sorry. I research things in depth. It's who I am. I spend 20 hours researching washing machines. Now I have a Speed Queen.

I understand transformers too and they are not rocket science either. I didn't spend years working on Maxwell's equations for nothing. Cloning is certainly a valid part of this discussion too.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bringmewater View Post
If discussion and asking questions is arguing then you misunderstand me. i'm going to ask a sh*t ton more questions too so if that's offensive then I'm sorry. I research things in depth. It's who I am. I spend 20 hours researching washing machines. Now I have a Speed Queen.

I understand transformers too and they are not rocket science either. I didn't spend years working on Maxwell's equations for nothing. Cloning is certainly a valid part of this discussion too.
I gladly leave it to others to answer the sh*t ton more.

I believe I've done my part.

Carry on.
Old 5th May 2016
  #2940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
I gladly leave it to others to answer the sh*t ton more.

I believe I've done my part.

Carry on.
Your input has been appreciated just so you know !
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