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Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings
Old 8th May 2016
  #3001
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Mischief recently got a MKIID.

He's getting acquainted with it as we speak.

Before he locked himself up, he did post a couple samples.

Country style with some twang.
I'm not totally locked up. Actually I've hit a snag.
I was capturing to garage band and with my last update it no longer is stable with my Scarlette 18i8. I have a work around but it's painfully slow.

I've just bought a Mac mini 2.6ghz server with SSD drive but it's also for our entertainment hub.
I'm hoping to get an IPad Pro soon to capture and then edit on the Mac mini.

In the mean time I've just been practicing (still recovering from my years of thyroid issues so some days my vocals are on and sometimes they just won't relax. But it seems to be getting better all the time.)
At any rate hopefully soon I'll be back working with the Warbler IID and have better samples to upload.

One thing I would like to chime in about is the descent talk of mike majic and replicating vintage mikes.

A couple things to ponder. Even when mikes are produced to the same standard by the same company and the same people each mic is slightly different. Some times those inconsistencies produce something special. If someone wanted to replicate that they would have to deconstruct that mic and be able to figure out what the slight difference was. Almost certainly when the mic went back together it would sound different after being completely deconstructed unless the difference was both discovered and possible to replicate.

Another point is sometimes the majic is that difference sometimes is just majic on a certain source. Where they compliment each other so beautifully. Take another of the same mic or a different mic that has majic on another source and it does not happen. So when those two things come together it is special to the point I would call that majic and I think it's what every one searches for.
Since sound is subjective if an engineer gets one of these mikes and it has majic with a source especially if it's repeatable. Then it becomes a very special or majical mike indeed.

As also stated to make an exact clone I think is possible but the cost and efforts mean by the time it's done and you can ensure repeatability to the point your mikes are sustainable in a retail sense then you are likely going to have to charge a very similar price or maybe even more. That's why you don't see it happening. Cut a few corners somewhere in your business or scale things down you maybe able to offer for slightly less. IMHO.

Again 3u is not cloning mikes. But making quality vintage sounding mikes that are extremely high quality for the price. People use comparison benchmark standard vintage mikes as a ballpark comparison. This is more accurate when comparing 3U to 3U. So if a MK1 has a u87 feel but you want more of a 47 feel then move to the MKII or likewise if the MKI is too bright then the MKII is similarity darker as a u87 compares to a 47. Yet this is keeping with the 3U quality and voicing.
At least that how I interpret it.

Guosheng takes pride in his capsule tuning. I think he is like an artist. So he has tuned and made his line of mikes with a particular sound unique to warblers or GZ. With similarities to an overall quality to mikes people have grown to love and have made as benchmarks for certain tasks. So it only makes sense to make your mike line up fill the needs of those same tasks with your own quality.

I think 3U is doing that. Have a source that would suit a u87 get the MKI need a 47 get the MKII etc and the will work. Again it does not have to do with being a clone. But your getting a vintage sounded mike of high quality that can do the job at direct low prices.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3002
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy View Post
So I currently own a warbler mk6. Great mic. Super clean and clear. I have a random question. Has anyone ever A/B'd any of Mike Joly's oktava mics against any of the 3u microphones? I am sorta tempted to pick up his "hulk 990" mic which is a mod of the mxl 990 microphone. It's his best seller and most popular for hip hop/rap.

The comparison clips of the mic against a u87ai are impressive but the mic is 430$. I am just wondering if I should stick to 3u mics. Especially if they are better and Guosheng gives us such a steal on cost with his microphones.

I am looking to add something to my mic locker but just not sure what to get. I have a tenor ish voice, slightly nasally but nothing that stands out, but more highs in my voice than lows. I do mostly hip hop/rapping. At the moment I just feel like the warbler 6 adds a bit too much air to my voice since I have more highs than I do low's in my voice. Would a darker mic like a warbler II be more fitting? My biggest fear with darker mics is losing that clarity and transient response. I tend to get very intricate lyrically and sometimes rap fast so I need all those lil fine details.
I have a mkiv, a mike joly fatboy, a sm7b and a little blondie, so I'm hoping to get our vocalist to do a session soon and get some comparisons. Hopefully you will see some files soon. I can say the mkiv is a quieter and clearer mic from my horrible voice testings, but that really doesn't have aNY weighted value.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3003
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Are 3U mics an Ebay exclusive order?

Is the Mk I voicing similar to an 87 ? Is that the model?

How can I get one of these in Canada? Thanks
Old 8th May 2016
  #3004
SEED78
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by brockorama View Post
Are 3U mics an Ebay exclusive order?

Is the Mk I voicing similar to an 87 ? Is that the model?

How can I get one of these in Canada? Thanks
There IS a email address on his website you can get him on - better pricing

Mk1/Mk1D - vaguely voiced on a vintage U87

Am sure he prob has already posted mic's to Canada

Enjoy
Old 8th May 2016
  #3005
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy View Post
So I currently own a warbler mk6. Great mic. Super clean and clear. I have a random question. Has anyone ever A/B'd any of Mike Joly's oktava mics against any of the 3u microphones? I am sorta tempted to pick up his "hulk 990" mic which is a mod of the mxl 990 microphone. It's his best seller and most popular for hip hop/rap.

The comparison clips of the mic against a u87ai are impressive but the mic is 430$. I am just wondering if I should stick to 3u mics. Especially if they are better and Guosheng gives us such a steal on cost with his microphones.

I am looking to add something to my mic locker but just not sure what to get. I have a tenor ish voice, slightly nasally but nothing that stands out, but more highs in my voice than lows. I do mostly hip hop/rapping. At the moment I just feel like the warbler 6 adds a bit too much air to my voice since I have more highs than I do low's in my voice. Would a darker mic like a warbler II be more fitting? My biggest fear with darker mics is losing that clarity and transient response. I tend to get very intricate lyrically and sometimes rap fast so I need all those lil fine details.
The Joly mic won't help you. I had what he calls the fat boy I guess now, and his mics don't capture the low mids the way a 3u can. I know the samples on his site sound like they are SUPER close to a U87, but when you get one in your place it sounds like a different story and there is kind of a bit of fatiguing high end to them after awhile imho. They are good mics don't get me wrong, but they aren't really what I would call full bodied.

Have you tried a tube mic before? I had a friend that had a kind of thinner more "nassly" voice and a tube mic fattened him up good with a good in/out trans pre. What mic pre are you using? Have you tried something with an input/output transformer with the MkVI? What about tracking with some compression?
Old 8th May 2016
  #3006
Lives for gear
 

Re. microphone modifications by Michael Joly.

Dennis would say Joly mods microphones, but 3U Audio mics (and Stellar) are "pre-modded".
Which is the better starting point BTW.

I'll add that IMO the Joly mods are a bit um ... one-sided.
IMO there are better mic modders.

Finally, his behaviour on this here forum was such that he got banned.

Oh, and the price of a donor mic plus mod, if on par quality wise (!), won't beat the 3U Audio price.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3007
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy View Post
3000+ posts and over 100 pages!? Dennis would be proud.

3u for president. Move over Clinton/Trump.
Yeah, it happened during our dialogue yesterday.
It appears I closed the 100th page with post #3000 .
What do I win?

Hey, and we're closing in on the sticky thread at the top of this section.
Are we heading for a record?

Yes, Dennis would be proud indeed!

Last edited by legato; 8th May 2016 at 11:26 AM..
Old 8th May 2016
  #3008
Gear Addict
 
bringmewater's Avatar
 

Your comment about a clone price ending up being the same assumes that there is not an inflated markup in the original. It is possible that a vintage mic might cost $400 to make and get marked up to $3000 because of the great snake oil salesmen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mischief View Post
I'm not totally locked up. Actually I've hit a snag.
I was capturing to garage band and with my last update it no longer is stable with my Scarlette 18i8. I have a work around but it's painfully slow.

I've just bought a Mac mini 2.6ghz server with SSD drive but it's also for our entertainment hub.
I'm hoping to get an IPad Pro soon to capture and then edit on the Mac mini.

In the mean time I've just been practicing (still recovering from my years of thyroid issues so some days my vocals are on and sometimes they just won't relax. But it seems to be getting better all the time.)
At any rate hopefully soon I'll be back working with the Warbler IID and have better samples to upload.

One thing I would like to chime in about is the descent talk of mike majic and replicating vintage mikes.

A couple things to ponder. Even when mikes are produced to the same standard by the same company and the same people each mic is slightly different. Some times those inconsistencies produce something special. If someone wanted to replicate that they would have to deconstruct that mic and be able to figure out what the slight difference was. Almost certainly when the mic went back together it would sound different after being completely deconstructed unless the difference was both discovered and possible to replicate.

Another point is sometimes the majic is that difference sometimes is just majic on a certain source. Where they compliment each other so beautifully. Take another of the same mic or a different mic that has majic on another source and it does not happen. So when those two things come together it is special to the point I would call that majic and I think it's what every one searches for.
Since sound is subjective if an engineer gets one of these mikes and it has majic with a source especially if it's repeatable. Then it becomes a very special or majical mike indeed.

As also stated to make an exact clone I think is possible but the cost and efforts mean by the time it's done and you can ensure repeatability to the point your mikes are sustainable in a retail sense then you are likely going to have to charge a very similar price or maybe even more. That's why you don't see it happening. Cut a few corners somewhere in your business or scale things down you maybe able to offer for slightly less. IMHO.

Again 3u is not cloning mikes. But making quality vintage sounding mikes that are extremely high quality for the price. People use comparison benchmark standard vintage mikes as a ballpark comparison. This is more accurate when comparing 3U to 3U. So if a MK1 has a u87 feel but you want more of a 47 feel then move to the MKII or likewise if the MKI is too bright then the MKII is similarity darker as a u87 compares to a 47. Yet this is keeping with the 3U quality and voicing.
At least that how I interpret it.

Guosheng takes pride in his capsule tuning. I think he is like an artist. So he has tuned and made his line of mikes with a particular sound unique to warblers or GZ. With similarities to an overall quality to mikes people have grown to love and have made as benchmarks for certain tasks. So it only makes sense to make your mike line up fill the needs of those same tasks with your own quality.

I think 3U is doing that. Have a source that would suit a u87 get the MKI need a 47 get the MKII etc and the will work. Again it does not have to do with being a clone. But your getting a vintage sounded mike of high quality that can do the job at direct low prices.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3009
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bringmewater View Post
Your comment about a clone price ending up being the same assumes that there is not an inflated markup in the original. It is possible that a vintage mic might cost $400 to make and get marked up to $3000 because of the great snake oil salesmen.
Not really. My assumption is the business model to accomplish this on a scale of reselling mics on a small production.

You must recoup all R&D cost and if you wanted to make exact clones you may have to deconstruct and possibly ruin many actual u87 to discover how they are really getting their sound. Unless you are backed by unlimited resources or financial interest free backing, you are likely going to start production under a mountain of debt.

Many people with the simplest of inventions end up with double mortgages on their own homes and other family members homes trying to fund what it takes to take it to full production.

Once one is capable of supply you need to figure what you can charge. Too little and your business will go under before its off the ground. Not enough and you can't grow your company and you will be left stagnant or a one man show. Too much and people will just buy the real deal unless you have a compelling reason to persuade them to buy your product. The right amount needs to be balanced with supplying the demand. Get it all right and you have a sustainable company.

On the flip side for sure Neumann is charging a premium. But I don't think it's snake oil. Their oil works and nobody is supplying the exact same thing for heaps cheaper. So they charge what the market will bear.

Hell if it was that easy I'd just go take my pick of u87 exact clones down at my local music shop. There would be heaps of compition and the price would be competitive.

So since there aren't a heap of well priced u87 or other benchmark mic clones. The question is why?
It's either not as easy as one would think or not a very viable business venture at the moment.

Now if Nuemann moved production to China then we would likely have cheap very close clones. Nuemann would essentially be handing over all the secrets on a silver platter. They would then have access to the required info, techniques materials and be set with all the tooling, even then they would not be as cheap as you may expect.

Anyway I've ranted long enough.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3010
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mischief View Post

Anyway I've ranted long enough.
And it was all real.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3011
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
You are not understanding his posts at all, and confusing the entire issue. His astute preeminent opinion is exactly the opposite of what you say. He indeed does very highly tuned restorations and sometimes modifications of classic mics, but this has zero to do recreating the classics from scratch. Read his posts again more carefully. Do you read his forum?
I read his forum. Before I put my full response. What issue am I confusing and what is it exactly I am not understanding? Also I didn't say he was recreating classic mics, I said he "makes modern German mics sound just as good as the best examples of vintage German mics." A good example being the Klaus Edition Brauner it is by all means sonically just as good as the best mics out there.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3012
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
I haven't seen anyone be able to re-create the old transformers and their tone, so just based on that alone I will just have to disagree with you. Klaus as far as I know is no exception here, as I don't believe he re-creates any vintage parts but instead has developed ways of minor but very noticeable mods to Neumann mics that keep their overall character but allow more space and air in there somehow. Mics are a tool that are a pretty big part arbiter of what energy the recorded source acquires. Klaus obviously is highly sensitive to this fact and has ways to make the things sound more relaxed, etc. I wish there were more people like Klaus and less people repeating 'a mic is just a mic'......

Myths work on people that have no personal experience of said mics. You and I have a different reality, as to me even a mic like a km84, km86, good old U87 and many more up the ladder very much create a magic space around the source material. But that's ok. Everyone has a different reality anyway. In any case, blanket statement of 'there is no magic in any mics' is just plain wrong. In my reality.
There are plenty of great sounding transformers on the market and plenty of firms that will custom wind transformers to exacting specifications. You don't need to recreate old transformers to make a sonically great and musically excellent sounding microphone. That's a myth. What matters most is great component selection and a great capsule -> which is hand tuned by ear by a master technician. There is no magic and no mumbo jumbo around the microphone - only the realities of the laws of physics.

I used to work in mental health, usually when someone had a different reality to everyone else's, that was a clear symptom of not taking one's medications.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3013


Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl777 View Post
I'm considering to buy this shock mount but what I don't understand is how its holding diameter can expand as needed to fit different mic sizes if it does not have a "binder clip" like lock? Could you please explain the mechanism that it employs to be able to fit different sizes of mic?
First off the efficacy of this holder is excellent. The mic is not going to fall out.

The mechanism holding the mic is the shock cord which is wrapped around the outside part and the circular middle part where the mic is. When the shock cord is run into/inside of the middle plastic parts slots, it holds the mic as it stretches across the inner circle reducing the internal diameter just enough to hold the mic. This is how the holder mitigates the conical radius of the mic so the larger and smaller part of the mic are held equally as tight.

It works great. As good as or better than the metal Octavia 319 mount I had it in before these arrived. The metal mount only grips the mic on the larger diameter part, leaving the smaller diameter part unsupported unless you wrap something else, like a fat rubber band, in there to make up the difference in diameter. I think the plastic one is WAY better than the circular metal one.

The one that 3u sells attaches at the bottom of the mic similarly to the way the "clip" that comes with the mic does.

I hope this helps.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3014


Quote:
Originally Posted by MYN View Post
It's a "C"-shaped double plastic (typical ABS) ring. It only holds the mic in place through it's own self tension, obviously with more grip when the ring is expanded by a mic wider than its natural diameter. The shockmount bands do not aid grip tension because their placement is intended to pull the outer edges of the inner ring, so if anything, the bands slightly lessen the natural tension of the ring.

I bought one of these a long time ago when KV mentioned them. I had been using it on one of my other scissor booms because I missed out getting a second Aston Rycote at $64 and had been on the fence about getting another one when this one was working fine. And then last week, I built a microphone parts T-84 circuit into an old Apex 430 body (It's ok sounding, not gonna replace any of my 3u stuff) and when I went to slip the 430 into the mount inverted, it gripped it at first and then as I was about to plug in the cable, it fell out, head down onto a hard surface. Luckily, there was no damage to the mic but I took the mount out immediately and am ordering another Aston Rycote next week. If that had happened to a mic I really loved, and not some $250 DIY rig, I'd have been pretty pissed at myself for using that mount... so, caveat emptor.
I will keep an eye on this. Thanks. BTW, this is the reason I always (try to ) use a wrapper on the cord, so if the clip fails something else will be there to keep the mic from hitting the floor.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3015
Gear Addict
 
bringmewater's Avatar
 

Awesome response. I totally agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
There are plenty of great sounding transformers on the market and plenty of firms that will custom wind transformers to exacting specifications. You don't need to recreate old transformers to make a sonically great and musically excellent sounding microphone. That's a myth. What matters most is great component selection and a great capsule -> which is hand tuned by ear by a master technician. There is no magic and no mumbo jumbo around the microphone - only the realities of the laws of physics.

I used to work in mental health, usually when someone had a different reality to everyone else's, that was a clear symptom of not taking one's medications.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3016
Lives for gear
 
Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYN View Post
It's a "C"-shaped double plastic (typical ABS) ring. It only holds the mic in place through it's own self tension, obviously with more grip when the ring is expanded by a mic wider than its natural diameter. The shockmount bands do not aid grip tension because their placement is intended to pull the outer edges of the inner ring, so if anything, the bands slightly lessen the natural tension of the ring.

I bought one of these a long time ago when KV mentioned them. I had been using it on one of my other scissor booms because I missed out getting a second Aston Rycote at $64 and had been on the fence about getting another one when this one was working fine. And then last week, I built a microphone parts T-84 circuit into an old Apex 430 body (It's ok sounding, not gonna replace any of my 3u stuff) and when I went to slip the 430 into the mount inverted, it gripped it at first and then as I was about to plug in the cable, it fell out, head down onto a hard surface. Luckily, there was no damage to the mic but I took the mount out immediately and am ordering another Aston Rycote next week. If that had happened to a mic I really loved, and not some $250 DIY rig, I'd have been pretty pissed at myself for using that mount... so, caveat emptor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philsaudio View Post




I will keep an eye on this. Thanks. BTW, this is the reason I always (try to ) use a wrapper on the cord, so if the clip fails something else will be there to keep the mic from hitting the floor.

The following statement is not directed at either of you it's just for future readers. I have a Rycote as well as two of the cheapies. Yes the mic can "slip out" of the cheapies just like it could in many shock mounts when hung upside down. As Philsaudio said make sure to wrap your cables around the mic stand as extra security. I always, always do this anyway with expensive mics regardless of how securely the shock mount holds the mic.

Second is to measure or at least have a good idea of the mic body diameter and make sure it's a good "snug" fit, especially with the cheapy shock mounts. The two I purchased were primarily so I could leave two mics setup at all times on low profile stands out in the room so I don't anticipate removing them often.

But yeah the mics slipping "could" be an issue if the mic diameter is fairly narrow and the mic is hung upside down. If the mic is positioned right-side-up it would be almost impossible to fall out because most capsules are slightly larger than the mic body at some point.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3017
For what it is worth. The CM1 teal in the picture has been hanging like that for a few weeks so far.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3018
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEED78 View Post
There IS a email address on his website you can get him on - better pricing

Mk1/Mk1D - vaguely voiced on a vintage U87

Am sure he prob has already posted mic's to Canada

Enjoy
Thanks seed 78
Old 8th May 2016
  #3019
Lives for gear
 

Miscend wrote:

Quote:
I used to work in mental health, usually when someone had a different reality to everyone else's, that was a clear symptom of not taking one's medications.



Just when I thought I'd seen it all.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3020
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Re. microphone modifications by Michael Joly.

Dennis would say Joly mods microphones, but 3U Audio mics (and Stellar) are "pre-modded".
Which is the better starting point BTW.

I'll add that IMO the Joly mods are a bit um ... one-sided.
IMO there are better mic modders.

Finally, his behaviour on this here forum was such that he got banned.

Oh, and the price of a donor mic plus mod, if on par quality wise (!), won't beat the 3U Audio price.
Not clear on what you mean about "one sided".

IME, Joly does excellent work, but he has a different agenda sonically than many here. He has no intention of mimicking the classics as much he is going for a non hyped natural transparency. This can end up being close in some ways to the classics but ultimately different. Some might even prefer the Joly, if that quality is what you're after.

And just a reminder that he replaces the capsule with his own k47 style design that works better than the overly bright stock capsules with the stock electronics, that he then tweaks as well. And his head basket mod is not a small thing, though again, with the different goal of reducing internal standing waves and increasing transient clarity. Point being that his mods are not insignificant though they are often with different goals in mind than some.

I would guess that the comparison to the 3U mics would be an apples to oranges thing, though the 3U may well end up being a better value for many.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3021
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
There are plenty of great sounding transformers on the market and plenty of firms that will custom wind transformers to exacting specifications. You don't need to recreate old transformers to make a sonically great and musically excellent sounding microphone. That's a myth. What matters most is great component selection and a great capsule -> which is hand tuned by ear by a master technician. There is no magic and no mumbo jumbo around the microphone - only the realities of the laws of physics.

I used to work in mental health, usually when someone had a different reality to everyone else's, that was a clear symptom of not taking one's medications.
Again, you're missing the point. Of course great mics can be made with current materials, knowledge, techniques, etc.. The question becomes a totally different one when one is trying to reproduce the original exactly. This is where it gets tricky. There is absolutely nothing stopping great mics from being made that have little to do with copying the classics. They are just different. Reread my post #2969 for an attempt at a comprehensive explanation.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3022
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
I read his forum. Before I put my full response. What issue am I confusing and what is it exactly I am not understanding? Also I didn't say he was recreating classic mics, I said he "makes modern German mics sound just as good as the best examples of vintage German mics." A good example being the Klaus Edition Brauner it is by all means sonically just as good as the best mics out there.
Your sentence you quoted was preceded by this one that seemed to be an attempt at paraphrasing Klaus:

Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
There's nothing about these holy grail vintage mics that can't be recreated or reproduced.
This could not be further from his opinion. It is a completely separate issue from what he is able to do with mics either through refurbishing, modification or from scratch.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3023
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
Not clear on what you mean about "one sided".

IME, Joly does excellent work, but he has a different agenda sonically than many here. He has no intention of mimicking the classics as much he is going for a non hyped natural transparency. This can end up being close in some ways to the classics but ultimately different. Some might even prefer the Joly, if that quality is what you're after.

And just a reminder that he replaces the capsule with his own k47 style design that works better than the overly bright stock capsules with the stock electronics, that he then tweaks as well. And his head basket mod is not a small thing, though again, with the different goal of reducing internal standing waves and increasing transient clarity. Point being that his mods are not insignificant though they are often with different goals in mind than some.

I would guess that the comparison to the 3U mics would be an apples to oranges thing, though the 3U may well end up being a better value for many.
By one-sided I mean he always uses a K47 (last time I checked) for his LDC mods. Which BTW is (again, last time I checked) basically a Chinese usual suspect and AFAIK no one has yet found a difference between his and the OEM thing. But it's not a bad capsule per se. Extra quality control or testing? Maybe.
A CK12 style, for instance, goes well with a flat circuit, too.
And an electronically tamed K67 sounds different still (but may require deeper understanding of electronics) .

Also, he strongly believes in single layer baskets. That's fine, but it adds to the one-sided idea that I have. Yes, my opinion.
I'll grant him that the MXL990 has a sh!tty stock basket.

Samples never really impressed me, but I must confess I never had one in my studio. Which, I know, doesn't make my case any stronger.

It probably doesn't help that I didn't like his attitude on this forum at all. And I wasn't alone in this. (Understatement.) He got kicked out several times and then permanently. But after five years or so, maybe the door is open again?

It also probably doesn't help that I hang out among microphone builders and I have yet to meet one who takes Joly seriously. Again, not a strong argument from my own experience, but I'm just telling it as it is.

Of course it's not all bad news. And at one point he did seem to fill a hole in the market. But things change.

In this price range (and regardless, I guess) I'd much prefer mics that were built from scratch. Especially when the components are unusually good for the price. And with (capsule) flavours that really differ in essence.

BTW, I tend to agree with, let's say, 95% of your viewpoints. It's the details, if any, that we like to discuss. Which I enjoy.
This very topic might be one where we actually disagree and that would be fine, too.
In any case I hope this shines a better light on my earlier post.

Last edited by legato; 8th May 2016 at 11:44 PM..
Old 8th May 2016
  #3024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquertheblock View Post
The Joly mic won't help you. I had what he calls the fat boy I guess now, and his mics don't capture the low mids the way a 3u can. I know the samples on his site sound like they are SUPER close to a U87, but when you get one in your place it sounds like a different story and there is kind of a bit of fatiguing high end to them after awhile imho. They are good mics don't get me wrong, but they aren't really what I would call full bodied.

Have you tried a tube mic before? I had a friend that had a kind of thinner more "nassly" voice and a tube mic fattened him up good with a good in/out trans pre. What mic pre are you using? Have you tried something with an input/output transformer with the MkVI? What about tracking with some compression?
I currently use a mackie blackjack. Ive wondered if I need to dirty up the signal a bit with a pre amp like a golden age pre 73 or something. The blackjack is praised for the strong clean/clear signal strength but maybe with the brightness of the warbler6 its too clean and not helping my somewhat thinner voice. Its not too nasally, more just on the higher pitched/thinner side.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3025
Count me as Seven (?) for a try at the KM84
Old 8th May 2016
  #3026
MYN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
BY one-sided I mean he always uses a K47 (last time I checked) for his LDC mods. Which BTW is (again, last time I checked) basically a Chinese usual suspect and AFAIK no one has yet found a difference between his and the OEM thing.
From what KV told me, the capsule Joly uses is this one.

Aliexpress.com : Buy 2016 New Microphone 34mm Large Mylar Capsule Diaphragm Condenser Double sided M7 K47 K49 K87 Mount for Neumann DIY Replacement from Reliable mount microphone suppliers on WGT Int'l Co., Ltd.

I went back to the PM from Dennis and this is exactly what he said when I sent him the link to ask him if he knew about these capsules.

"That is a Ningbo TongXin K47-style capsule...it is the same capsule that Michael Joly used for many of his mods, and it's the same capsule sold by microphone-parts.com (dual-sided with brass retaining rings instead of the white composite/plastic rings)...it's a decent capsule for modding purposes, though a touch bright/edgy...I had one in my U47 clone before replacing it with a higher-quality capsule."

So, it appears unlike someone like Guosheng or Ben Sneezby (or the high end cap makers like Eric Heiserman), Mr. Joly's just using an off the shelf Chinese mass produced replacement. I've purchased a couple of these for mods and they're ok, (Dennis was right, they are bright) but I'm not using any of the mics I've done with these capsules for work.

But again, it speaks to the type of mic you get with 3U, when the capsules are hand built and tuned by an expert. Like many, when I started looking around the web to feed my mic information jones, I saw the Joly mics and his description of his "capsule" and thought it was something he made. Now, I know better.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3027
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I've had a few Joly mics. They're nice, clean mics. Definitely an improvement over your typical stock cheap mic.

But since 3U happened, I don't have the urge to pony up for Joly stuff at all really.

It's kind of a lot of coin for what it is (the Joly mods). Which I don't begrudge at all. But knowing what's packed into a 3U mic and (more importantly) what they sound like, there's no comparison for me personally.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3028
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy View Post
I currently use a mackie blackjack. Ive wondered if I need to dirty up the signal a bit with a pre amp like a golden age pre 73 or something. The blackjack is praised for the strong clean/clear signal strength but maybe with the brightness of the warbler6 its too clean and not helping my somewhat thinner voice. Its not too nasally, more just on the higher pitched/thinner side.
Yes, a Neve style will thicken it up some.

But it's more like the icing on the cake.
Old 9th May 2016
  #3029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MYN View Post
It's a "C"-shaped double plastic (typical ABS) ring. It only holds the mic in place through it's own self tension, obviously with more grip when the ring is expanded by a mic wider than its natural diameter. The shockmount bands do not aid grip tension because their placement is intended to pull the outer edges of the inner ring, so if anything, the bands slightly lessen the natural tension of the ring.

I bought one of these a long time ago when KV mentioned them. I had been using it on one of my other scissor booms because I missed out getting a second Aston Rycote at $64 and had been on the fence about getting another one when this one was working fine. And then last week, I built a microphone parts T-84 circuit into an old Apex 430 body (It's ok sounding, not gonna replace any of my 3u stuff) and when I went to slip the 430 into the mount inverted, it gripped it at first and then as I was about to plug in the cable, it fell out, head down onto a hard surface. Luckily, there was no damage to the mic but I took the mount out immediately and am ordering another Aston Rycote next week. If that had happened to a mic I really loved, and not some $250 DIY rig, I'd have been pretty pissed at myself for using that mount... so, caveat emptor.
Thanks for the heads up on this shock mount! After what you've said, I might still buy this but I'd be wary of using it with smaller diameter mics.

What is the largest mic diameter that this shock mount can fit?
Old 9th May 2016
  #3030
MYN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl777 View Post
Thanks for the heads up on this shock mount! After what you've said, I might still buy this but I'd be wary of using it with smaller diameter mics.

What is the largest mic diameter that this shock mount can fit?
Just a guess, but I'm guessing anything more than 60mm or just above is probably on the outside edge of what you can do without putting too much stress on the inside ring.

I think if you put a Warbler/GZ/Cm in there and that's it, you'll be fine, but honestly, my usage of that mount was so short I couldn't properly say what the long term prognosis is.
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