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Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings
Old 3rd January 2021
  #6151
Lives for gear
 
Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
A good friend of mine recently got a MKII to record his upright bass with and he absolutely loves it. He also has a DPA that he clips on, but I think he prefers the Warbler, despite the huge price difference!

According to SOS, though, the UTFET47 is just about sonically indistinguishable from the Neumann. I think that says a lot. I know Chessparov likes them, as well.
Old 3rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #6152
Lives for gear
 
tkaitkai's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-pangdrums ➡️
I bought a matched pair of the Warbler MKVID a couple of years back, great mics. Has mostly been used on drum OH, drum Room and vocals. Pretty much almost in voicing 2.
Im now on the hunt for a new FOK mic, have been using a RED type B but I'm now looking for something with more heft and a more solid low end, FET47 territory.

Anybody here use the Warbler mkII or GZ47fet(V) in this position? The United UT Fet47 also looks interesting...
I had the UT FET47 for a month or so and it is an absolutely outstanding mic for $800.

Nails the 47 vibe and stood its own against a much pricier M149. Highly recommended.
Old 3rd January 2021
  #6153
Gear Guru
 
IMHO a pair of multi-pattern Warblers, and then (or later on) a mic like that... Is a great way to grow a Project Studio.
Chris
Old 4th January 2021 | Show parent
  #6154
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-pangdrums ➡️
Im now on the hunt for a new FOK mic..
I’ve been using the MKID on front of kick and I’ve really liked it in that application. 5-10” from the head and slightly at an angle downwards. Been getting great kick sounds with just that single mic. The drum and the player of course are responsible for the sound in the first place, but the MKID has been great at capturing it.

I don’t have other MKs so I haven’t been able to compare. Besides, I’ve been so happy with the sound that I’ve just thrown that mic in automatically when tracking drums.
Old 4th January 2021 | Show parent
  #6155
Lives for gear
 
Ragan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowerbackproblems ➡️
I’ve been using the MKID on front of kick and I’ve really liked it in that application. 5-10” from the head and slightly at an angle downwards. Been getting great kick sounds with just that single mic. The drum and the player of course are responsible for the sound in the first place, but the MKID has been great at capturing it.

I don’t have other MKs so I haven’t been able to compare. Besides, I’ve been so happy with the sound that I’ve just thrown that mic in automatically when tracking drums.
I’ve used mine in that spot/application with great results too.
Old 13th January 2021
  #6156
Lives for gear
 
Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Well, Santa was very kind to me this Christmas, and my wee studio finally got a Neumann u87ai. Despite the bashing this mic gets on GS with surprising frequency, it's actually my very favorite mic of all. I still love my Warbler MKID, however, so I thought I'd shoot the two out on my tenor saxophone! I made a backing track arrangement from one of my favorite John Coltrane tunes and recorded the same take with both mics, capsules as close together as possible. For me, the Neumann wins, unsurprisingly... but the 3U holds up incredibly well, particularly considering it's a tenth of the price. Of course, the Warbler is modeled after the vintage (pre-AI) u87, so it has a good bit less top-end and some more grainy saturation, I think. It still sounds lovely and I'll certainly be hanging onto it for when a more vintage vibe is needed.

Here's a playlist with isolated dry stems as well as full mixes featuring each mic. In the mixes, I put some reverb, delay, and light compression/saturation (via the NEOLD V76U73, which I love!) on the saxophone tracks. No EQ except for some 80hz rolloff via the NEOLD.

https://soundcloud.com/brian-donohoe...ai-vs-3u-audio
Old 13th January 2021
  #6157
Gear Guru
 
Sounds great. I also agree on the U87ai/Warbler sound comparison. I love my Oktava 319, in the same sorta way.

But the 319 IMHO is still more of a "Character Mic",
compared to U87ai/Warbler.
Chris
Old 13th January 2021
  #6158
Lives for gear
 
Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks, Chris! And yes, while the Warbler might have more "vintage character" than the u87 (which still has plenty of mojo despite its clarity and detail, somehow... I love this mic...), it's still pretty universally applicable. In the last couple months I've used both the Warbler and the Neumann to record saxophone, flute, vocals, and percussion, and they both get very useable results.
Old 13th January 2021
  #6159
Gear Guru
 
Sure thing!
Now we gotta geek out on Pre's!!

(Useful Arts Hornet on my late 2021 Radar we'll see)
Chris
Old 2nd February 2021 | Show parent
  #6160
Gear Nut
 
mattrico's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dohreetoh ➡️
I think it's sold separately similar to the M7 capsule. Either way Guosheng does sell capsules if you message him, including the Warbler ones. The M7 is only marginally more expensive than the dual diaphragm Warbler capsules. I was told it was $180 USD plus shipping.
Have you had a chance to try this capsule out?
I'm looking at getting a T.bone SCT-2000 (Alctron GT-2B) and putting one of his capsules in it, but can't decide between a standard K47, a darker K47 (which he says is in the GZ47FET V) and the M7 (which he says is somewhere in the middle of those 2 in terms of sound). There's not much around talking about his M7 capsule so it's a bit of an unknown beast at this stage.
Old 13th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6161
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Thoughts on Warbler MKI vs MKVI for a low male voice with lots of fundamental around the 100-220 range that needs the help with presence up top? I.e., I never need to boost low mids or add fullness to my vocals. I prefer a U87 type sound in general but I’ve been told voices that sound too warm/wooly on other mics can benefit from a bright mic in the style of a C800.

(I’ve been avoiding new condensers for a while because I didn’t have a good room for them, and I’ve been getting by with a SM7B but it overemphasizes the low mids in a way that I’m always fighting/cutting in the mix. I finally got some GIK 244s to use as gobos and they definitely improve the sound on my DIY modded RK47 LDC.)

Last edited by ziggysane; 13th February 2021 at 08:20 AM..
Old 13th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6162
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggysane ➡️
Thoughts on Warbler MKI vs MKVI for a low male voice with lots of fundamental around the 100-220 range that needs the help with presence up top? I.e., I never need to boost low mids or add fullness to my vocals. I prefer a U87 type sound in general but I’ve been told voices that sound too warm/wooly on other mics can benefit from a bright mic in the style of a C800.

(I’ve been avoiding new condensers for a while because I didn’t have a good room for them, and I’ve been getting by with a SM7B but it overemphasizes the low mids in a way that I’m always fighting/cutting in the mix. I finally got some GIK 244s to use as gobos and they definitely improve the sound on my DIY modded RK47 LDC.)
Basically, every male voice has its fundamentals in the 100-220 range. Yes, some a bit lower than others. Personally, I wouldn't call that low-mid BTW, but let's not get into semantics.

The SM7B can do cardioid pattern only which will create ample proximity effect, especially when used fairly close (EV RE-20 has a special design to minimize this.)
Multipattern Warblers can do omni. This alone should help.
And condensers sound cleaner and more open up top as a given.

BTW and FWIW, typical "muddiness" sits somewhat higher than 100-200Hz.
Old 13th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6163
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato ➡️
Basically, every male voice has its fundamentals in the 100-220 range. Yes, some a bit lower than others. Personally, I wouldn't call that low-mid BTW, but let's not get into semantics.

The SM7B can do cardioid pattern only which will create ample proximity effect, especially when used fairly close (EV RE-20 has a special design to minimize this.)
Multipattern Warblers can do omni. This alone should help.
And condensers sound cleaner and more open up top as a given.

BTW and FWIW, typical "muddiness" sits somewhat higher than 100-200Hz.
Thank you for the thoughts. I have considered/tried some of the above in the past, including the RE20 and lots of experimenting with mic placement with the SM7. I’ve never had a proper Omni-pattern mic or the room to really get the most out of one (until recently, which was part of the reason I’m looking at the Warblers).

Rephrasing the above, is there a Warbler that’s particularly complimentary to a low, thick, darker bass baritone voice? In the sense that it gives a lift to the presence range in a way that sits nicely in a sparse arrangement, and without emphasizing the lows in a way that you would want on a thinner voice. I can use EQ to do the same things but I would rather have a mic that’s a better match at the source and avoid the artifacts of EQ.
Old 13th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6164
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
There's always a danger of over-compensating. I'm a bass baritone myself and I've had my share of frustrating experiences with sound engineers who played the counterweight game and ended up killing all the richness in my voice. This is one of the reasons I picked up sound engineering myself.

You talk about sparse arrangements. Then there's less chance of instruments competing for particular frequency bands (albeit still possible). So possibly the only reason for cleaning up lies in the voice itself. If it really is too muddy, subtly take care of it, but again, don't overdo it.

As always, the proof is in the pudding, so there are no guarantees upfront. But for sparse arrangements I'd pick one with an edge terminated capsule. Likely the IV. Yes, it has a big bottom. Potentially that is. But if it must capture something big then it better be up for the task. And big does not equal muddy, if that makes sense. Also, positioning the mic, choosing the polar pattern etc. will all help shaping the sound, even before (electronically) EQ-ing.

Last edited by legato; 13th February 2021 at 10:41 PM..
Old 14th February 2021
  #6165
Gear Guru
 
For pocket change, IMHO a cool vocal mic for a thicker voice (well really any voice)... Is the AKG P120 (black)
I certainly don't have the resonance of a true Bass-Baritone (let alone a Thurl Ravenscroft!).

The P120 has a very "flat-ish" reponse, and a 12 KHz "air bump" boost.
But... below is a clip of me-'umble Lyric Baritone on it with full voice.
(Versus my usual High Bari/2nd Tenor register)

Also I don't mean this as a Warbler replacement, just a supplement.
Based on clips, I'd also add a MKII or MKI for the Baritone (or Bass) voice for versatility.
Chris
P.S. I'm re-training my speaking voice for VO, to be a little lower in median pitch, where this key is.
So a pretty honest mic, like the P120, is helpful for practicing/diagnosis.
Attached Files

Song 73ImgonnaloveyouP120.mp3 (482.8 KB, 1312 views)

Old 14th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6166
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
I have listened to many 3U Warbler clips (never owned one yet) I like the sound of the I & IV.
Old 14th February 2021
  #6167
Gear Guru
 
I haven't heard too many IV's... yet.
Chris
Old 14th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6168
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
I haven't heard too many IV's... yet.
Chris
same but different type thing - as I. Tough choice for me....
Old 14th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6169
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
For pocket change, IMHO a cool vocal mic for a thicker voice (well really any voice)... Is the AKG P120 (black)
I certainly don't have the resonance of a true Bass-Baritone (let alone a Thurl Ravenscroft!).
Few do! I’m only 5’5 and while the fullest part of my range overlaps with Mr. Ravencroft’s money notes, I don’t have that insane resonance that comes from a true Basso Profundo and/or a larger frame. My range is similar to Johnny Cash minus the lowest couple of notes in “Walk The Line”, with my chest voice topping out at middle C unless I’m really pushing it.
Old 14th February 2021
  #6170
Gear Guru
 
My Vocal Master, Dr. Pelayo had it. True Bass and Dramatic Baritone too. Over 3 Legit Octave in full voice-very very rare. (despite 4+ Octave claims/Pop singers
Supposedly the great VO Artist, Paul Frees... Had a similar range.
Chris
Old 17th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6171
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Weissklang V13 with Klangformer software would be my suggestion.

I own one and it is a Flat response made in Germany mic that is very affordable and works amazingly well.

The Klangformer software VST is seemless and allows you to choose from ribbon, tube, modern, and vintage microphone responses......really works!

Even using the mic on its own produces great results!



https://www.world.weissklang.com/v13?lang=en
Old 17th February 2021
  #6172
Lives for gear
 
Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
@ 67mike – Those WK mics look interesting, it seems insane that they can be so affordable and made totally in Germany. Do you happen to know who's making their capsules? A good capsule alone should cost as one of those mics, I would think, or nearly so.
Old 18th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6173
Gear Addict
 
dariva's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
3U vs Warm Audio Mics

I'll bring this subject back up, now that Warm have released their U67 clone and we more or less know that they get their capsules from Guosheng.

Has anyone compared the 251, the U47 or the U67 models of the two companies lately? I think the 3U tube models are a bit rare....But even still, even a comparison between the fet and the tube counterparts might give some general idea of the companies' box tone, so to speak.

I just watched this shoot out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdArigNZ5wo between the Warm 67s and a Neuman, and honestly, the sound of both mics didn't quite grab me the same way my 3U GZ251 does. Wondering if it's the design that I prefer, the make...or youtube just proves not to be a credible way to make judgement on mics once again.
Old 19th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6174
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato ➡️
There's always a danger of over-compensating. I'm a bass baritone myself and I've had my share of frustrating experiences with sound engineers who played the counterweight game and ended up killing all the richness in my voice. This is one of the reasons I picked up sound engineering myself.

You talk about sparse arrangements. Then there's less chance of instruments competing for particular frequency bands (albeit still possible). So possibly the only reason for cleaning up lies in the voice itself. If it really is too muddy, subtly take care of it, but again, don't overdo it.

As always, the proof is in the pudding, so there are no guarantees upfront. But for sparse arrangements I'd pick one with an edge terminated capsule. Likely the IV. Yes, it has a big bottom. Potentially that is. But if it must capture something big then it better be up for the task. And big does not equal muddy, if that makes sense. Also, positioning the mic, choosing the polar pattern etc. will all help shaping the sound, even before (electronically) EQ-ing.
I went back and started listening to the clips from the beginning of the thread, and it sounds like the IV is indeed the “Goldilocks” of the C12 inspired line, not quite as hyped up top as III, but not as warm as V either. I think a mic with an Omni option is going to be key for when I need to get up close without the proximity effect.

Re the competing frequencies, my other main instrument is piano, and there’s always overlap with the key vocal tones.
Old 24th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6175
Here for the gear
 
Hey all,

Just wanted to share my initial thoughts as my Warbler MkII arrived yesterday! I am very impressed considering my previous microphone was a simple AKG Perception 120 that I’ve used in my home studio for almost a decade. I produce a lot of alt/indie rock but I mainly use my mic for acoustic and vocals. I wanted something with a lower noise floor and a warmer/smoother top end. I don’t have the clips exported to post (yet) but anyone considering this mic, please go ahead! When I first plugged it in, I thought wait is this thing on? I realized then how noisy the AKG had been and comparing the two is night and day! The AKG has that upper-mid bump that just sounds so harsh on acoustics. The Warbler MkII really brought out the low end of the Martin while keeping the top end nice and smooth. When I compared the two it was almost as if the AKG made my guitar sound like a toy guitar (it’s a Martin GPCPA4R, a $1500 rosewood model). Amazing. Finally I tried adding back a little top end with a neve plugin and some light 1176 compression- this mic allows for such a clean capture and handles processing so nice! It actually brought more out of the sound, as opposed to the P120 which always seemed to make the sound harsher requiring more.

I’m still playing around with the multiple positions but 1 seems to be the most balanced. 2 has a slightly darker tone and I think 3 has even more top end than 1?

The only slight criticism I could offer would be about the shockmount. The tightening mechanism works but I don’t like that I can still move the shockmount a tad after tightening it. Is this normal with other pro quality shockmounts? I really don’t have that much experience with other shockmounts.

All in all, I think at the $299 I paid direct, this is absolutely worth it! (Probably as others have said could compare with mics twice the price!)
Old 24th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6176
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years


Thanks for the review. The II seems to be somewhat of a minority choice in the Warbler range. But a 47-style capsule can be very nice indeed. It certainly deserves (more?) attention here.
Old 25th February 2021
  #6177
Gear Guru
 
It's the best style capsule, of the Neumann-ish/affordable various manufactureed versions out there (on me).

BTW I'm guessing you had the original "Blue" P120.
It has 3db more self noise/A Weighted, versus the later Black P120.

Anyway, if I was going Warbler, most likely the MKII would be the ticket, slightly over the MKI.

For Hard Rock male vocals ala AC/DC, generally my $$ would be on the MKII. They actually used the 47FET, on their Bon Scott lead vocal period!
Chris
Old 25th February 2021 | Show parent
  #6178
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
It's the best style capsule, of the Neumann-ish/affordable various manufactureed versions out there (on me).

BTW I'm guessing you had the original "Blue" P120.
It has 3db more self noise/A Weighted, versus the later Black P120.

Anyway, if I was going Warbler, most likely the MKII would be the ticket, slightly over the MKI.

For Hard Rock male vocals ala AC/DC, generally my $$ would be on the MKII. They actually used the 47FET, on their Bon Scott lead vocal period!
Chris
You are correct, the p120 blue. After trying the Warbler, I just can’t believe the difference. Did some additional listening today, the a/b on the same acoustic, the same mic setup/distance, is just night and day. The warbler gives me to my ear that acoustic sound I’ve been hearing and never have been able to get with my mic.
Old 25th February 2021
  #6179
Gear Guru
 
If you close mic it, the Blue P120, might be cool for occasional BGV's. I also have an AKG 200, which is a nice VO mic. Too bright for my bright voice, for singing.

Any of the 3U mics, ought to slay the 200, for general musical use, in any event.
Chris
Old 7th March 2021 | Show parent
  #6180
Gear Head
I've got a pair of CM-1 Blacks (old type) and a pair of CM-1 Teals (new type).

They work pretty well for me, I feel.

But I wonder sometimes, is there one Warbler that I really need and which would somehow plug fill a gap in my armoury?

Or, given that I rarely use anything but cardioid patterns, can I get most of what they offer using the CM-1s and a bit of judicious eq?

Gavin
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