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Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings
Old 11th January 2017
  #4231
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Totally agree. The GZ800 did something special for @73mk2 voice when dropped in the mix. The strange thing is, I preferred the TLM when I listened to the raw unprocessed vocals but once they were both sitting in the track the GZ was the clear winner. Never experienced that before. Hmmm...
I don't disagree, it just seems to me that the TLM-193 could be shaped a bit more. That mic seems like a block of marble waiting to be carved, but I still have the same criticism's. Sounds compressed, restricted and has too much LMF.. Although I still stand by it has a bit of a "record" sheen to it in the context of that song.

Where'as the GZ, doesn't sound restricted but it also sounds too thin and a little weak in comparison. It takes me a while to really decide what my opinion is on a mic, that's why I tend to rent them.

Ultimatley, in this instance my opinion hasn't really changed. They both would be far from my first choice for the singers voice, although I still want to test out a TLM-193 and see exactly how pliable it is. Not because I think it's the best sounding mic I've ever heard (far from), it just might be very useful in certain contexts..

It's rare that a mic A/B takes me by surprise, but that one did.. I think initially I wasn't sure what to make of it.

Last edited by ShadowAMD; 11th January 2017 at 06:16 PM..
Old 11th January 2017
  #4232
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
OK, here's a request for you, Guosheng. I know you're out there somewhere.

Please add a third CM1 to your starter line; one with a K47-style capsule.
Don't be shy about it; paint the body true red. That's the complementary colour of teal. So it will underline the physical and audible contrast of the capsules.
Offer all three CM1s separately or in one package for $299.

Who's with me?
You got my vote
Old 12th January 2017
  #4233
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
^

Not asking who's ready to order, but who thinks it's a good idea.
More colors, both audio and visual =
Old 12th January 2017
  #4234
Just listened to the Gz800 vs the Tlm 193 and the Gz kicked azz. The Tlm 193 sounds nice also but for the price of the 193 you could have both tube and fet of the Gz. With the fet sounding so good I know the tube is gonna be amazing! There's a new Sheriff in town and his name Guosheng. I'm a Neumann fan and user but long gone are the days of overpriced gear to get a pro level sound. Shout out 3U Warm and Stam Audio for bringing pro sound at home studio prices hats off. Just got my Great River Nv1 today! can't wait to hear it with my Gz67fet. Saving for the Gz800 as we speak.
Old 12th January 2017
  #4235
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHustle33 View Post
Just listened to the Gz800 vs the Tlm 193 and the Gz kicked azz. The Tlm 193 sounds nice also but for the price of the 193 you could have both tube and fet of the Gz. With the fet sounding so good I know the tube is gonna be amazing! There's a new Sheriff in town and his name Guosheng. I'm a Neumann fan and user but long gone are the days of overpriced gear to get a pro level sound. Shout out 3U Warm and Stam Audio for bringing pro sound at home studio prices hats off. Just got my Great River Nv1 today! can't wait to hear it with my Gz67fet. Saving for the Gz800 as we speak.

I really wanna hear what the gz800 tube sounds like! Anyone out there ordered one yet?
Old 12th January 2017
  #4236
Gear Nut
 
Rockabilly69's Avatar
It's funny how we disagree on the tone of the GZ800 being better in the mix than the TLM193 on 73MK2's clip. Some folks like the edge that the GZ800 is giving the voice although I think it's not sitting in the mix as well as the TLM193. If anything, I feel it's too edgy/bright for the track. Definitely proves many of us are looking for different sounds in mixes, and with that, just how important it is the audition these pieces of equipment in our own studios with our own mixes!!!
Old 12th January 2017
  #4237
Lives for gear
 

Which is better, vanilla or chocolate?

Answer: both.
Old 12th January 2017
  #4238
I know there's different voices and studios but a 600 dollar Mic vs a 1600 mic is very impressive. There's no way imho that the Tlm193 sounds 1000 dollars better although it's sounds nice. I'm willing to bet the Gz800 tube would be at least $2000 or better if it had a BIG company name on it. Since hearing these mics for their price I just can't justify paying the inflated prices being charged. For what I paid for my Tlm 103 I could have got a Gz mic and 2 Warblers smh. I love the Tlm 103 for Hip/RnB and my voice as well it has that certain vibe to it.
Old 12th January 2017
  #4239
Gear Addict
So I emailed guosheng and he said no plans to make a 47 style cm1 mic so that we have all 3 flavours on the low end of 3u.

Like the warbler 6 request, I think we need to come together to make this happen. Everyone else should email him the same question and let it be known its something people want and would be very beneficial to those wanting to get there feet wet but not knowing which type of mic works best for their voice(myself included)

Idk about you guys but I would love to be able to spend 300$ and get a black cm1, a teal and whatever this new 47 style capsule cm1 would be and test all 3 on my voice and know what works best. Then just send the other two back or sell all 3 and upgrade to a warbler or gz calibur mic knowing that its gonna be the best for my voice type.
Old 12th January 2017
  #4240
Gear Head
 
_Bender_'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy View Post
So I emailed guosheng and he said no plans to make a 47 style cm1 mic so that we have all 3 flavours on the low end of 3u.

Like the warbler 6 request, I think we need to come together to make this happen. Everyone else should email him the same question and let it be known its something people want and would be very beneficial to those wanting to get there feet wet but not knowing which type of mic works best for their voice(myself included)

Idk about you guys but I would love to be able to spend 300$ and get a black cm1, a teal and whatever this new 47 style capsule cm1 would be and test all 3 on my voice and know what works best. Then just send the other two back or sell all 3 and upgrade to a warbler or gz calibur mic knowing that its gonna be the best for my voice type.

I mean I think his line's quite diverse already and gives you a good picture of quality & range.

Leave the man alone, he's doing great as is! Save up the cash and buy what you really want brother.
Old 12th January 2017
  #4241
Lives for gear
 

Leave the man alone?
Old 12th January 2017
  #4242
Lives for gear
 
Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Bender_ View Post
I mean I think his line's quite diverse already and gives you a good picture of quality & range.

Leave the man alone, he's doing great as is! Save up the cash and buy what you really want brother.
heheh. I don't think legato was suggesting the CM-1 package because he needs budget mics (I believe he's got a U67 for crying out loud...).

I think he was just suggesting it as a cool offering.
Old 12th January 2017
  #4243
Gear Head
 
_Bender_'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Leave the man alone?
I'm talking of course about the Wizard himself Mr. G
Old 12th January 2017
  #4244
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Bender_ View Post
I mean I think his line's quite diverse already and gives you a good picture of quality & range.

Leave the man alone, he's doing great as is! Save up the cash and buy what you really want brother.
Of course. I think he is doing great as is. I just think that a cm1 offering of 47 capsule realm in the low end range would be great for anybody who is wanting to get a small taste of the rainbow for less $$. IMO if guosheng made a 47 capsule inspired cm1 mic, thats the icing on the cake for me. 3u for president.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan View Post
heheh. I don't think legato was suggesting the CM-1 package because he needs budget mics (I believe he's got a U67 for crying out loud...).

I think he was just suggesting it as a cool offering.
Yeah exactly. That is my thoughts as well. I think it would be a great offering. It would make 3u the total complete package IMO. With offerings in the low/mid/high end of things in all the different flavors.

CM1's/Warblers/GZ Series. Complete.
Old 13th January 2017
  #4245
Gear Nut
 
Rockabilly69's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Which is better, vanilla or chocolate?

Answer: both.
yes
Old 13th January 2017
  #4246
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHustle33 View Post
I know there's different voices and studios but a 600 dollar Mic vs a mic is very impressive. There's no way imho that the sounds 1000 dollars better although it's sounds nice. I'm willing to bet the Gz800 tube would be at least $2000 or better if it had a BIG company name on it. Since hearing these mics for their price I just can't justify paying the inflated prices being charged. For what I paid for my I could have got a Gz mic and 2 smh. I love the Tlm 103 for Hip/RnB and my voice as well it has that certain vibe to it.
It's not that impressive, there's ton's of great sounding mics in the low to mid range with incredible spec's from the likes of Audio Technica, Lauten, Mojave, Superlux / Samson etc.

A cheap mic can be worth more than an expensive one if it gives you everything you need.
@Rockabilly69

It's all about finding that compromise for yourself, it's not quite as easy as it looks.. In all fairness, it's a pretty chalk and cheese comparison between those two mic's. There's tons of them in the middle ground.!

.............

BTW, I've recieved my Warbler and GZ67.. Looking forward to testing them out.
Old 13th January 2017
  #4247
Gear Nut
 
Rockabilly69's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowAMD View Post
It's not that impressive, there's ton's of great sounding mics in the low to mid range with incredible spec's from the likes of Audio Technica, Lauten, Mojave, Superlux / Samson etc.

A cheap mic can be worth more than an expensive one if it gives you everything you need.
@Rockabilly69

It's all about finding that compromise for yourself, it's not quite as easy as it looks.. In all fairness, it's a pretty chalk and cheese comparison between those two mic's. There's tons of them in the middle ground.!

.............

BTW, I've recieved my Warbler and GZ67.. Looking forward to testing them out.
I'm not against using cheap mics. I just preferred the TLM193 in that mix. I just bought two MXL mics, a Revelation, and a Revelation Stereo, which I got ridiculously cheap on a closeout deal ($399 each!!!). They are EF86 based and sound pretty damn good although have a bit of self noise. I personally go for what works best. Last night I was recording a song and I preferred a cheap Blue Robbie pre over my Manley voxbox on the vocal track I was recording. I also use SM7s and SM57s where many people would use more expensive mics. TO top it off I really like the Neumann TLM103 and the Rode NTK, mics everybody loves to hate. So I truly believe in what works for the song. And I really like the sound of the GZ67 from what I've heard on Ragan's tracks, I just don't like the sound of the GZ800 in that mix, it was just too thin and edgy.
Old 13th January 2017
  #4248
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockabilly69 View Post
I'm not against using cheap mics. I just preferred the TLM193 in that mix. I just bought two MXL mics, a Revelation, and a Revelation Stereo, which I got ridiculously cheap on a closeout deal ($399 each!!!). They are EF86 based and sound pretty damn good although have a bit of self noise. I personally go for what works best. Last night I was recording a song and I preferred a cheap Blue Robbie pre over my Manley voxbox on the vocal track I was recording. I also use SM7s and SM57s where many people would use more expensive mics. TO top it off I really like the Neumann TLM103 and the Rode NTK, mics everybody loves to hate. So I truly believe in what works for the song. And I really like the sound of the GZ67 from what I've heard on Ragan's tracks, I just don't like the sound of the GZ800 in that mix, it was just too thin and edgy.
I quoted Jhussle, about the cheap mic's. But sure, I agree..

I'm not exactly limited by options, there's plenty of places to rent out mic's out around here.. A vintage U67 only costs $150.00 a week via studiocare, so it's easy to get my hands on pretty much every mic at any price range and test it out (well if it's a well known manufacturer or classic anyway)..

I do it sometimes just to see what all the fuss is about , but ultimatley it is what works for you.. The GZ67 IMO would of been the best compromise for this particular vocalist, I'm also not a fan of extended upper frequency mic's especially in cheap LDC's as they sound hollow and shrill to the point I can't listen to them some times.

The TLM 193 doesn't deserve the sort of kicking it get's around GS, but then again there are IMO better mic's for less.

Again, it's all subjective but I agree with everything you said (besides the TLM 103) ..
Old 13th January 2017
  #4249
Gear Nut
 
Rockabilly69's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowAMD View Post
I quoted Jhussle, about the cheap mic's. But sure, I agree..

I'm not exactly limited by options, there's plenty of places to rent out mic's out around here.. A vintage U67 only costs $150.00 a week via studiocare, so it's easy to get my hands on pretty much every mic at any price range and test it out (well if it's a well known manufacturer or classic anyway)..

I do it sometimes just to see what all the fuss is about , but ultimatley it is what works for you.. The GZ67 IMO would of been the best compromise for this particular vocalist, I'm also not a fan of extended upper frequency mic's especially in cheap LDC's as they sound hollow and shrill to the point I can't listen to them some times.

The TLM 193 doesn't deserve the sort of kicking it get's around GS, but then again there are IMO better mic's for less.

Again, it's all subjective but I agree with everything you said (besides the TLM 103) ..
Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Old 13th January 2017
  #4250
Lives for gear
The TLM mics are not very well regarded around these parts. When people talk about Neumann they mean U47, U67 and U87. Not the TLM stuff. The TLM 103 is just as bad as cheap Chinese OEM condensers according to some.
Old 13th January 2017
  #4251
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan View Post
heheh. I don't think legato was suggesting the CM-1 package because he needs budget mics (I believe he's got a U67 for crying out loud...).

I think he was just suggesting it as a cool offering.
Yup, for I feel it would benefit the users and the maker.
Old 13th January 2017
  #4252
Gear Head
 
73mk2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
The TLM mics are not very well regarded around these parts. When people talk about Neumann they mean U47, U67 and U87. Not the TLM stuff. The TLM 103 is just as bad as cheap Chinese OEM condensers according to some.
Yes, I agree, but the TLM193 is not in that case...
Old 13th January 2017
  #4253
Gear Nut
 
Rockabilly69's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73mk2 View Post
Yes, I agree, but the TLM193 is not in that case...
Or the TLM170!!!!
Old 13th January 2017
  #4254
Gear Head
 
73mk2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockabilly69 View Post
Or the TLM170!!!!
Yes the 193 and the 170 are in the same way, the difference is on the multi pattern for the 170, and only cardioid for the 193... But they are absolutly not cheap chinese mics !!!
Old 14th January 2017
  #4255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockabilly69 View Post
I'm not against using cheap mics. I just preferred the TLM193 in that mix. I just bought two MXL mics, a Revelation, and a Revelation Stereo, which I got ridiculously cheap on a closeout deal ($399 each!!!). They are EF86 based and sound pretty damn good although have a bit of self noise. I personally go for what works best. Last night I was recording a song and I preferred a cheap Blue Robbie pre over my Manley voxbox on the vocal track I was recording. I also use SM7s and SM57s where many people would use more expensive mics. TO top it off I really like the Neumann TLM103 and the Rode NTK, mics everybody loves to hate. So I truly believe in what works for the song. And I really like the sound of the GZ67 from what I've heard on Ragan's tracks, I just don't like the sound of the GZ800 in that mix, it was just too thin and edgy.
I've had a little TLM103 for a long time. Now have a pair. I work out of other studios a lot, and there were always "better" mics to choose from. I bought into the internet hype that the TLM103 was a sizzly, over hyped piece of crap, even though my ears didn't tell me that. At least not with most singers with good natural tone.

Way back in like 2011, there is a GS member here named Kenny Gioia.
He posted a mix in which he tracked out virtually all the instruments and voices as overdubs using only the lowly TLM103. I think he said EVERYTHING except the drums.

Anyways, that day changed the way I look at my little mic. That mix sounded amazing. I tried to find the thread just now, and couldn't, but I'm sure it's still on GS. A long one about tracking full bands and drums. He's a great engineer / producer.

tHE BAND WAS TALENTED. Singer had tone.

Which, kinda should be a pre-requisite...no?

I mean no mic or whatever is going to fill the void of no talent / bad tone / no technique. I don't care how nice of a mic.

Customer "I need to buy a mic."
Sales guy "Whatcha looking for?"
Customer "A mic that matches my natural vocal tone and talent level"
Salesman "OK, so a real crappy one?"

I think that we put too much emphasis on the gear, and not enough on technique and performance. Then we blame the mic.

As far as the TLM line in general, the 170, 193, 127, (102 even) are all great mics. Particularly for instrument pickup.

The 170 gets used on every major film scoring session still to this day, and lots of other classical and Jazz work.

They do not bring a lot of extra stuff to your vocal, if you are looking to bling your vocal out. But they most certainly will give you what is there in a respectable, smooth, accurate and easy to listen to way. I bet with any of these mics with a transformer coupled discrete preamp, a new LA2A clone, and a Pultec clone, and you should get amazing results on vocals.

Would I rather have a 67? Yeah, for vocals. For other things, maybe not.

I think we have so many choices it's ridiculous, and I think people jump around looking for equipment and mics to fix things they should do in their performances too often nowadays. That's my thinking.

But, it's Gearslutz, and talking about gear is fun. And having options at these price points certainly can't hurt.
Old 14th January 2017
  #4256
Quote:
Originally Posted by newton in orbit View Post
i've had a little tlm103 for a long time. Now have a pair. I work out of other studios a lot, and there were always "better" mics to choose from. I bought into the internet hype that the tlm103 was a sizzly, over hyped piece of crap, even though my ears didn't tell me that. At least not with most singers with good natural tone.

Way back in like 2011, there is a gs member here named kenny gioia.
He posted a mix in which he tracked out virtually all the instruments and voices as overdubs using only the lowly tlm103. I think he said everything except the drums.

Anyways, that day changed the way i look at my little mic. That mix sounded amazing. I tried to find the thread just now, and couldn't, but i'm sure it's still on gs. A long one about tracking full bands and drums. He's a great engineer / producer.

The band was talented. Singer had tone.

Which, kinda should be a pre-requisite...no?

I mean no mic or whatever is going to fill the void of no talent / bad tone / no technique. I don't care how nice of a mic.

Customer "i need to buy a mic."
sales guy "whatcha looking for?"
customer "a mic that matches my natural vocal tone and talent level"
salesman "ok, so a real crappy one?"

i think that we put too much emphasis on the gear, and not enough on technique and performance. Then we blame the mic.

As far as the tlm line in general, the 170, 193, 127, (102 even) are all great mics. Particularly for instrument pickup.

The 170 gets used on every major film scoring session still to this day, and lots of other classical and jazz work.

They do not bring a lot of extra stuff to your vocal, if you are looking to bling your vocal out. But they most certainly will give you what is there in a respectable, smooth, accurate and easy to listen to way. I bet with any of these mics with a transformer coupled discrete preamp, a new la2a clone, and a pultec clone, and you should get amazing results on vocals.

Would i rather have a 67? Yeah, for vocals. For other things, maybe not.

I think we have so many choices it's ridiculous, and i think people jump around looking for equipment and mics to fix things they should do in their performances too often nowadays. That's my thinking.

But, it's gearslutz, and talking about gear is fun. And having options at these price points certainly can't hurt.
what he said!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 14th January 2017
  #4257
Lives for gear
 
Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
I've had a little TLM103 for a long time. Now have a pair. I work out of other studios a lot, and there were always "better" mics to choose from. I bought into the internet hype that the TLM103 was a sizzly, over hyped piece of crap, even though my ears didn't tell me that. At least not with most singers with good natural tone.

Way back in like 2011, there is a GS member here named Kenny Gioia.
He posted a mix in which he tracked out virtually all the instruments and voices as overdubs using only the lowly TLM103. I think he said EVERYTHING except the drums.

Anyways, that day changed the way I look at my little mic. That mix sounded amazing. I tried to find the thread just now, and couldn't, but I'm sure it's still on GS. A long one about tracking full bands and drums. He's a great engineer / producer.

tHE BAND WAS TALENTED. Singer had tone.

Which, kinda should be a pre-requisite...no?

I mean no mic or whatever is going to fill the void of no talent / bad tone / no technique. I don't care how nice of a mic.

Customer "I need to buy a mic."
Sales guy "Whatcha looking for?"
Customer "A mic that matches my natural vocal tone and talent level"
Salesman "OK, so a real crappy one?"

I think that we put too much emphasis on the gear, and not enough on technique and performance. Then we blame the mic.

As far as the TLM line in general, the 170, 193, 127, (102 even) are all great mics. Particularly for instrument pickup.

The 170 gets used on every major film scoring session still to this day, and lots of other classical and Jazz work.

They do not bring a lot of extra stuff to your vocal, if you are looking to bling your vocal out. But they most certainly will give you what is there in a respectable, smooth, accurate and easy to listen to way. I bet with any of these mics with a transformer coupled discrete preamp, a new LA2A clone, and a Pultec clone, and you should get amazing results on vocals.

Would I rather have a 67? Yeah, for vocals. For other things, maybe not.

I think we have so many choices it's ridiculous, and I think people jump around looking for equipment and mics to fix things they should do in their performances too often nowadays. That's my thinking.

But, it's Gearslutz, and talking about gear is fun. And having options at these price points certainly can't hurt.
Great post.
Old 14th January 2017
  #4258
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post

I think that we put too much emphasis on the gear, and not enough on technique and performance. Then we blame the mic.
Kinda, I agree with what you're saying.. But the guy who posted the comparison between the GZ800 and has got some chops, man's a great singer with great control.

Although there was quite as stark difference between those two mic's, sure a lot of it's subjective but you can obviously tell he wouldn't be best suited to quite a few mic's.

If we're being completely straight, you only really need something like an SM58 to get a half decent result. I couldn't complain to the FOH guy and say, sorry we have to cancel the gig tonight because I don't have my 2K LDC.

You learn the mic, make it work for you.. I don't need a 2K LDC (or an LDC), but I do find it more pleasing and comfortable to work with. If something sounds good to you it'll also enhance your performance.

Simple as this end of the day, try a few.. Pick the one that's best for you, make sweet music.. End of.!
Old 14th January 2017
  #4259
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowAMD View Post
Kinda, I agree with what you're saying.. But the guy who posted the comparison between the GZ800 and has got some chops, man's a great singer with great control.

Although there was quite as stark difference between those two mic's, sure a lot of it's subjective but you can obviously tell he wouldn't be best suited to quite a few mic's.

If we're being completely straight, you only really need something like an SM58 to get a half decent result. I couldn't complain to the FOH guy and say, sorry we have to cancel the gig tonight because I don't have my 2K LDC.

You learn the mic, make it work for you.. I don't need a 2K LDC (or an LDC), but I do find it more pleasing and comfortable to work with. If something sounds good to you it'll also enhance your performance.

Simple as this end of the day, try a few.. Pick the one that's best for you, make sweet music.. End of.!
Well and even on top of that, we then get into the whole realm of(and this is something I don't fully understand cause I am still learning) is.....

Tube VS FET

I mean if its 90% performance 10% technique, what warrants a purchase of an expensive a$$ tube mic that takes an hour to warm up vs a fet thats cheaper and works right away?

Or have I hit an exception?
Old 14th January 2017
  #4260
Gear Nut
 
Rockabilly69's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
...As far as the TLM line in general, the 170, 193, 127, (102 even) are all great mics. Particularly for instrument pickup.

The 170 gets used on every major film scoring session still to this day, and lots of other classical and Jazz work.

They do not bring a lot of extra stuff to your vocal, if you are looking to bling your vocal out. But they most certainly will give you what is there in a respectable, smooth, accurate and easy to listen to way. I bet with any of these mics with a transformer coupled discrete preamp, a new LA2A clone, and a Pultec clone, and you should get amazing results on vocals.
I've gotten GREAT vocal tracks with a TLM103 and Manley Voxbox which proves that point! I've done the same with the Neumann U89 which is famous for being notoriously flat.
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