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Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6211
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I finally pulled the trigger on a warbler IVD. It arrived yesterday. It took about 5 days to get from Shanghai to my place in the US via fedex. I put it up as a mono OH to see if it could be the solution to the problems I have with the TF11.

I have backed the TF11 further in front of the kit and that has helped smooth out the top end. I put the Warbler in the exact same spot. Actually, in the same shockmount on the same stand. I kept the warbler in cardioid since the TF11 is fixed cardioid. I literally just switched mics and kept all settings the same on the chain and in the DAW. I wasn't looking to shoot the mics out in a scientific fashion. I just wanted to hear how the warbler captured my kit in my room compared to the TF11 with the same settings.

The warbler is smoother in V1 than the TF11, but somewhat similar in the top. The V1 setting is pretty good, but I think I prefer the TF11 for it's sense of dimension. The warbler doesn't have the same depth and clarity as the TF11, but it still has a nice dimension to it. That's ok since it's half the price. I think the warbler's depth and dimension is better than the vanguard V4. I decided to put the warbler into V2 to tame the high end a bit more. If that is a success and maintains the same depth & dimension, the tf11 may go out the door.

So, I flicked the switch to V2, recorded a take, and listened back. I'm not gonna lie. I was pretty disappointed. The warbler lost a lot of headroom in V2. I was a bit confused because nothing had changed anywhere else. The mic in V2 was getting blown out on a crash cymbal, where it was absolutely fine in V1. I engaged the pad and that seemed to fix things, but the mic wasn't as dimensional as V1.

All in all the Warbler IV is a good mic, but the voicings didn't meet my expectations, which means it didn't really meet the objective. I might prefer to fight the TF11's high end with mic placement and lpf on an eq if needed to keep the depth and definition that mic captures. But, it's also twice as expensive as the warbler. If I didn't have the TF11, or that budget, I think the warbler would be a winner. I'll be curious how they both compare to a b-uls.

Last edited by Ox Han; 2 weeks ago at 07:41 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #6212
Gear Addict
 
Rocket88's Avatar
Sounds like a defect. You shouldn't lose any headroom between those two voices. Did you try voice 3 to see if it was more of the same? I would email G. If it is a flaw he'll get you sorted.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han ➡️
I finally pulled the trigger on a warbler IVD. It arrived yesterday. It took about 5 days to get from Shanghai to my place in the US via fedex. I put it up as a mono OH to see if it could be the solution to the problems I have with the TF11.

I have backed the TF11 further in front of the kit and that has helped smooth out the top end. I put the Warbler in the exact same spot. Actually, in the same shockmount on the same stand. I kept the warbler in cardioid since the TF11 is fixed cardioid. I literally just switched mics and kept all settings the same on the chain and in the DAW. I wasn't looking to shoot the mics out in a scientific fashion. I just wanted to hear how the warbler captured my kit in my room compared to the TF11 with the same settings.

The warbler is smoother in V1 than the TF11, but somewhat similar in the top. The V1 setting is pretty good, but I think I prefer the TF11 for it's sense of dimension. The warbler doesn't have the same depth and clarity as the TF11, but it still has a nice dimension to it. That's ok since it's half the price. I think the warbler's depth and dimension is better than the vanguard V4. I decided to put the warbler into V2 to tame the high end a bit more. If that is a success and maintains the same depth & dimension, the tf11 may go out the door.

So, I flicked the switch to V2, recorded a take, and listened back. I'm not gonna lie. I was pretty disappointed. The warbler lost a lot of headroom in V2. I was a bit confused because nothing had changed anywhere else. The mic in V2 was getting blown out on a crash cymbal, where it was absolutely fine in V1. I engaged the pad and that seemed to fix things, but the mic wasn't as dimensional as V1.

All in all the Warbler IV is a good mic, but the voicings didn't meet my expectations, which means it didn't really meet the objective. I might prefer to fight the TF11's high end with mic placement and lpf on an eq if needed to keep the depth and definition that mic captures. But, it's also twice as expensive as the warbler. If I didn't have the TF11, or that budget, I think the warbler would be a winner. I'll be curious how they both compare to a b-uls.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #6213
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket88 ➡️
Sounds like a defect. You shouldn't lose any headroom between those two voices. Did you try voice 3 to see if it was more of the same? I would email G. If it is a flaw he'll get you sorted.
I’ll reach out with an email. Thanks.

...and that shipping speed during a pandemic? I was pretty surprised when it showed up so fast.
Just had to throw another shout out
Old 1 week ago
  #6214
Gear Maniac
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I've tried a few of the cheaper 3U mics, the teal CM1, the black CM1, and one of the Warblers (can't recall which one as I no longer own it, but I think it was the U87 type). I have some pretty nice mics (Blue, Gefell, East German Neumann, Advanced Audio CM251 etc) and the black CM1 wasn't getting used that much until I tried it outside a kick drum (I also mic the inside with a dynamic).

I love this mic in this application -- I was going to buy a more expensive U47 FET copy for outside kick duty but no longer feel the need as I'm getting huge amount of low end out of my 20" vintage Ludwig kick now. I also tried using the Teal version outside kick but it was not as deep sounding. I think the black CM1 would work great for toms as well -- it's a pretty versatile mic with the pads and HP filter choices. Now looking at getting one of the GZ67s as the sound samples I've heard for that mic sound excellent.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #6215
Lives for gear
 
BrentA's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han ➡️
I finally pulled the trigger on a warbler IVD. It arrived yesterday. It took about 5 days to get from Shanghai to my place in the US via fedex. I put it up as a mono OH to see if it could be the solution to the problems I have with the TF11.

I have backed the TF11 further in front of the kit and that has helped smooth out the top end. I put the Warbler in the exact same spot. Actually, in the same shockmount on the same stand. I kept the warbler in cardioid since the TF11 is fixed cardioid. I literally just switched mics and kept all settings the same on the chain and in the DAW. I wasn't looking to shoot the mics out in a scientific fashion. I just wanted to hear how the warbler captured my kit in my room compared to the TF11 with the same settings.

The warbler is smoother in V1 than the TF11, but somewhat similar in the top. The V1 setting is pretty good, but I think I prefer the TF11 for it's sense of dimension. The warbler doesn't have the same depth and clarity as the TF11, but it still has a nice dimension to it. That's ok since it's half the price. I think the warbler's depth and dimension is better than the vanguard V4. I decided to put the warbler into V2 to tame the high end a bit more. If that is a success and maintains the same depth & dimension, the tf11 may go out the door.

So, I flicked the switch to V2, recorded a take, and listened back. I'm not gonna lie. I was pretty disappointed. The warbler lost a lot of headroom in V2. I was a bit confused because nothing had changed anywhere else. The mic in V2 was getting blown out on a crash cymbal, where it was absolutely fine in V1. I engaged the pad and that seemed to fix things, but the mic wasn't as dimensional as V1.

All in all the Warbler IV is a good mic, but the voicings didn't meet my expectations, which means it didn't really meet the objective. I might prefer to fight the TF11's high end with mic placement and lpf on an eq if needed to keep the depth and definition that mic captures. But, it's also twice as expensive as the warbler. If I didn't have the TF11, or that budget, I think the warbler would be a winner. I'll be curious how they both compare to a b-uls.
The GZ12 might be a more fair comparison to the Telefunken, while still being less expensive. The few clips I’ve heard of it sounded great. It has the better AMI transformer in it with the C12 voiced capsule. Guosheng would probably let you exchange the Warbler for one to try it out.

I’ve been itching to get a pair of the GZ12s for years, and maybe eventually put some Tim Campbell capsules in them. I wonder how close they would sound to 414EBs, which are my favorite overhead mics ever.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #6216
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentA ➡️
The GZ12 might be a more fair comparison to the Telefunken, while still being less expensive. The few clips I’ve heard of it sounded great. It has the better AMI transformer in it with the C12 voiced capsule. Guosheng would probably let you exchange the Warbler for one to try it out.

I’ve been itching to get a pair of the GZ12s for years, and maybe eventually put some Tim Campbell capsules in them. I wonder how close they would sound to 414EBs, which are my favorite overhead mics ever.
I want something less bright than the TF11. Not sure if I communicated that clearly or not. I didn't know he made a GZ12 and that is interesting, but probably pretty bright.

That said, I may just buy a CT12 and drop in the warbler IV and pay someone to do the capsule swap. I also thought about doing the same thing to the TF11 haha. Perhaps I should try the warbler V since it is less bright but uses what I assume is the same edge terminated capsule as the IV.

I will also reiterate in V1 setting, the warbler IV is nice and less bright than the TF11, or sonically warmer, in the top end. It doesn't quite have the same depth and dimension as the TF11, but I think it fairly easily beats out the Vanguard mic I had in terms of dimension and depth/clarity. I will do one last comparison with the warbler IV and the TF11 both recording the same take from the same position.

Thanks
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #6217
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han ➡️
I want something less bright than the TF11. Not sure if I communicated that clearly or not. I didn't know he made a GZ12 and that is interesting, but probably pretty bright.

That said, I may just buy a CT12 and drop in the warbler IV and pay someone to do the capsule swap. I also thought about doing the same thing to the TF11 haha. Perhaps I should try the warbler V since it is less bright but uses what I assume is the same edge terminated capsule as the IV.

I will also reiterate in V1 setting, the warbler IV is nice and less bright than the TF11, or sonically warmer, in the top end. It doesn't quite have the same depth and dimension as the TF11, but I think it fairly easily beats out the Vanguard mic I had in terms of dimension and depth/clarity. I will do one last comparison with the warbler IV and the TF11 both recording the same take from the same position.

Thanks
I am gravitating right along you sound... and ears... one...two...three...IV rlol...
Old 1 week ago
  #6218
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han ➡️
I finally pulled the trigger on a warbler IVD. It arrived yesterday. It took about 5 days to get from Shanghai to my place in the US via fedex. I put it up as a mono OH to see if it could be the solution to the problems I have with the TF11.

I have backed the TF11 further in front of the kit and that has helped smooth out the top end. I put the Warbler in the exact same spot. Actually, in the same shockmount on the same stand. I kept the warbler in cardioid since the TF11 is fixed cardioid. I literally just switched mics and kept all settings the same on the chain and in the DAW. I wasn't looking to shoot the mics out in a scientific fashion. I just wanted to hear how the warbler captured my kit in my room compared to the TF11 with the same settings.

The warbler is smoother in V1 than the TF11, but somewhat similar in the top. The V1 setting is pretty good, but I think I prefer the TF11 for it's sense of dimension. The warbler doesn't have the same depth and clarity as the TF11, but it still has a nice dimension to it. That's ok since it's half the price. I think the warbler's depth and dimension is better than the vanguard V4. I decided to put the warbler into V2 to tame the high end a bit more. If that is a success and maintains the same depth & dimension, the tf11 may go out the door.

So, I flicked the switch to V2, recorded a take, and listened back. I'm not gonna lie. I was pretty disappointed. The warbler lost a lot of headroom in V2. I was a bit confused because nothing had changed anywhere else. The mic in V2 was getting blown out on a crash cymbal, where it was absolutely fine in V1. I engaged the pad and that seemed to fix things, but the mic wasn't as dimensional as V1.

All in all the Warbler IV is a good mic, but the voicings didn't meet my expectations, which means it didn't really meet the objective. I might prefer to fight the TF11's high end with mic placement and lpf on an eq if needed to keep the depth and definition that mic captures. But, it's also twice as expensive as the warbler. If I didn't have the TF11, or that budget, I think the warbler would be a winner. I'll be curious how they both compare to a b-uls.
I’d be curious how a gz251 fet would compare against the tf-11. Basically 3u’s premium version of the warbler IV (multi-pattern instead of multiple voicings, though). At this point, it’s not as much of a deal, but still $300 less than the tf-11.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #6219
Gear Head
My MKIV arrived today. So far I'm pleased. In V1 it has a nice smooth sparkle over 4kHz and will surely be good for recording singing, at least for some voices. I'd be delighted if it worked for mine, but I need to do more work to be sure.

In V2 it's definitely good for spoken word.

The only thing that doesn't immediately please is the fierce HPF/demudding thing the built-in HPF does. I guess it's designed for very close-miked singing, which lots of people do.

But if all I have to do eq-wise to get a result I like from myself and friends is to apply my own HPF - I'll be happy! Let the experiments begin....

Gavin

PS - I spoke too soon about the HPF. It's essential!
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #6220
Gear Head
Julie has a new favourite mic...



Julie Atkin sings On the Sunny Side of the Street, which was composed in 1930 by Jimmy McHugh, with lyrics by Dorothy Fields. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the..._of_the_Street

Julie is accompanied by my 1912 Jeffries duet concertina.

Her mic is a 3U Audio Warbler MkIV in voicing 1, with the mic's HPF on. No other eq was used. Her previous favourite was an sE 4400a.

(The concertina was miced with two AT4040s, again with HPF on, eqd to reduce the mics' 6-7kHz spike.)

Gavin

Last edited by gmatkin; 3 days ago at 08:18 PM.. Reason: To make the YouTube link appear properly.
Old 3 days ago
  #6221
Lives for gear
 
David Rick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Fine singing there! I enjoyed it a lot. Does anyone else hear some strange intermodulation between the singer and concertina on certain notes?
Old 3 days ago
  #6222
Gear Guru
 
And who's that "Rocky fella'" guy?
The boxer?

Chris
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #6223
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick ➡️
Fine singing there! I enjoyed it a lot. Does anyone else hear some strange intermodulation between the singer and concertina on certain notes?
Glad you like it!

I didn't apply any eq across the recording... So I guess if there's intermodulation going on due to some nonlinearity, it'll likely have crept in when I ran it through a gentle hard limiter - or it's a YouTube artefact.

Or what I learned all those years ago wasn't true! It wouldn't be tge first time...

Btw, concertinas sound pretty nonlinear to me...

G
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #6224
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
And who's that "Rocky fella'" guy?
The boxer?

Chris
Rockefeller, I think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller

G
Old 2 days ago
  #6225
Gear Guru
 
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #6226
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
That was a treat.
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