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Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings Condenser Microphones
Old 25th April 2015
  #31
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Interesting update this morning from the designer of these mics...this "Warbler" series will be expanded to 5 models:
Warbler I (U87 with K67 and 9.5:1 dual-bobbin tranny)
Warbler II (FET 47 with K47 capsule and 6.5:1 dual-bobbin tranny)
Warbler III, IV, & V (C12 variants from C12 thru 251 tonal range, with edge-terminated C12 capsules and 12:1 dual bobbin tranny)

All mics offer 3 voicing settings, that essentially attenuate top-end frequencies...all feature Dale capacitors, WIMA resistors, Fairchild FETs and custom-wound transformers...capsules are produced in-house, no OEM...

Clearly, this AE is looking to make waves in the low-end ranks of the mic marketplace...judging how good his $99 CM-1 with C12 capsule sounds, I'm anxious to hear his 3 upgraded Warbler C12-based variants...

His C12 capsule looks like:
Attached Thumbnails
Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-c12-1920.jpg  
Old 26th April 2015
  #32
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Out of curiosity, has anyone tried the GZ74 from them?
Old 26th April 2015
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
Out of curiosity, has anyone tried the GZ74 from them?
...unfortunately, these are so new, I don't think there's much product in the field yet...I only took a chance on a few of the other 3U mics based on the build quality in the pics and descriptions, and the previous history of the designer/proprietor...


3U GZ74 pair ($249):
Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings3U Audio GZ74 Matched Pair Condenser Microphones Guitar Drum Overhead Pro Mic | eBay
Attached Thumbnails
Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-_57.jpg  
Old 26th April 2015
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...but the big surprise are the cheap (2 for $199 shipped) CM-1 FET condenser mics...these things sound surprisingly good (again reminiscent of KEL Audio)...the teal-bodied has a very nice edge-terminated C12-style capsule...both have nice quality components on the audio output segment of the circuit (WIMAs)...and shock-absorbing Capsule mounting supports...the capsule sounds big and smooth, with no signs of a hyped top-end (to the contrary!)...not what I'd expect from the typical edge-terminated capsule, but really nice!...almost, dare I say, "ribbon-like" smoothness... straying away from the typical Chinese hyped top-end characteristic...
I picked up a Teal CM-1 from 3U Audio's office yesterday and am impressed. The sound is exactly as kidyvbes has described.

I shot it out against my Stellar Sounds CM-5 and you can hear the results below. The audio was recorded via neutral sounding preamps (5534 opamp ICs coupled to a decent circuit) at 16/44.1 and then converted to 320kbs MP3. The files have not been gain matched so you will need to add about 1.5dB to the Teal CM-1 in your DAW so you can hear them at the same volume. Enjoy !
Attached Files

Stellar Sounds CM-5.mp3 (5.26 MB, 10216 views)

3U Audio Teal Cm-1.mp3 (5.26 MB, 10215 views)

Old 26th April 2015
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haysonics View Post
I picked up a Teal CM-1 from 3U Audio's office yesterday and am impressed. The sound is exactly as kidyvbes has described.

I shot it out against my Stellar Sounds CM-5 and you can hear the results below. The audio was recorded via neutral sounding preamps (5532 opamp ICs coupled to a decent circuit) at 16/44.1 and then converted to 320kbs MP3. The files have not been gain matched so you will need to add about 1.5dB to the Teal CM-1 in your DAW so you can hear them at the same volume. Enjoy !
Wow, that was fast...I'm glad you're hearing what I heard...and since you've posted speaking sample files (and until I can get some proper vocalists to demo these mics) here's my spoken voice comparison of the 3U Warbler I (K67 capsule and 9.5:1 U87-style transformer) and the 3U CM-1 (Teal with edge-terminated C12 capsule)...both mics were tracked thru a Great River ME-1NV pre on clean setting, same gain level with no processing:

https://app.box.com/s/udyh8dvcnkiz0891j39nlqyxlyxkhh2i

Last edited by kidvybes; 26th April 2015 at 03:05 PM..
Old 26th April 2015
  #36
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Thank you for this Kidvybes!

I'm looking for a pair of LDC's drum OH to bring around for live shows (with the natural tone of a U89 or tlm193).. What I don't like about most ldc's (even in other price ranges) is that non-natural "ping" on cymbals..

Which model would you suggest for this application? Cm1 fet ?
so there's a difference between the blue and the black ones?
Which one is the less "hyped" on top?

Prices appear to be higher already.. not a big deal..but still.. doubled..

Thank you very much!



Cheu

Last edited by cheu78; 26th April 2015 at 08:14 AM.. Reason: price update :/
Old 26th April 2015
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
Thank you for this Kidvybes!

I'm looking for a pair of LDC's drum OH to bring around for live shows (with the natural tone of a U89 or tlm193).. What I don't like about most ldc's (even in other price ranges) is that non-natural "ping" on cymbals..

Which model would you suggest for this application? Cm1 fet ?
so there's a difference between the blue and the black ones?
Which one is the less "hyped" on top?Cheu
...the Black CM-1 has a K67-style capsule, so it sounds more like my voice sample of the Warbler I, voicing #1 , (maybe just a drop less refined)...the Teal CM-1 has the C12-type capsule, so it has much bigger low-mids and a touch more air on top...neither really sounds "hyped" on top, but I was having this very same conversation with another AE, and we agreed that the Teal CM-1 would be very nice overheads, possibly more "ribbon-like" in handling cymbals...also very nice on acoustic guitars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
Prices appear to be higher already.. not a big deal..but still.. doubled..

Thank you very much!



Cheu
...if you're referring to the prices on the website, those are MSRP...the prices you see on the eBay auctions are closer to "street" prices...
LINK: Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicingshandicraft2014 | eBay
Old 26th April 2015
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...the Black CM-1 has a K67-style capsule, so it sounds more like my voice sample of the Warbler I, voicing #1 , (maybe just a drop less refined)...the Teal CM-1 has the C12-type capsule, so it has much bigger low-mids and a touch more air on top...neither really sounds "hyped" on top, but I was having this very same conversation with another AE, and we agreed that the Teal CM-1 would be very nice overheads, possibly more "ribbon-like" in handling cymbals...also very nice on acoustic guitars...



...if you're referring to the prices on the website, those are MSRP...the prices you see on the eBay auctions are closer to "street" prices...
LINK: Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicingshandicraft2014 | eBay
Thanks!
So the price for the cm1 teal fet pair is 199$..
Might just pull the trigger and try them out.. I wonder if it's possible to have a black body instead..might be better for live usage.. (although I really like that light colour).

How do these compare to let's say the Violet Design Black Kight?
how hot is the output?



Cheu
Old 26th April 2015
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
Thanks!
So the price for the cm1 teal fet pair is 199$..
Might just pull the trigger and try them out.. I wonder if it's possible to have a black body instead..might be better for live usage.. (although I really like that light colour).
...Yes, $199 would be the price for the pair, assuming no one else bids (and there is no such activity yet since few know about these mics)...

...I think the Teal would actually be very nice for live use on stage...but if you prefer the Black body, I suggest you send a request via email, and I'm confident they would try to accommodate you: [email protected]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
How do these compare to let's say the Violet Design Black Kight?
how hot is the output?



Cheu
...I have no first-hand experience with the Violet Design mic, so I can only say that the CM-1 does have hotter output than the 3U Warbler I also tested...the CM-1 employs Toshiba FETs (input and output), Wima film capacitors and Panasonic electrolytic capacitors in the audio output circuit...other specs for the CM-1 are as follows:

. Directional Pattern……Cardioid
. Frequency Range……20 Hz~20 kHz
. Sensitivity……22.4mV/Pa or -33dB
. Output Impedance……100Ω
. Rated Load Impedance……≥1kΩ
. Low-Cut Filter……Flat, 75Hz or 100Hz
. Pre Attenuation Pad……0, -8dB or -16dB
. Maximum SPL……140/148/156dB (@1kHz 1kΩ 0.5% THD, 0/-8/-16dB)
. Maximum output……16dBu @1kHz, 1kΩ, 0.5% THD
. S/N Ratio……87dBA (IEC651)
. Equivalent Noise……7dBA (IEC651)
. Dynamic Range……133dBA (IEC651)

I hope that helps...
Old 26th April 2015
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...Yes, $199 would be the price for the pair, assuming no one else bids (and there is no such activity yet since few know about these mics)...

...I think the Teal would actually be very nice for live use on stage...but if you prefer the Black body, I suggest you send a request via email, and I'm confident they would try to accommodate you: [email protected]



...I have no first-hand experience with the Violet Design mic, so I can only say that the CM-1 does have hotter output than the 3U Warbler I also tested...the CM-1 employs Toshiba FETs (input and output), Wima film capacitors and Panasonic electrolytic capacitors in the audio output circuit...other specs for the CM-1 are as follows:

. Directional Pattern……Cardioid
. Frequency Range……20 Hz~20 kHz
. Sensitivity……22.4mV/Pa or -33dB
. Output Impedance……100Ω
. Rated Load Impedance……≥1kΩ
. Low-Cut Filter……Flat, 75Hz or 100Hz
. Pre Attenuation Pad……0, -8dB or -16dB
. Maximum SPL……140/148/156dB (@1kHz 1kΩ 0.5% THD, 0/-8/-16dB)
. Maximum output……16dBu @1kHz, 1kΩ, 0.5% THD
. S/N Ratio……87dBA (IEC651)
. Equivalent Noise……7dBA (IEC651)
. Dynamic Range……133dBA (IEC651)

I hope that helps...
Thank you!



Cheu
Old 29th April 2015
  #41
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I've got a Warbler I coming too. I'll share thoughts.
Old 30th April 2015
  #42
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Got a teal 3U Audio CM-1 coming. I will also post some samples.
Old 1st May 2015
  #43
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...we had a baritone reggae-artist pass thru the studio, so I had him track two quick takes, both singing and rapping, one on the Warbler (with K67 capsule) and the other on the CM-1 (with C12 capsule)...this artist has a somewhat prominent nasal tone that can be problematic on mics that are too mid forward...these are the raw/untreated files, both mics thru a Great River ME-1NV on clean setting...I hope these give a bit more of an idea how these mics sound...planning to track female vocals for the next session...

3U Warbler I V1 position:
https://app.box.com/s/96c5nq6by1e48wn081ewrpcwbt8jflee

3U Teal CM-1:
https://app.box.com/s/0k4be0uy65z1sbnnsezrd16gvf25p2hb
Old 1st May 2015
  #44
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Thanks for posting Kidv!
Wow, they don't have much in common soundwise! Sonds almost like two different singers to me.
Can't say wich I like better though. Both have a nice quality to them in their own way.

The air band of the CM1 is impressive! Should sound great on female vocals.
Old 1st May 2015
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jule View Post
Thanks for posting Kidv!
Wow, they don't have much in common soundwise! Sonds almost like two different singers to me.
Can't say wich I like better though. Both have a nice quality to them in their own way.

The air band of the CM1 is impressive! Should sound great on female vocals.
I totally agree with your thoughts...because the Warbler I has a fairly flat 87-style mid-range, you get a bit more of the nasal-tone that can be problematic on this particular singer's voice (a more mid-forward mic like the U47 would reveal even more)...

...but the slightly-scooped mids (smiley-face EQ) of the Teal CM-1 take the nasal-tone out of the equation, by emphasizing the lower beef in his baritone voice and throws some nice "air" on top for presence...

...yes, I think a female voice or an acoustic guitar would really show just how terrific the CM-1 (C12 capsule) can perform...I think a pair as drum overheads would also be a very good application...
Old 1st May 2015
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...I think a pair as drum overheads would also be a very good application...
...definitly something I want to try!
Old 1st May 2015
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jule View Post
...definitly something I want to try!
...if you do decide to try them, for the best price (including free int'l shipping) for a matched pair, reach out direct to Mr. Zhuang at: [email protected] and tell him you're a member of the GS forum...this circumvents the eBay process and associated fees...

Old 1st May 2015
  #48
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Thanks! I will.
Old 1st May 2015
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
I totally agree with your thoughts...because the Warbler I has a fairly flat 87-style mid-range, you get a bit more of the nasal-tone that can be problematic on this particular singer's voice (a more mid-forward mic like the U47 would reveal even more)...

...but the slightly-scooped mids (smiley-face EQ) of the Teal CM-1 take the nasal-tone out of the equation, by emphasizing the lower beef in his baritone voice and throws some nice "air" on top for presence...

...yes, I think a female voice or an acoustic guitar would really show just how terrific the CM-1 (C12 capsule) can perform...I think a pair as drum overheads would also be a very good application...
Kid... thanks for the samples.. I've been following your posts on these 3u mics across several other threads. I was looking at these mics for a new vocal mic for myself. I was looking at the Warbler i, but after hearing your rasta buddy haha... I'm not sure that is right for me. I'm a tenor and I can get a little nasally, so I'm worried that Warbler 1 will bring too much of that bad character out in my voice. I felt like the CM-1 might be a bit tinny for me... would you agree with that??
Old 1st May 2015
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumstick View Post
Kid... thanks for the samples.. I've been following your posts on these 3u mics across several other threads. I was looking at these mics for a new vocal mic for myself. I was looking at the Warbler i, but after hearing your rasta buddy haha... I'm not sure that is right for me. I'm a tenor and I can get a little nasally, so I'm worried that Warbler 1 will bring too much of that bad character out in my voice. I felt like the CM-1 might be a bit tinny for me... would you agree with that??
...I'm glad you asked...there are actually 3 more Warbler variants in the works right now (MKs III, IV, V), all with upgraded versions of the same C12 capsule used in the Teal CM-1...that is what will probably work best for you...not tinny at all...when the C12 is tuned with a bit more mid-presence boost, you get into classic Elam 251 territory (some call it 'holy grail")...

...what I recommend is that you reach out to Mr. Zhuang via the contact email I posted above, and tell him you are a tenor vocalist and you wonder which of the C12-series "Warbler" FET mics would he recommend, and mention the "251" style...he is tuning these mics specifically to flatter certain voice types, and the reason for 3 different C12 tunings is that an edge-terminated capsule has the broadest range of possible frequency tuning, as compared to center-terminated capsules like the K67 and K47...think of it like tuning a drum head...I'm confident he will give you the most appropriate recommendations...

...I myself am looking forward to the C12 Warbler variants, based on how good the C12-based CM-1 sounds...
Old 1st May 2015
  #51
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How does the 3Us compare to the Stellars?
Old 1st May 2015
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...I'm glad you asked...there are actually 3 more Warbler variants in the works right now (MKs III, IV, V), all with upgraded versions of the same C12 capsule used in the Teal CM-1...that is what will probably work best for you...not tinny at all...when the C12 is tuned with a bit more mid-presence boost, you get into classic Elam 251 territory (some call it 'holy grail")...

...what I recommend is that you reach out to Mr. Zhuang via the contact email I posted above, and tell him you are a tenor vocalist and you wonder which of the C12-series "Warbler" FET mics would he recommend, and mention the "251" style...he is tuning these mics specifically to flatter certain voice types, and the reason for 3 different C12 tunings is that an edge-terminated capsule has the broadest range of possible frequency tuning, as compared to center-terminated capsules like the K67 and K47...think of it like tuning a drum head...I'm confident he will give you the most appropriate recommendations...

...I myself am looking forward to the C12 Warbler variants, based on how good the C12-based CM-1 sounds...
You're a stud!! Thank you, I'll do exactly that!
Old 1st May 2015
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jule View Post
How does the 3Us compare to the Stellars?
...I've always felt the Stellar tube mics were the best value in valve-based LDC condenser mics, the CM-6 being truly exceptional...when KEL audio was doing business, their offerings were arguably the best value in solid-state FET based LDC mics...but now that KEL has moved on to higher-end product offerings, I believe 3U Audio is the brand to watch for reasonably priced, pro-quality FET-based LCD microphones...

...the fact that a respected audio-engineer that has a history of designing capsules for the boutique segment of the mic market, is now focusing on microphones in the $150-300 retail range is very exciting...and selling direct to the consumer (like Stellar), without middleman markups, IMHO, is a big plus!...

...then consider that 3U is offering very nice quality FET LDC microphone like the Teal (C12 based) CM-1 for about the same price that good quality Chinese C12 capsules alone is going for is quite amazing...
Old 1st May 2015
  #54
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Yes, thank you Kidv!
I think I will check both, the Stellars and the 3Us.

..Now, who will check out the 3U tube mics for us??
Old 1st May 2015
  #55
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I keep thinking, "Yeah, I'm good with the mics I have and I don't need anymore". Then comes along kidvybes all excited with the new toys he's got. I have to quit opening his posts .
Old 1st May 2015
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jule View Post
How does the 3Us compare to the Stellars?
Post 34 will give you some idea of the Stellar CM-5 vs 3U Audio Teal CM-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...there are actually 3 more Warbler variants in the works right now (MKs III, IV, V), all with upgraded versions of the same C12 capsule used in the Teal CM-1...that is what will probably work best for you...not tinny at all...when the C12 is tuned with a bit more mid-presence boost, you get into classic Elam 251 territory (some call it 'holy grail")...
I am looking forward to hearing these.
Old 1st May 2015
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jule View Post
Yes, thank you Kidv!
I think I will check both, the Stellars and the 3Us.

..Now, who will check out the 3U tube mics for us??
...geez!...that GZ67 keeps grabbing my attention...but I have to keep telling myself, this is the "Low End Theory"...
Old 1st May 2015
  #58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkF48 View Post
I keep thinking, "Yeah, I'm good with the mics I have and I don't need anymore". Then comes along kidvybes all excited with the new toys he's got. I have to quit opening his posts .
This. So many times this.
Old 1st May 2015
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haysonics View Post
Post 34 will give you some idea of the Stellar CM-5 vs 3U Audio CM-1
Yes. Thanks for the samples haysonics!
Old 1st May 2015
  #60
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I haven't loved the sounds of the CM-1 in most samples I've heard but I definitely prefer it to the CM-5 in haysonic's clip and I've owned the CM-5 so I know it's a solid mic.

I'm very interested in whatever Warbler iteration gets the 251 voicing.

I'll have a Warbler I in a couple weeks so I'll give some feedback.
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