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Affordable LDC Microphone With Multiple Voicings
Old 6th May 2016
  #2971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Maybe one day you will see someone recreating the exact sound of a good vintage 87 in a production model offering. If it happens it won't be anytime soon as it would indeed need some serious magic to make that happen...lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post

First of all, truly accurately reproducing the great capsules has been approached but never accomplished to the satisfaction of the cognoscenti. This is partly to do with expertise and sometimes with availability of exact materials. The K47 and K67 are still in production but no one but Neumann has succeeded in replicating Neumann's particular qualities, not being privy to their proprietary methods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post

A good example of a success story, is the Pulse Techniques Pultec clone, which is one of the very few pieces that deserves the name "clone" as it is exactly that, an extremely painstaking replica of the original, down to every possibly relevant detail. They spent many years in R & D. They are expensive but slightly less than the originals go for, and they are new with warranty. Indeed, many people are selling their originals and replacing them with the new ones. There are a few other products like that, but not many. The AEA R44 and KU4, are another, but they are much simpler to do right.
Do you know the reason Neumann doesn't make the U87, or other mics in the same original fashion? I believe the U47fet is an exact recreation. I've seen comments about Neumann not being the same company, and their mics are overpriced based on the name, but it seems crazy they themselves wouldn't want full reign on the market seeing as they can actually do it (in many cases).
Old 7th May 2016
  #2972
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Drumslinger wrote:


Five to one.
Six!
Old 7th May 2016
  #2973
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
Do you know the reason Neumann doesn't make the U87, or other mics in the same original fashion? I believe the U47fet is an exact recreation. I've seen comments about Neumann not being the same company, and their mics are overpriced based on the name, but it seems crazy they themselves wouldn't want full reign on the market seeing as they can actually do it (in many cases).
The general attitude at Neumann, which is now owned by Sennheiser, has been that they are interested in what they perceive to be improvements, rather than revisiting their past. In only a few instances have they reissued original designs, the aforementioned U47 Fet being one, and the U67 being another. I can't think of any others.

The newer U87ai is considered a technical improvement over the older circuit though there are many who favor the sound of the older version. It is a tradeoff of lower noise for higher headroom, but there are other subtler consequences. The TLM transformerless design again has some technical advantages over the older transformer coupled designs. Although there is certainly an enclave of pros who prefer the classic transformer coupled mics, the average buyer is either not so picky or aware, or might even prefer the more "modern" sound of the the newer circuit.

I'm not so sure their mics are very overpriced considering that they are made in Germany, rather than China, not to mention the sound of some of them, at least.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2974
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
You're missing the point. It's not that these things are truly magic, or that they are technically not reproducible. It is that the elements necessary to reproduce them accurately are inaccessible. The fact that you are unaware of this is a testimony to your ignorance of the specifics of the subject, which is what Karloff was pointing at, first respectfully, then in response to your own condescending tone. If you were to take this up with the 6 top classic mic experts in the world, they would all tell you the same thing.

First of all, truly accurately reproducing the great capsules has been approached but never accomplished to the satisfaction of the cognoscenti. This is partly to do with expertise and sometimes with availability of exact materials. The K47 and K67 are still in production but no one but Neumann has succeeded in replicating Neumann's particular qualities, not being privy to their proprietary methods. The original CK12 capsule, of which there are many consequent official but different versions, is perhaps the most elusive to replicate effectively. Though many have tried with varying success, again, none have succeeded completely in capturing the "magic" of the original. Transformers are similar. Replicating materials, designs and techniques is a lot easier said than done. Tubes are another matter. Some are plentiful and affordable, others extremely rare and prohibitively expensive. Reissuing the famed VF14 has been discussed ad nauseum and is out of the question, given the narrow market, especially considering the extreme quality control required to select the few with low enough noise to be useful for microphones. The other tubes that can be used in its stead simply don't sound the same in ways that are considered inferior, even though they may sound perfectly workable in their own right. The word "sexy" is often used to describe the "magic" of the original. The particular capacitors and resistors also contribute to the sound and are often impossible to get or elusive to replicate.

Regarding quality, there are three issues, as I see it. The "magic" referred to is just a word to describe the coalescing of many factors that contribute to some very particular sounds that many have come to know and love. And there is a lot of agreement that these qualities are "superior". New mics could of course be "better" in some way to some person in some context. There are two issues with that. One is just apples to oranges, the idea that what a person likes is purely subjective. There is nothing stopping someone from preferring a "bad" trashy sound. Plenty of music is made to be aggressively distorted, or affected in some way that creates a mood that has nothing to do with transparency or sweetness, etc... The other is that there are some objective qualities that have to do with fidelity to the source, or that if you want a brighter sound, for instance, that a brighter mic is simply a better tool for that particular job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
You confirmed my hunch with bells on. Do enjoy your logic beliefs. Maybe one day you will see someone recreating the exact sound of a good vintage 87 in a production model offering. If it happens it won't be anytime soon as it would indeed need some serious magic to make that happen...lol
Guys I've been following Klaus Heynes posts and interviews. He's one of the foremost experts on vintage German mics. Even Dirk Brauner and Neumann trust his opinions. There's nothing about these holy grail vintage mics that can't be recreated or reproduced. Klaus modifies modern German mics to sound just as good as the best examples of vintage German mics all the time.

A lot of this stuff is shrouded in myths. Possibly to jack up prices of vintage gear. At the end of the day a mic is just a tool. There is no mic that performs magic on its source material.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2975
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
Guys I've been following Klaus Heynes posts and interviews. He's one of the foremost experts on vintage German mics. Even Dirk Brauner and Neumann trust his opinions. There's nothing about these holy grail vintage mics that can't be recreated or reproduced. Klaus modifies modern German mics to sound just as good as the best examples of vintage German mics all the time.

A lot of this stuff is shrouded in myths. Possibly to jack up prices of vintage gear. At the end of the day a mic is just a tool. There is no mic that performs magic on its source material.
I haven't seen anyone be able to re-create the old transformers and their tone, so just based on that alone I will just have to disagree with you. Klaus as far as I know is no exception here, as I don't believe he re-creates any vintage parts but instead has developed ways of minor but very noticeable mods to Neumann mics that keep their overall character but allow more space and air in there somehow. Mics are a tool that are a pretty big part arbiter of what energy the recorded source acquires. Klaus obviously is highly sensitive to this fact and has ways to make the things sound more relaxed, etc. I wish there were more people like Klaus and less people repeating 'a mic is just a mic'......

Myths work on people that have no personal experience of said mics. You and I have a different reality, as to me even a mic like a km84, km86, good old U87 and many more up the ladder very much create a magic space around the source material. But that's ok. Everyone has a different reality anyway. In any case, blanket statement of 'there is no magic in any mics' is just plain wrong. In my reality.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2976
Gear Addict
 
bringmewater's Avatar
 

There may be magic in the way they sound but there is no wizard putting spells on them on the production line.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2977
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bringmewater View Post
There may be magic in the way they sound but there is no wizard putting spells on them on the production line.
The point was there is no easy way to make new ones with that same magic in the sound.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2978
So I currently own a warbler mk6. Great mic. Super clean and clear. I have a random question. Has anyone ever A/B'd any of Mike Joly's oktava mics against any of the 3u microphones? I am sorta tempted to pick up his "hulk 990" mic which is a mod of the mxl 990 microphone. It's his best seller and most popular for hip hop/rap.

The comparison clips of the mic against a u87ai are impressive but the mic is 430$. I am just wondering if I should stick to 3u mics. Especially if they are better and Guosheng gives us such a steal on cost with his microphones.

I am looking to add something to my mic locker but just not sure what to get. I have a tenor ish voice, slightly nasally but nothing that stands out, but more highs in my voice than lows. I do mostly hip hop/rapping. At the moment I just feel like the warbler 6 adds a bit too much air to my voice since I have more highs than I do low's in my voice. Would a darker mic like a warbler II be more fitting? My biggest fear with darker mics is losing that clarity and transient response. I tend to get very intricate lyrically and sometimes rap fast so I need all those lil fine details.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2979
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
So I currently own a warbler mk6. Great mic. Super clean and clear. I have a random question. Has anyone ever A/B'd any of Mike Joly's oktava mics against any of the 3u microphones? I am sorta tempted to pick up his "hulk 990" mic which is a mod of the mxl 990 microphone. It's his best seller and most popular for hip hop/rap.

The comparison clips of the mic against a u87ai are impressive but the mic is 430$. I am just wondering if I should stick to 3u mics. Especially if they are better and Guosheng gives us such a steal on cost with his microphones.
I know what Dennis would have said.
(I hope no one minds me saying this.)



Quote:
I am looking to add something to my mic locker but just not sure what to get. I have a tenor ish voice, slightly nasally but nothing that stands out, but more highs in my voice than lows. I do mostly hip hop/rapping. At the moment I just feel like the warbler 6 adds a bit too much air to my voice since I have more highs than I do low's in my voice. Would a darker mic like a warbler II be more fitting? My biggest fear with darker mics is losing that clarity and transient response. I tend to get very intricate lyrically and sometimes rap fast so I need all those lil fine details.
Too bright in position three even?

If too nasal(ly), I'd look at one of the edge terminated mics, like the Warbler IV.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2980
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
I know what Dennis would have said.
(I hope no one minds me saying this.)





Too bright in position three even?

If too nasal(ly), I'd look at one of the edge terminated mics, like the Warbler IV.
Yeah even in position 3. I wouldnt say too nasally. More just.....IDK, feels like its lacking weight/punch. Sounds fluffy and floaty. Im sure it does wonders with people that have really deep voices but idk. Any tips or advice? It's super clean and clear, its a great mic I just cant decide if it's whats best for my voice. Unless I am just doing something wrong lol.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2981
Lives for gear
 

How close are you to the mic?
Old 7th May 2016
  #2982
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
How close are you to the mic?
Generally speaking. 4-6 inches. I place my pop filter bout 4inches out from the mic and then I tend to stand maybe an inch or two away. Sometimes I get right up on the pop filter but I generally try and avoiding eating the damn thing lol. I also run a mackie blackjack usb interface, which is highly praised for its clean and clear/strong signal but could it be giving me a too clean of signal? Like I need to dirty it up a bit with a warm pre amp like a golden age 73 etc?
Old 7th May 2016
  #2983
Lives for gear
 

I assume you're in cardioid. (?)

Have you tried figure eight?
Old 7th May 2016
  #2984
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
I assume you're in cardioid. (?)

Have you tried figure eight?
I have the MK6 not the mk6d so it is cardioid only
Old 7th May 2016
  #2985
Lives for gear
 

Right.

Sample?
Old 7th May 2016
  #2986
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Right.

Sample?
Keep in mind, I am a self taught amateur engineer so it prob doesnt sound amazing or anything. None of these are raw but I could do a raw recording if needed.

soundcloud.com/defeatz/myworldintro

soundcloud.com/defeatz/lifeknowing
Old 7th May 2016
  #2987
Lives for gear
 

Wait, we had a similar discussion about a month ago, didn't we?
Save the Joly that is.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Wait, we had a similar discussion about a month ago, didn't we?
Save the Joly that is.
Did we? If we did I really apologize. Long story short, for about the last 5 months I had this abcess growing in me and I was really sick and out of it(just recently had surgery to get it removed, but all the meds they had me on turned me into a vegetable) . I dont remember alot of stuff. I guess what I am saying is I have been having repeat conversations with people.

What did we come to the conclusion on it? Like what was the solution? lol
Old 7th May 2016
  #2989
Lives for gear
 

Hey, that sucks man. Get well soon!

Anyway, if you're not completely happy with the MKVI, there's gonna be some solution I'm sure.
Last month I think I suggested a trade with someone who had a MKI that was too dark for him.
A MKIV might work too, though. Less "telephonic" if that makes sense. And plenty detail. Good lows, too.

You could also mail Guosheng. He can give some good advice and will likely trade without too much financial pain.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
Hey, that sucks man. Get well soon!

Anyway, if you're not completely happy with the MKVI, there's gonna be some solution I'm sure.
Last month I think I suggested a trade with someone who had a MKI that was too dark for him.
A MKIV might work too, though. Less "telephonic" if that makes sense. And plenty detail.

You could also mail Guosheng. He can give some good advice and will likely trade without too much financial pain.
Thanks man appreciate it! i am in recovery now. getting better day by day. Lemme ask you this::::

What is your opinion on the ShureSM7b? Ive read A TON of people praising the shiii out of it for it's use in the rap/hip hop application. I understand that it does lack that top end "air" but lots of people have said its easy to add post recording. Oh and the fact it needs a beefy pre amp to power it(At least 60db)
Old 7th May 2016
  #2991
Lives for gear
 

I'm not a big fan, but the proof is in the pudding.

Also, in an untreated room, the Shure has some advantage.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2992
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
I'm not a big fan, but the proof is in the pudding.

Also, in an untreated room, the Shure has some advantage.
Haha I hear you there. could you possible further elaborate on why you dont fancy the mic? I have a treated room so thats not an issue for me. When reading the reviews ppl praise it to a level it makes me wanna just impulse and buy one! lol. But I feel like theres gotta be a catch.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2993
Lives for gear
 

For studio vocals I would never pick a moving coil mic. Too slow and mushy.

OK, never say never. Perhaps something like a Sennheiser MD441 if I'm really desperate.
But no Shure for sure.
Sorry; couldn't resist.

That said, I'm a singer, not a rapper. There are similarities as well as differences.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2994
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philsaudio View Post
I got the plastic $4.59 shock mounts today, exactly 13 days from China to Atlanta GA USA..

Totally use able IMHO.

The unit is some kind of high impact nylonish plastic with the exception of the silver metal nut and bolt on the swivel adjustment and the brass sleeve insert on the part that attaches to the mic stand; and of course the bunji / shock chords that provide the shock absorbing. The shock cord actually touches the mic and in a way is responsible for the way the unit grips the conical CM-1

The mount is pretty light weight and there is no "binder clip" like lock on the part that holds the mic, BUT it grips the CM1-Teals conical like body like a champ. I tested it and it will hold the CM1 in the upright, sideways or upside down positions just fine. The plastic part that hugs the mic contours along the cone. I just pushed the mic in up to where it almost hits the mics switches.

When hanging it from an overhead stand/bar over the drums, it balances the CM1 nicely. The basket actually rotates more than 180 degrees maybe like 115 degrees each way. Makes it easy to tilt the capsule just like you need it.





I think this accessory is perfect for these incredible sounding "hundred dollar" mics.
I'm considering to buy this shock mount but what I don't understand is how its holding diameter can expand as needed to fit different mic sizes if it does not have a "binder clip" like lock? Could you please explain the mechanism that it employs to be able to fit different sizes of mic?

Last edited by mtl777; 7th May 2016 at 10:33 PM..
Old 7th May 2016
  #2995
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
Guys I've been following Klaus Heynes posts and interviews. He's one of the foremost experts on vintage German mics. Even Dirk Brauner and Neumann trust his opinions. There's nothing about these holy grail vintage mics that can't be recreated or reproduced. Klaus modifies modern German mics to sound just as good as the best examples of vintage German mics all the time.

A lot of this stuff is shrouded in myths. Possibly to jack up prices of vintage gear. At the end of the day a mic is just a tool. There is no mic that performs magic on its source material.
You are not understanding his posts at all, and confusing the entire issue. His astute preeminent opinion is exactly the opposite of what you say. He indeed does very highly tuned restorations and sometimes modifications of classic mics, but this has zero to do recreating the classics from scratch. Read his posts again more carefully. Do you read his forum?
Old 7th May 2016
  #2996
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarboy94 View Post
Thanks! Yes, I did bypass the pre's on the UH-700 to use the B173. I do like the B173, but it's also up for sale.
How do you bypass the pre's on the UH-7000? I thought the line in still goes through the mic pre circuit from what I've read?
Old 7th May 2016
  #2997
MYN
Gear Addict
 
MYN's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl777 View Post
I'm considering to buy this shock mount but what I don't understand is how its holding diameter can expand as needed to fit different mic sizes if it does not have a "binder clip" like lock? Could you please explain the mechanism that it employs to be able to fit different sizes of mic?
It's a "C"-shaped double plastic (typical ABS) ring. It only holds the mic in place through it's own self tension, obviously with more grip when the ring is expanded by a mic wider than its natural diameter. The shockmount bands do not aid grip tension because their placement is intended to pull the outer edges of the inner ring, so if anything, the bands slightly lessen the natural tension of the ring.

I bought one of these a long time ago when KV mentioned them. I had been using it on one of my other scissor booms because I missed out getting a second Aston Rycote at $64 and had been on the fence about getting another one when this one was working fine. And then last week, I built a microphone parts T-84 circuit into an old Apex 430 body (It's ok sounding, not gonna replace any of my 3u stuff) and when I went to slip the 430 into the mount inverted, it gripped it at first and then as I was about to plug in the cable, it fell out, head down onto a hard surface. Luckily, there was no damage to the mic but I took the mount out immediately and am ordering another Aston Rycote next week. If that had happened to a mic I really loved, and not some $250 DIY rig, I'd have been pretty pissed at myself for using that mount... so, caveat emptor.
Old 7th May 2016
  #2998
3000+ posts and over 100 pages!? Dennis would be proud.

3u for president. Move over Clinton/Trump.
Old 8th May 2016
  #2999
Gear Addict
 
Mulmany's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy View Post
So I currently own a warbler mk6. Great mic. Super clean and clear. I have a random question. Has anyone ever A/B'd any of Mike Joly's oktava mics against any of the 3u microphones? I am sorta tempted to pick up his "hulk 990" mic which is a mod of the mxl 990 microphone. It's his best seller and most popular for hip hop/rap.

The comparison clips of the mic against a u87ai are impressive but the mic is 430$. I am just wondering if I should stick to 3u mics. Especially if they are better and Guosheng gives us such a steal on cost with his microphones.

I am looking to add something to my mic locker but just not sure what to get. I have a tenor ish voice, slightly nasally but nothing that stands out, but more highs in my voice than lows. I do mostly hip hop/rapping. At the moment I just feel like the warbler 6 adds a bit too much air to my voice since I have more highs than I do low's in my voice. Would a darker mic like a warbler II be more fitting? My biggest fear with darker mics is losing that clarity and transient response. I tend to get very intricate lyrically and sometimes rap fast so I need all those lil fine details.
The Hulk is a great mic, very fast and full of detail. It would not be my first choice for vocals though. I use it for finger style guitar and when I want lots of detail. Thickening it is not.

I would try backing off the mic some more. My MKID is so sensitive I can't imagine being that close to the mic.
Old 8th May 2016
  #3000
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doom3crazy View Post
Thanks man appreciate it! i am in recovery now. getting better day by day. Lemme ask you this::::

What is your opinion on the ShureSM7b? Ive read A TON of people praising the shiii out of it for it's use in the rap/hip hop application. I understand that it does lack that top end "air" but lots of people have said its easy to add post recording. Oh and the fact it needs a beefy pre amp to power it(At least 60db)
Yep, that was a trade with me. I have an sm7b also, but the mk1 is worlds beyond that, as far as use and flexibility in a studio setting for me. I suffer from that upper-mid heavy and higher voiced tenor range that lacks low end too, and the sm7 is a great mic but it's dense -- and so is the mk1, but the sensitivity and wider range of the mk1 (with some EQ) makes for a much more polished sounding vocal.

Honestly, it's going to be a hard choice giving up the 6 for the 4 or 1, because I went through it too. I was convinced I needed to move on from the 1 to the 6 (or maybe the 4) because I didn't like how thick the initial/raw recording was, but with simple and slight EQing it sculpts a totally different sound; and more of what I was looking for. Because I have a higher range and more airy voice, starting with a thicker and more pronounced low end (sonically) mic, makes for a great finished product after some compression and EQ. I'm honestly glad you didn't jump on the trade and Gulsheng moved factories and gave me an extra month to sit on the mic before deciding. I haven't tried the 4 but knowing my voice and comparing the graphs, the 1 was the right mic for me after all
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