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Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings Condenser Microphones
Old 19th November 2015
  #1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMacCartney View Post
This is the most informative thread I’ve ever seen…

I’d like to buy a new LDC for recording vocals. At the moment I have only 2 microphones, Kel HM-7U and HM-3C. For vocals, I’ve been using mostly HM-7U, sometimes HM-3C for backing vocals (and also for ac.gtr).
When I bought these Kel mics and tested these for the first time (2 or 3 years ago), I was actually quite disappointed how my voice sounded with with HM-7U after using my previous mics like AKG-C3000, Octava MK-319, TLM 103 that I unfortunately didn’t have anymore. So for some reason my voice / HM-7U is not a good combo.

I’ve been reading this thread and listened most of the audio examples and I now have two possible 3U Audio candidates in mind…but first I would really appreciate if anyone could take a minute and listen to my voice on the full mix below and / or attached dry voice sample, which doesn’t have any processing, just my voice > HM-7U into GAP Pre Mark 2 > Apogee Duet.

thank you in advance

I think I'm finally ready to pull the trigger and order Warbler MK IV. I sent an email to Guosheng yesterday and he replied almost immediately.

I'm just wondering that is MK IV "the mic" for recording also ac. gtr? Better than my Kel HM-7U or HM-3c? (To my ears HM-3 sounds much better than HM-7 on ac. guitar) Or could one of those CM-1's be a good choise? I'm going to sell one or both Kel's anyway (if I'm happy with this/these 3Uaudio mics.) Or any other inexpensive mic that would be good for recording acoustic gtr, maybe some SCD?

Any thoughts?

Last edited by iMacCartney; 20th November 2015 at 01:19 PM..
Old 19th November 2015
  #1502
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMacCartney View Post
I think I'm finally ready to pull the trigger and order Warbler MK IV. I sent an email to Guosheng yesterday and he replied almost immediately.

I'm just wondering that is MK IV "the mic" for recording also ac. gtr? Better than my Kel HM-7U or HM-3c? (To my ears HM-3 sounds much better than HM-7 on ac. guitar) Or could one of those CM-1's be a good choise? I'm going to sell one or both Kel's anyway (if I'm happy with this/these 3Uaudio mics. Or any other inexpensive mic that would be good for recording acoustic gtr, maybe some SCD?

Any thoughts?
Finger style or with a pick? A lot of the cheaper, and even more expensive SDCs are bright which can serve finger style but can exacerbate pickiness, especially if the pick is thin and the strings are light.
Old 19th November 2015
  #1503
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iMacCartney View Post
I think I'm finally ready to pull the trigger and order Warbler MK IV. I sent an email to Guosheng yesterday and he replied almost immediately.

I'm just wondering that is MK IV "the mic" for recording also ac. gtr? Better than my Kel HM-7U or HM-3c? (To my ears HM-3 sounds much better than HM-7 on ac. guitar) Or could one of those CM-1's be a good choise? I'm going to sell one or both Kel's anyway (if I'm happy with this/these 3Uaudio mics. Or any other inexpensive mic that would be good for recording acoustic gtr, maybe some SCD?

Any thoughts?
I think the Warbler IV is great for acoustic but I personally prefer the Teal CM-1 by a slight margin. That could be because I'm using 1073s which are already adding some weight.
I've got a KM84 here right now and I've been doing acoustic guitar recording with that and the CM-1. The KM84 is special, as you'd expect, but the CM-1 has some similar sonics, despite being a totally different kind of mic.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll be happy with a CM-1 or a Warbler IV.
Old 19th November 2015
  #1504
SEED78
Guest
At the price really seems worth getting a CM1 for a utility mic, as well as a GZ/Warbler.
Old 19th November 2015
  #1505
@Piedpiper; with a pick
@Ragan; I will get Warbler IV mainly for vocals, to replace my Kel HM-7U. I'm actually not a guitar player but sometimes I have to play the gtr's if any of my real guitar player friends are not available....so when I do, I also use '73 inspired pre, GAP Pre73 mk2. I'm pretty sure that MK IV sounds better on my voice that HM-7 and it would be great and big extra if it also sounds better than either of my Kel's on acoustic gtr.

Thanks for your feedback.
Old 20th November 2015
  #1506
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
I don't think of harmonic distortion when I think of a "neutral" mic. I also don't think of any of the 414's I've heard as "dull". A bit unexciting maybe, but the ones I've used have been fairly on the 'bright' side. I don't know that I'd want a mic that made a 414 sound "dull" in comparison... but who am I to say?
I do have my knob on my gap-73 turned just a touch. That may be the distortion I'm hearing. It's not an amount that would make me think the mic is not neutral. It's a mid-high distortion that sounds amazing imo, and I'm sure with the pre bypassed the mic will sound very clean. I have yet to play around with it much since I'm helping a friend build his home studio at the moment. But I will record clips and post them once I have time. When I say the mic sounds neutral to me I mean I don't hear any hyped frequencies. Everything sounds balanced. My akg sounds dull in comparison (scooped in the mids), but also has more sibilance.
Old 20th November 2015
  #1507
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adampaulson1217 View Post
Cool, that's what I have and lately I've been considering selling it to fund a pair of mk1d's. I've been wary, though, because of not being able to try them beforehand. I look forward to hearing the clips you record!
What would you be recording with these? And through what pre/comp/etc? I'll be a few days on my voice clips as I'm helping a friend build a small home studio but when I get the time I'll be sure to post them. My 414 is also going to eBay/Craigslist now because of the warbler.
Old 20th November 2015
  #1508
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Am View Post
What would you be recording with these? And through what pre/comp/etc? I'll be a few days on my voice clips as I'm helping a friend build a small home studio but when I get the time I'll be sure to post them. My 414 is also going to eBay/Craigslist now because of the warbler.
I'd be recording vocals, drum OH's, acoustic and electric guitars. Also very likely auxiliary percussion and other various things. I record through a ua solo 610 and focusrite isa two pre and often track through an art pro vla II. I also have a pair of audio technica 4041's for oh and acoustic duties, as well as various shure, ev and akg dynamic mics, but would really like a pair of ldc's. The 414 has been a great utility mic for me, but I do find the sound a little 'vanilla' if you know what I mean, and it is very tempting to be able to replace it with a pair of mics.

My only concern with the mk1 is for my vocals, which can be a little cutting in the 2-3 kHz area if I'm not careful. I have a feeling the IV might suite my voice better, but the mk1 does seem like the most all purpose mic. Quite the predicament haha.
Old 20th November 2015
  #1509
Gear Nut
 

From what I understand the mk1 is the most mid-forward mic, modeled after the u87. I wouldn't say it's identical to the u87 but shares characteristics. In fact some people are saying they like the mk1 over the u87. Once I get more experience with mine I'll let you know what I think as far as that region goes. But right off the bat I'm loving it. I use mine primarily for hiphop vocals and have a bit of a throaty voice (think future). A friend of mine also sounds very good on it and he's quite a bit punchier and more nasally (think Eminem). I think it's a mic designed to be great on all sources, but not excel on just one just like a u87 would. The IV from what I understand is a bit smoother and more tamed while still having some airy-ness that isn't harsh. I believe it's designed to share characteristics with a c12. Both of these mics are an incredible value and would be worth trying out. More clips will surely surface in the next few weeks comparing the warbler mics I'm sure. A lot of people are jumping on them now, and for good reason.
Old 20th November 2015
  #1510
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adampaulson1217 View Post
I'd be recording vocals, drum OH's, acoustic and electric guitars. Also very likely auxiliary percussion and other various things. I record through a ua solo 610 and focusrite isa two pre and often track through an art pro vla II. I also have a pair of audio technica 4041's for oh and acoustic duties, as well as various shure, ev and akg dynamic mics, but would really like a pair of ldc's. The 414 has been a great utility mic for me, but I do find the sound a little 'vanilla' if you know what I mean, and it is very tempting to be able to replace it with a pair of mics.

My only concern with the mk1 is for my vocals, which can be a little cutting in the 2-3 kHz area if I'm not careful. I have a feeling the IV might suite my voice better, but the mk1 does seem like the most all purpose mic. Quite the predicament haha.
In other words I believe an mk1 would be a safe bet. However the IV may be better suited for you specifically.
Old 21st November 2015
  #1511
Gear Maniac
 

CM67se tube microphone No 12AX7!!!

Hi Ragan, not sure what you mean by OEM???

Just trying to keep you guys in the loop about what some of the professionals are using in major studios around the world LOL!!!


BTW, I am repairing a lovely old KM86i for a client.

The KM86i is a side address 3-pattern fet microphone.

It has what looks like two KM84 type capsule configured on a single mount.

The switch selects:-

OMNI, both capsules with their diaphragms pulled to ground.
Both backplates are connected to 48v

CARDIOD, capsule 1, diaphragm...no connection
capsule 2 diaphragm is connected to +48v
Both backplates are connected to 48v

FIG 8, capsule 1, diaphragm connected to 48v and back-plate connected ground.
capsule 2 diaphragm connected to ground.
Back-plate 2 connected to 48v

The backplate of capsule 1 is connected into the fet via a 470pf capacitor.

The KM86 capsules measure about 33pf each.

In an LDC that measures about 80pf then you need a larger 1000pf.

From the FET on the circuit is identical to a KM84.

The distance between the diaphragms of the two capsules is 28mm
while the distance between diaphragms in an LDC capsule is roughly 6mm for a AK47 type and 9mm for an AK12 type.

It will be interesting to listen and plot the difference in response in Fig 8 with the diaphragms being 4-5 times larger.

In a ribbon microphone of which 90% are FIG 8 only the distance between the front and rear "diaphragm" is the 2-5 micron width of the ribbon material.

So, in theory the ribbon will be more phase "accurate" in FIG 8

Hence, my interest in hearing the KM86 in FIG 8.

I will post some pictures on Gear Slutz to see the inner workings of a classic microphone and if I can get my plotter software to load into the new laptop with Window 10. Then I will try and run some comparison curves.


I love working on microphone and analogue circuits but my head wants to explode somedays trying to load software and get a simple laptop to run.

In haste, back to the workbench.

Cheers, Dave
aamicrophones.com
Old 21st November 2015
  #1512
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by microphonefolk View Post
Hi Ragan, not sure what you mean by OEM???

Just trying to keep you guys in the loop about what some of the professionals are using in major studios around the world LOL
heh....yes...that's what you're doing on this thread. You're a real microphone philanthropist.



As for the OEM stuff, we hashed that all out already. It was made very clear what mics are what and what people are paying for with the various resellers. Anyone that wants to know about that can just go back a handful of pages.

Now back to the topic of this thread, Advanced Audio microphones.

Wait a minute....
Old 21st November 2015
  #1513
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kidvybes's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by microphonefolk View Post
Hi Ragan, not sure what you mean by OEM???

Just trying to keep you guys in the loop about what some of the professionals are using in major studios around the world LOL!!!


Cheers, Dave
aamicrophones.com
Dave, Ragan was referring to products that are stock "off-the-shelf" (Original Equipment Manufacturer) designs that are re-branded by numerous retailers under different model designations (even those that are mildly modified to attempt to make proprietary designs of them)...

Products like ShuaiYin's SYT-1101, or SYT-6001, or SYT-5...but you already know that...

3U Audio does not sell "OEM" or any "off-the-shelf" stock microphone models, as does Alctron, ShuaiYin, Ningbo TongXin and other Chinese manufacturers...all of the CM-series, Warbler-series and GZ-series microphones are proprietary designs...and 3U Audio does not sell their capsules to the DIY community, as does ShyaiYin and Ningbo TongXin...

Just setting the record straight...and thanks for the history lesson!
Old 21st November 2015
  #1514
MYN
Gear Nut
Dave,
You crazy mad genius. You know that old saying about how "you can't polish a turd"? Well, kudos to you for showing that you can. You are able to take an inferior microphone someone else designed and mass manufactured, identify what could be done better and, gosh darn it, you or your man Scotty get in there with your soldering irons and modify the heck out of that thing until it sounds like something much better than what you started out with. Really, as a mic modder with a decent biz plan, you're aces. You've even written here about how your manufacturing sources are integrating your circuit changes and mods into their stuff. I only hope you're getting a royalty for that, but I probably wouldn't bet you are. Your story, your background, impressive. I even bought one of your microphones. But, unfortunately, to my ears that microphone still sounds sterile and lacks depth. I don't really like it and I never use it. Ironically, I've been thinking about modding it! Maybe taking out some of those ugly mustard blob caps and throwing a couple of Nichicon Muse caps in there to see if I can add more life to it.

And while 3U Audio may share some same metalwork sources for their mic bodies coming from that one square block in China where you say 90 percent of mic bodies come from, I'm of the belief that the comparison ends there. It appears that Guosheng designed his own proprietary mic circuits and capsules and then he builds them in his own factory. Look inside any 3u Audio Warbler or GZ series and you're going to see it's loaded with premium components, Wima caps, Dale resistors, etc. Open up an AA mic and... well, you don't. To me, that feels like a really big difference right there.

Plus, you can't deny that AA mics, are costlier than 3U Audio mics. Perhaps that's just a function of you being the middleman here and having to account for your bench time, import fees, etc. IMO, on a dollar for dollar basis, AA loses this contest, hands down. Because of the way 3U is set up as an all-inclusive system, it's not an even playing field, but then again, neither is life.

Here's the kicker though. Price-schmice--It's all about sound, right? You look at this ridiculously massive thread and all the comments to date and one thing is pretty clear: people are losing their minds over how these 3U Audio mics sound. My mics get used for work every day. I rely on them to make a living and one thing has been clear: the increased number of compliments I've been getting on my sound from my clients ever since I switched to using Warblers as my main mics. In my little world, that's enough empirical evidence to justify what my ears are already telling me. In a world of wanna-be's, 3U Audio mics are the real deal.

I will never profess to ever know as much about mics as you obviously do, or as much as Guosheng does. But I do know one thing: your CM87 doesn't hold a candle to the Warbler I. It's not even close. To my ear, next to the Warbler, the CM87 sounds cheap and thin. Put those two mics side by side (which I have) and you'd never guess your mic is the one that costs $100 more (not counting shipping). I guess you can only polish a turd so much. Going back to your Zappa paraphrase that was sadly deleted by the moderator for being OT, the CM87 is more of a Sears poncho.

Dave, as much as I've been amused by your puzzling screeds in this thread, I've found them educational to a point. Dude, you know so much about microphones but this thing you're doing here and telling us 10 thousand times that a mic of yours is on so and so's album, well, it's starting to get sad. And I think you're better than that. You are probably one of the top 5 mic modders in the world. Guosheng is a mic and capsule designer. We're talking apples and oranges. However, the ultimate difference may be the scalability of his business vs yours.

Sigh.... Perhaps what would be a better use of your down time, instead of trying to OT this thread, is to tap into that massive mic knowledge of yours and design your own proprietary circuits. That I'd love to hear. Or write a book or blog about them. That's something I'd buy/read in a heartbeat. You've been around forever and 3U is obviously an embryonic entity, one that's been selling mics for a fraction of the time you have, but one that is quickly developing a rabid following of early adopters. And as many threads as there are on GS about AA mics, I don't recall reading reactions like the ones we're seeing here, and how telling that is, well, is probably up to one's interpretation.

The fact that Guosheng has used this thread as a user feedback mechanism to improve his offerings in almost real-time is pretty incredible and maybe that's a strategy that could benefit more people in the mic biz. But when it all comes down to brass tacks, there's a "bang for your buck" factor with these amazing sounding 3U Audio mics that gives them an incredible edge... well that and there are no polished turds in the bunch.

Best,
M
Old 21st November 2015
  #1515
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kidvybes's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
...mic drop!




Last edited by kidvybes; 21st November 2015 at 03:06 AM..
Old 21st November 2015
  #1516
Gear Nut
 
3rdstone's Avatar
 

What the hell just happened? And who wants to know?

Jeebus...

Last edited by 3rdstone; 21st November 2015 at 04:34 AM..
Old 21st November 2015
  #1517
We're not in Kansas any more. Are we?
Old 21st November 2015
  #1518
Gear Nut
 

Whoa.....
Old 22nd November 2015
  #1519
Here for the gear
 

FYI Mr. Guosheng told me that I could exchange for a k47 capsule on the GZ67 Tube mic. super interesting.
Old 22nd November 2015
  #1520
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kidvybes's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by guisquil View Post
FYI Mr. Guosheng told me that I could exchange for a k47 capsule on the GZ67 Tube mic. super interesting.
...hmmm, now that does sound interesting...who does that? (crazy good service!)...

Old 22nd November 2015
  #1521
Here for the gear
 

I know, I wish I could hear the GZ67 Tube mics, that is a lot of money for me to spend without trying it out.
Old 22nd November 2015
  #1522
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kidvybes's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by guisquil View Post
I know, I wish I could hear the GZ67 Tube mics, that is a lot of money for me to spend without trying it out.
...Guosheng told me he was having some proper sound files made to demonstrate the GZ67 Tube Mic...he didn't mention it to you?
Old 22nd November 2015
  #1523
Here for the gear
 

No, but this would be very cool!

I like how they did it Compare

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...Guosheng told me he was having some proper sound files made to demonstrate the GZ67 Tube Mic...he didn't mention it to you?
Old 22nd November 2015
  #1524
Lives for gear
 
Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by guisquil View Post
No, but this would be very cool!

I like how they did it Compare
That is a cool way to do it.
Old 22nd November 2015
  #1525
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kidvybes's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by guisquil View Post
No, but this would be very cool!

I like how they did it Compare
...yeah, but with more realistic comparisons...those mics come out of the same OEM factory as Advanced Audio...
Old 22nd November 2015
  #1526
Gear Maniac
 
haysonics's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...yeah, but with more realistic comparisons...those mics come out of the same OEM factory as Advanced Audio...
You are being diplomatic. Gauge has taken a leaf out of Black Lion Audio's book on how to set up dodgy comparisons. Forget the reverb, its when you hear the same capsule distortion on two different mics at the same moment that gives it away. And I don't mean the singer getting loud and overloading all the mics on the same note, I mean the distortion itself sounds identical.
Old 22nd November 2015
  #1527
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haysonics View Post
You are being diplomatic. Gauge has taken a leaf out of Black Lion Audio's book on how to set up dodgy comparisons. Forget the reverb, its when you hear the same capsule distortion on two different mics at the same moment that gives it away. And I don't mean the singer getting loud and overloading all the mics on the same note, I mean the distortion itself sounds identical.
I have definitely heard a BLA comparison or two that I didn't fully believe in, methodology wise.

I didn't even listen to the Gauge clips, I just thought the matrix thing was a good idea.
Old 22nd November 2015
  #1528
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kidvybes's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan View Post
I have definitely heard a BLA comparison or two that I didn't fully believe in, methodology wise.

I didn't even listen to the Gauge clips, I just thought the matrix thing was a good idea.
...that's why I believe that a thread like this is so much more valid, since the sound samples are provided by real musicians/engineers using the mics rather than the manufacturer's own (potentially doctored) promotional soundclips...

...maybe we need a separate thread dedicated to 3U Audio soundclips only, to make it easier for interested parties to hear samples without wading thru a massive thread such as this has turned out to be...

(are we really about to hit the 100K hit mark?)
Old 23rd November 2015
  #1529
Gear Nut
 
3rdstone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...yeah, but with more realistic comparisons...those mics come out of the same OEM factory as Advanced Audio...
Understood. At the same time, I don't think AA mics are that bad with the changes Dave has insisted upon, I just think they're too damn expensive. For a 'inspired by' mic... Plain and simple.
Reading old posts here all day, and I see you sited the ECM47 for it's good value on more than one occasion. Being that Stellar is not currently in operation, I'm pondering trying one of the Gauges, seeing that similar mods, like the ones Dave does, are insisted upon by this company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haysonics View Post
You are being diplomatic. Gauge has taken a leaf out of Black Lion Audio's book on how to set up dodgy comparisons. Forget the reverb, its when you hear the same capsule distortion on two different mics at the same moment that gives it away. And I don't mean the singer getting loud and overloading all the mics on the same note, I mean the distortion itself sounds identical.
Call me crazy Hay, but did you read the conditions under which the clips were recorded? An ART Tube MP? That very well may be the source of the 'identical distortion' that you hear.

Again, with both of my quotes from you guys, I'm just pondering.
My mamma once told me that it doesn't hurt to ask...
BTW there is a difference between all of the clips on the Gauge site, I downloaded and listened to all of them in my DAW...

Last edited by 3rdstone; 23rd November 2015 at 02:38 AM..
Old 23rd November 2015
  #1530
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdstone View Post
Understood. At the same time, I don't think AA mics are that bad with the changes Dave has insisted upon, I just think they're too damn expensive.
...I've never implied Dave's mics are bad at all, they are not...actually the ShuaiYin mics, even in their stock OEM form are quite good...but IMHO, 3U Audio has raised the sonic bar, and at the same time, lowered the price of admission...

...FWIW, I believe that Peter Bloch at Stellar has done the best job of all in modifying the OEM ShuaiYin tube mic offerings with his Stellar CM-6...I urge Peter to continue offering a variant of that design...IMHO, there's nothing like the CM-6 in the sub-$1500 price range for a modern, shiny pop-radio sound...

...that said, I am eager to hear Guosheng's C800g-inspired FET variant...


Last edited by kidvybes; 23rd November 2015 at 05:28 AM..
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