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Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings
Old 23rd May 2016
  #3121
MYN
Gear Addict
 
MYN's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jule View Post
Do you have samples of your voice with both mics?? That would be great! You can pm me if its better for you.
I sold the IV to help pay for a GZ67. Unfortunately, I never recorded both the IV and the 251 at the same time.
Old 25th May 2016
  #3122
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bowzin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy
Would you say it thickened things up/added weight? My biggest thing is I am trying to add some color and weight to my voice. It's slightly on the thinner side and the warbler 6 is a modern sounding bright mic and it's just a tad too bright((IMO) even on it's darkest setting but I will say it is no way harsh. It's a very nice microphone.

But I get some general impressions from some other folks that for what I am trying to do with the modern hip hop sound, the warbler 1 might muddy things up a bit too much(for my voice) it's certainly usable but I think would require more EQ work etc.
Yes, I really like the N72, sounds great and has high quality parts and transformers. But... it's not going to make your brightest Warbler variant not a bright mic. If you find it too bright or thin, I would strongly consider trying the MK1, then you'll know for sure. There was a poster a page back seeking to trade an MK1 for an MK6 even.

I have the MK IV D, the 2nd darkest variant, and get PLENTY of high end detail, it is NOT muddy on vocals. So especially with the MK1, I don't think you are going to "lose" detail with these mics. If you like the Warbler series overall, perhaps instead keep experimenting within the line to find the MK variant with the midrange and eq curve that fits your voice, rather than try to "fix" the MK 6 with a slower/darker color pre. I would definitely not worry about an MK1 not having detail.

Not to go off-topic, and this may be unpopular to you, but first I'd reconsider the Blackjack before buying a $600+ preamp. I'm on the same quest to find the best vocal chain for personal use, and used extensively a Mackie 1640i "mixerface" for a long time. The Blackjack is a two-channel desktop version of that mixer, same Onyx pre's and same Cirrus Logic converters.

I was quite pleased when I switched from the Mackie 1640i to an Audient ID22. Right off the bat, just listening to music, the conversion was noticeably better. It sounded like the cliché "pulled a blanket off my speakers." This stuff is always very subtle (a G chord is still a G chord...), but it was a noticeable difference and an improvement.

Transients were the most noticeable difference, both in playback and recording, which could be quite important for your stated goals about capturing "detail" in your voice. Detail = transients, not just boosted highs. The two onboard pre's are more flattering than the Onyx pres, they sound great. On the ID22 (not the ID14) you can bypass the pre's entirely which is far preferable when first jumping into and comparing the world of outboard pre's, but you may not even feel the need to.

I got results I was ok with at the time on the Mackie, I'm not complaining. But there was certainly an improvement overall, on everything, switching to the Audient ID22. Plus it's USB based and not Firewire which can't be found easily on computers anymore. I got mine for ~$450 used, less than an N72.
Old 26th May 2016
  #3123
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowzin View Post
Yes, I really like the , sounds great and has high quality parts and transformers. But... it's not going to make your brightest Warbler variant not a bright mic. If you find it too bright or thin, I would strongly consider trying the MK1, then you'll know for sure. There was a poster a page back seeking to trade an MK1 for an MK6 even.

I have the MK IV D, the 2nd darkest variant, and get PLENTY of high end detail, it is NOT muddy on vocals. So especially with the MK1, I don't think you are going to "lose" detail with these mics. If you like the Warbler series overall, perhaps instead keep experimenting within the line to find the MK variant with the midrange and eq curve that fits your voice, rather than try to "fix" the MK 6 with a slower/darker color pre. I would definitely not worry about an MK1 not having detail.

Not to go off-topic, and this may be unpopular to you, but first I'd reconsider the Blackjack before buying a $600+ preamp. I'm on the same quest to find the best vocal chain for personal use, and used extensively a Mackie 1640i "mixerface" for a long time. The Blackjack is a two-channel desktop version of that mixer, same Onyx pre's and same Cirrus Logic converters.

I was quite pleased when I switched from the Mackie 1640i to an Audient ID22. Right off the bat, just listening to music, the conversion was noticeably better. It sounded like the cliché "pulled a blanket off my speakers." This stuff is always very subtle (a G chord is still a G chord...), but it was a noticeable difference and an improvement.

Transients were the most noticeable difference, both in playback and recording, which could be quite important for your stated goals about capturing "detail" in your voice. Detail = transients, not just boosted highs. The two onboard pre's are more flattering than the Onyx pres, they sound great. On the ID22 (not the ID14) you can bypass the pre's entirely which is far preferable when first jumping into and comparing the world of outboard pre's, but you may not even feel the need to.

I got results I was ok with at the time on the Mackie, I'm not complaining. But there was certainly an improvement overall, on everything, switching to the Audient ID22. Plus it's USB based and not Firewire which can't be found easily on computers anymore. I got mine for ~$450 used, less than an .
Interesting. Appreciate the solid feedback!! Okay, so in your opinion would I wanna try and get something like the audient id22 and test that with my voice and the warbler 6 before embarking on a new mic quest? It's not that the brightness is harsh in anyway I think its just that because I have a thinner sounding voice with less lows it sounds a bit too airy/floaty if that makes sense. But again, is that something that could be fixed post-recording with eq and or plugins?

I orignally got the blackjack on purpose due to its praise for being a super clean/clear mic pre with quality converters well above its 100$ asking price. But on the flip, if getting a warbler 1 or 4 would fix the problem im having id rather do that due to the 3u mics themselves being cheaper than an audient id22. I mostly just need those fast transients for when I get really lyrical in hip hop or rap fast. I need all the details!! lol

Ive heard from some people that while the mic is important it isnt AS important as the purposed "vocal chain" and performance of "said" song. So while there are mics that will work better with someone than it would another, the performance is the most #1 important factor. So realistically if a songs good its good right? Like my Warbler 6 with my blackjack should still be able to produce a very good sounding song? To make the recording darker or not as airy/fluffy sounding, would I want to cut some of the high around the 10-12k range?
Old 26th May 2016
  #3124
SEED78
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy View Post
Ive heard from some people that while the mic is important it isnt AS important as the purposed "vocal chain" and performance of "said" song. So while there are mics that will work better with someone than it would another, the performance is the most #1 important factor. So realistically if a songs good its good right? Like my Warbler 6 with my blackjack should still be able to produce a very good sounding song? To make the recording darker or not as airy/fluffy sounding, would I want to cut some of the high around the 10-12k range?
I dunno, same people saying that on here prob have a mic collection worth 30k and hand pick mics to match vocalists as a priority at the beginning of a session - I'd imagine in many/some cases they will have their standard reliable preamp like a 1073 and the mic choice will be fussed over a lot in comparison! A great performance recorded badly, is still bad in my book - on a budget just do your best though.
Old 26th May 2016
  #3125
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Well, I got our vocalist to do a quick take of a verse/hook on a new song we are working on. It's not the best take but he just thought it was a scratch track or else we probably would have redone it 10 times if he knew it was going on the internet.

Anyways, here is a Warbler IV vs a Michael Joly Fatboy

Both mics are the same take, running into a Focusrite Forte with no processing. They were both normalized after the take and had the same gain when recorded and looked to be the same levels.
Attached Files
zzzMJEFatboy.mp3 (1.55 MB, 1555 views)

00:4801:07
zzzWarblerIV.mp3 (1.55 MB, 1577 views)

00:5101:07
(Post #3104)

Hey, over 1500 views (listens) and no reply here, yet?

I'll give it a shot then.

For starters, thanks for posting.
I think the difference between the centre and edge terminated capsule is obvious here. Plus they're from a different kitchen, of course. But let's forget that for one second.
Some voices will sound better on centre terminated, others on edge terminated. The voice here has more than plenty mids. To my ears it's a little edgy even. For me, coupling that with a K47 style is "too much of a good thing". So I prefer the Warbler IV on him.
However, ... despite what some may believe, a singer's voice is only partly what's been given to him or her. A large part is how a singer likes to colour his or her voice, either consciously or subconsciously. So if this singer is after this kind of tone, he himself might very well prefer the Fatboy. And I'm not blaming him if he does.
Also, we don't hear it in the mix. The Fatboy will give him (even) more cut.

Now I'd like to hear the Fatboy versus Warbler II on him ...
Old 27th May 2016
  #3126
Minor comment to confirm that the pair of Warbler MKVID's we got this week are sounding great. Used one with a regular client today for a melodic chorus vocal hook and he kept coming back to how good the mic sounded. We were using a Shure SM7b for his older more MC/Rap style tracks - which I like because it sounds solid and tight. The Warbler really opened up the melodic sung sections though.

We're going to test some drum recording with them in the next fortnight. I will do the service of putting them up here as audio examples from this thread helped me make the decision to get these.

Received the mics in the UK within about 7 days of ordering. We didn't get charged customs (which I had factored into the cost) but I've just noticed that they put the package at a value of 80 US Dollars. I'm ok with that and I assume if the (tracked) package is lost then it's on him to replace.
Old 27th May 2016
  #3127
Lives for gear
 

1+1=3



Congrats and enjoy.
Old 27th May 2016
  #3128
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Here's something I may as well post here. I bounced it for the GAP COMP-3a thread because I mentioned how much I liked that comp on drum rooms and someone requested a sample.

But the room mics here are a pair of MKID's. Voice 2 in omni. COMP-3a doing about 10db of GR.

The kit was just in my living room, not a large, treated space or anything.

Attached Thumbnails
Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings-lr-drums.jpg  
Old 27th May 2016
  #3129
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mutetourettes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan View Post
Here's something I may as well post here. I bounced it for the GAP COMP-3a thread because I mentioned how much I liked that comp on drum rooms and someone requested a sample.

But the room mics here are a pair of MKID's. Voice 2 in omni. COMP-3a doing about 10db of GR.

The kit was just in my living room, not a large, treated space or anything.

you put your vinyl over your fireplace????????
Old 27th May 2016
  #3130
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Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mutetourettes View Post
you put your vinyl over your fireplace????????
Heh. Yes? Is that surprising?
Old 27th May 2016
  #3131
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan View Post
Heh. Yes? Is that surprising?
Only if you use the fireplace and like your vinyl straight....lol
Old 27th May 2016
  #3132
Lives for gear
 
Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Only if you use the fireplace and like your vinyl straight....lol
Heheh. You guys must be kidding! I built that mantle and those built ins and shelves. I can assure you there's not a lick of heat getting up to that top slab. There's a helluva lot of brick and fir between.

What kind of fires are you guys having???

My vinyl's been up there for years and remains just fine : )
Old 28th May 2016
  #3133
Lives for gear
 
mutetourettes's Avatar
 

ah, good.. breathes sigh of relief. No LPs were harmed in the making of this living room

Actually I love the turntable alcove! anyhoooooooo just a little off topic... resume the 3U love..... it may be time for me to spring for a CM1 Teal...
Old 28th May 2016
  #3134
Lives for gear
 
bowzin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy View Post
Interesting. Appreciate the solid feedback!! Okay, so in your opinion would I wanna try and get something like the audient id22 and test that with my voice and the warbler 6 before embarking on a new mic quest? It's not that the brightness is harsh in anyway I think its just that because I have a thinner sounding voice with less lows it sounds a bit too airy/floaty if that makes sense. But again, is that something that could be fixed post-recording with eq and or plugins?

I orignally got the blackjack on purpose due to its praise for being a super clean/clear mic pre with quality converters well above its 100$ asking price. But on the flip, if getting a warbler 1 or 4 would fix the problem im having id rather do that due to the 3u mics themselves being cheaper than an audient id22. I mostly just need those fast transients for when I get really lyrical in hip hop or rap fast. I need all the details!! lol

Ive heard from some people that while the mic is important it isnt AS important as the purposed "vocal chain" and performance of "said" song. So while there are mics that will work better with someone than it would another, the performance is the most #1 important factor. So realistically if a songs good its good right? Like my Warbler 6 with my blackjack should still be able to produce a very good sounding song? To make the recording darker or not as airy/fluffy sounding, would I want to cut some of the high around the 10-12k range?
Yep, can absolutely get great results on a blackjack and mk6, based on using the mackie 1640i and mk4, very similar! Point though is if youre happy with the warblers but found the 6 too bright, prob be fun to try another flavor in the range, take your pick. Microphone flavor is one of more important choices on a source so a bit of trial and error is routine.

Interface is a system wide difference, so a different ball of wax. Point was if you're considering outboard preamps, maybe think about moving to an interface that allows you to bypass its preamp section and hit the converters directly. Doesnt have to cost a lot, can be less than the preamp even.
Old 28th May 2016
  #3135
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
@ doom3crazy

I still feel the missing link for you is a preamp with a good EQ for tone shaping. After all that's what a console has built in. You could easily tame the highs whilst you're tracking with a decent shelving EQ.

I think I mentioned the Chameleon Labs 7602 somewhere back in this thread. Well worth considering.

You'll be able to pick up a used one for next to nothing. Very well built, good sounding "Neve inspired" transformer based mic pre and EQ.

Last edited by Blast9; 28th May 2016 at 12:02 PM..
Old 28th May 2016
  #3136
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowzin View Post
Yep, can absolutely get great results on a blackjack and mk6, based on using the mackie 1640i and mk4, very similar! Point though is if youre happy with the warblers but found the 6 too bright, prob be fun to try another flavor in the range, take your pick. Microphone flavor is one of more important choices on a source so a bit of trial and error is routine.

Interface is a system wide difference, so a different ball of wax. Point was if you're considering outboard preamps, maybe think about moving to an interface that allows you to bypass its preamp section and hit the converters directly. Doesnt have to cost a lot, can be less than the preamp even.
Yeah true that. Well lemme ask you this... according to this thread bypassing the pre's to connect a pre amp isnt really an issue with the blackjack. Can you confirm or deny this?

Connecting external Mic Pre to an interface


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blast9 View Post
@ doom3crazy

I still feel the missing link for you is a preamp with a good EQ for tone shaping. After all that's what a console has built in. You could easily tame the highs whilst you're tracking with a decent shelving EQ.

I think I mentioned the Chameleon Labs 7602 somewhere back in this thread. Well worth considering.

You'll be able to pick up a used one for next to nothing. Very well built, good sounding "Neve inspired" transformer based mic pre and EQ.
Yeah I have def been looking at that. It's been between the 7602 and the n72 by seventh circle. Would you choose the 7602 over the n72 and if so why? Reason I ask is cause they are roughly the same price give or a take maybe a 100$ or so. the 7602 used on ebay is around 5-600$
Old 28th May 2016
  #3137
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
Hi there, the N72 is preamp only, and I was gonna suggest getting both, and use the 7602 as an EQ (get it used as they are super cheap) I'm surprised they are that price. I could be wrong but I thought I'd seen the mk 1 for less

Last edited by Blast9; 29th May 2016 at 01:10 AM..
Old 30th May 2016
  #3138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blast9 View Post
Hi there, the N72 is preamp only, and I was gonna suggest getting both, and use the 7602 as an EQ (get it used as they are super cheap) I'm surprised they are that price. I could be wrong but I thought I'd seen the mk 1 for less
Im sure you are right. I honestly cant find a MK1 anywhere on the web. Even on ebay, there are only mkII's and even then the pickings are slim. Any alternative recommendations?
Old 30th May 2016
  #3139
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
I think it is worth checking out the Lindell stuff.

IMHO, for tone shaping, you can't go wrong with the Chameleon Labs 7602, with the great EQ and filters, and input/output gain that you can juggle to get some mojo by cranking the input gain, but having read up about the N72, it sounds like that'd get you closer to the "authentic" Neve 1073 mic pre, but no EQ options.

Personally I'd choose mic pre + EQ fo rmaximum versatility on the way in.

Last edited by Blast9; 31st May 2016 at 12:07 AM..
Old 31st May 2016
  #3140
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTG View Post
Thanks for the box.com link guys.
With the benefit of anonymity I am happy to provide the following link:

https://app.box.com/s/jgbso8w5gpi350iifcjkseqe90va0z93

As a means of explanation, the following items were used:
- Aphex USB500 rack
- Buzz Elixir preamp
- Valhalla Vintage Verb (loving the new Vikings TV show btw)
- MJUC compressor by Klanghelm
- Strat neck position through old bedroom tube amp running 6AQ5 (EL90) tubes
- Tama "Tree of life" 1970's acoustic
- EZ Drummer 2 (Bless you Toontracks)
- Vocals from the best singer available at the time (clearly nobody else home but me, unfortunately)
AND
Warbler MK1D on all instruments except EZ Drummer

No EQ whatsoever BUT I found the MJUC compressor did tend to bring out slightly more sibilance on vox (which didn't really bother me).

Please know I was just mucking around and the purpose was nothing more than to hear how the MK1D works with me. The lyrics clearly indicate I had no idea what I was about to say and in modern marketing terms were "fresh and raw" haha.

Conclusions:
I can't sing
I can barely fingerstyle
The microphone wasn't the weak link and I would definitely try it on anything!
This recording is actually very tasteful... sounds like MOR Pavement. Which is still pretty effin' cool. Anyway, Warbler 1D is now on my wishylist... but IV and V seem enticing too! Anyone wanna repost their IV/V vocal tracks from the past 100+ pages?

I found it Thread Dedicated to Just 3U Audio Mic Demos

Last edited by Misa_; 31st May 2016 at 11:01 PM.. Reason: I found it
Old 1st June 2016
  #3141
SEED78
Guest
There has been a lot of preamp talk on here, so have to recommend this:

Stam Audio 1073MP - stereo 1073 style (no eq,) high quality preamp at preorder price of $790, pretty cheap! I already have something similar but am still tempted at this price!!
https://www.facebook.com/stamaudio/
Old 1st June 2016
  #3142
Gear Nut
 

I just listed my Warbler mk1 on eBay. If anyone is looking to pick one up that is very gently used and wants to save a few bucks I'll be happy to post the link.
Old 1st June 2016
  #3143
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ARIEL's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan View Post
Here's something I may as well post here. I bounced it for the GAP COMP-3a thread because I mentioned how much I liked that comp on drum rooms and someone requested a sample.

But the room mics here are a pair of MKID's. Voice 2 in omni. COMP-3a doing about 10db of GR.

The kit was just in my living room, not a large, treated space or anything.

Sounds excellent Ragan ! Do you have any plans on doing that vintage U87 vs a warbler test down the road or even with the new U87 would be cool to hear.
Old 1st June 2016
  #3144
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Am View Post
I just listed my Warbler mk1 on eBay. If anyone is looking to pick one up that is very gently used and wants to save a few bucks I'll be happy to post the link.
On which continent are you?
Old 1st June 2016
  #3145
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
On which continent are you?
North America sir.
Old 1st June 2016
  #3146
Lives for gear
 

I think doom3crazy is there, too.

PM?
Old 1st June 2016
  #3147
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
I think doom3crazy is there, too.

PM?
He was looking for one? I haven't checked the thread in a bit. I'll see if he's interested.
Old 1st June 2016
  #3148
Lives for gear
 

Well, the term MKI isn't exclusive for Warblers and in hindsight it seems his yesterday's post was about N72 preamps:
Quote:
I honestly cant find a MK1 anywhere on the web. Even on ebay, there are only mkII's and even then the pickings are slim.
But coincidentally the Warbler MKI is still on his radar, too, I believe.
He'll correct me if I'm wrong.
Old 1st June 2016
  #3149
Lives for gear
 
Ragan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARIEL View Post
Sounds excellent Ragan ! Do you have any plans on doing that vintage U87 vs a warbler test down the road or even with the new U87 would be cool to hear.
I'd like to do it it's just that I have to rent the U87 and I've been so happy with my 3U mics I haven't had the urge to rent.

I would though enjoy putting them side by side. So I guess I'd say yeah I'd like to AB them but I'm not sure when I'll get around to it.

I'm also in the middle of a record right now so all my studio time is centered on that.
Old 1st June 2016
  #3150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Am View Post
He was looking for one? I haven't checked the thread in a bit. I'll see if he's interested.
May I ask why you are looking for a warbler 6? What didn't you like about the warbler 1?


Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Well, the term MKI isn't exclusive for Warblers and in hindsight it seems his yesterday's post was about N72 preamps:

But coincidentally the Warbler MKI is still on his radar, too, I believe.
He'll correct me if I'm wrong.
You are right on both terms. I am possibly looking for a warbler 1 due to my 6 being a bit too bright. The mk1 I was referring to was the chameleon labs 7602 mk1.
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