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Rane MS 1b
Old 14th September 2006
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Rane MS 1b

Hey how is the Rane MS 1b as a pre? Is it better than the DMP3 or vtb1?
Old 14th September 2006
  #2
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
To me it sounds about the same as a DMP3. Haven't tried the vtb1.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
so is it a good idea to purchase this as opposed to the dmp3? I will be using it for vocals solely. and it will be the ms-1 not ms-1b. would that make a difference? and will it meaten up my voice to sit better in the mix?
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #4
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mrbowes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
MS-1B has a Burr Brown op-amp (hence the B), so it will sound different than the MS-1.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbowes View Post
MS-1B has a Burr Brown op-amp (hence the B), so it will sound different than the MS-1.
Not true according to Rane (as of last week)!
They told me the only difference is the bracket hence the _b_.
Possibly the MS1a has a different chip but the MS1, unless it's a very old model, has the Burr-Brown ISA 2017 chip.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Hey how is the Rane MS 1 as a mic pre for vox? Is the Burr Brown chip bad or something?
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstclizzy View Post
Hey how is the Rane MS 1 as a mic pre for vox? Is the Burr Brown chip bad or something?

To some the Burr-Brown chip is preferred.
The MS1 is a fine preamp, no frills, but it works
well with a lot of mics.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #8
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mrbowes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Supply View Post
Not true according to Rane (as of last week)!
They told me the only difference is the bracket hence the _b_.
Possibly the MS1a has a different chip but the MS1, unless it's a very old model, has the Burr-Brown ISA 2017 chip.
Thanks for the clarification.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I have a Hamburg LDC. Would it make this sound better as opposed to what I have now. All I am using is a Tascam us 122. I will be upgrading but I just need something to make my vox sound better. The gain on the 122 is ok but it doesn't do anything as far as the vox. it just makes it louder to the point it makes that ring sound. Someone please help. Other pre's I have been looking at are the DMP3 and vtb1. I only need one channel. I get decent recordings but I know a pre will make it better. in this range though I am not expecting a dramatic quality difference. Just so it sits in the mix better and not sound as thin
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I would pick the MS1 or DMP3 over the vtb1. The vtb1 is a starved tube design if I'm not mistaken and the tube doesn't do much. I tried it once and it was okay but I haven't used it since. I've had good luck with both the DMP3 and MS1 in a pinch so those I can heartily recommend. Either unit is a step up from the Tascam 122.

If you up your price range a bit I recently aquired a Groove Tubes Brick for $285. used and I'm quite pleased with it.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
so if I were to get this then would I still need the Tascam? I currently use it to connect to my comp. Would I be better off getting the ms-1 and selling the Tascam and getting say a delta 1010lt?
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstclizzy View Post
so if I were to get this then would I still need the Tascam? I currently use it to connect to my comp. Would I be better off getting the ms-1 and selling the Tascam and getting say a delta 1010lt?
If you're using the INSERTS of the Tascam to use your compressor I guess it's okay but it would be better to connect directly from your pre to your compressor then to your DAW or converter if not.

Frankly if I could I'd get the Tascam out of the recording chain if possible.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstclizzy View Post
so if I were to get this then would I still need the Tascam? I currently use it to connect to my comp. Would I be better off getting the ms-1 and selling the Tascam and getting say a delta 1010lt?
You will still need the Tascam (or the Delta). The MS-1b is a preamp only. All it does is preamplify the mic to line level. It does not bring audio into your computer like the Tascam and the Delta. The Delta is an Interface- like the tascam except it installs on a card instead of using USB. Both the Delta and the Tascam have mic preamps on board but as "includeds", they probably have cut some corners.


That being said, the MS-1b is a decent preamp for the price- nice and clean and so on, most likely somewhat better than what you have built into your Tascam. But you will probably have to save up considerably more money before you get to the level of preamp that will add that "meat" to your vocals.

Maybe you can find an old Symetrix SX-202 on eBay, I find that to have a lot of "beef" for a budget preamp.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #14
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AlexLakis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Supply View Post
I would pick the MS1 or DMP3 over the vtb1. The vtb1 is a starved tube design if I'm not mistaken and the tube doesn't do much. I tried it once and it was okay but I haven't used it since. I've had good luck with both the DMP3 and MS1 in a pinch so those I can heartily recommend. Either unit is a step up from the Tascam 122.

If you up your price range a bit I recently aquired a Groove Tubes Brick for $285. used and I'm quite pleased with it.
The tube makes a big difference with the VTB-1. Changes the sound a lot. I use both the VTB-1 and the DMP3 regularly. They both sound fine. VTB-1 for dirtier stuff, DMP3 for cleaner stuff.

Never used the MS1, but I worked with a Sytek MPX-4Aii which had two channels of Burr Brown and I preferred those two channels over the two stock channels, so you might consider the MS1B if you're going that route.

The Brick suggestion is worth considering as well.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks all. I will probably go with the Rane and begin recording artists until I can get something reasonably better such as an RNP or Grace 101. Or would that be too far ahead to wait.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstclizzy View Post
Thanks all. I will probably go with the Rane and begin recording artists until I can get something reasonably better such as an RNP or Grace 101. Or would that be too far ahead to wait.
That's probably a good, inexpensive place to start.

Later on when you have a bit more $$ think about the RNMP
or Brick both of which I've used and can recommend.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I can mix down pretty well so would the Rane way make my vocals stand out a little more as opposed to just using the Tascam pre's. Power the ones you use are they the M-1b's. Check me on myspace under
http://www.myspace.com/f1stclassF1stclass
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstclizzy View Post
I can mix down pretty well so would the Rane way make my vocals stand out a little more as opposed to just using the Tascam pre's. Power the ones you use are they the M-1b's. Check me on myspace under
http://www.myspace.com/f1stclassF1stclass
I would think the Rane's would give you more gain and more detail than the Tascam.
A few years ago Roger Nichols did a preamp shootout and the Rane
was in the top three regardless of price. Eric Shilling (Miami Sound Machine, etc.) discovered the same.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
What were the other two pre amps that he preferred with it?
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstclizzy View Post
What were the other two pre amps that he preferred with it?
I'm pretty sure the other two or three pre's he preferred were big dollar items, like over $1200. I think the Great River was one of them.

The RNMP wasn't tested 'cause it wasn't out at the time.
I think you might be able to Google and find the paper
on it somewhere. That's where I read it. Used to be at Roger Nichols'
site or something.
Old 14th September 2006 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
i have a VTB-1 in addition an a rane ms-1a. i think that you could get acceptable results with either. i've never used the rane for vocals, but i have used the VTB-1 and it did a fine job on the vocalist.

the toob on the vtb-1 is an effect and needs to be treated as such. it really can make a big difference on the track. in fact, i personally feel that the vtb1 is a little "sterile" sounding without at least a little bit of the toob.

but if you can wait a little bit and save to ~$200 instead of $100, you'd be VERY well served tracking down a used Symetrix 528 or something similar. quite an upgrade over the rane and vtb1, IMO, and not for a whole lot more $$.


cheers,
wade
Old 15th September 2006 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
What about a Symetrix 302? Seems pretty cool and it was on ebay for a really good price used.
Old 15th September 2006 | Show parent
  #23
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moon_unit's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Supply View Post
Not true according to Rane (as of last week)!
They told me the only difference is the bracket hence the _b_.
Possibly the MS1a has a different chip but the MS1, unless it's a very old model, has the Burr-Brown ISA 2017 chip.

Oh boy. There is no such thing as an ISA 2017. heh There is an SSM2017 by Analog Devices, which is not a Texas Instruments / Burr Brown product. And it's been discontinued, by the way.

The INA217, which is a direct replacement, is made by TI / Burr Brown. You can't find these in any of the Rane products, by the way.

The INA163 is used in the MS1B. This one is also a TI/Burr Brown amplifier. Just so some of you know ... It is a totally different componenet, and used in a completely different way than the "burr brown" opamp used in some of the Syteks. The INA163 happens to be a very good amp chip ... and a lot of TI's product, in general, tends to be good. But I wouldn't get all gitty just because something says "Burr Brown." It's just the name of a company, and not everything they make is going to be good, just because it comes from their factory.

.
Old 15th September 2006 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by moon_unit View Post
Oh boy. There is no such thing as an ISA 2017. heh There is an SSM2017 by Analog Devices, which is not a Texas Instruments / Burr Brown product. And it's been discontinued, by the way.

The INA217, which is a direct replacement, is made by TI / Burr Brown. You can't find these in any of the Rane products, by the way.

The INA163 is used in the MS1B. This one is also a TI/Burr Brown amplifier. Just so some of you know ... It is a totally different componenet, and used in a completely different way than the "burr brown" opamp used in some of the Syteks. The INA163 happens to be a very good amp chip ... and a lot of TI's product, in general, tends to be good. But I wouldn't get all gitty just because something says "Burr Brown." It's just the name of a company, and not everything they make is going to be good, just because it comes from their factory.

.
Sorry, I realized I typed before coffee yesterday.
You are right, it is indeed the INA163 and you are also right;
it isn't good just because it's "Burr-Brown". AD makes great stuff too.

BTW:The INA217 and SSM2017 are both great chips as chips go.
Old 15th September 2006 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
moon_unit's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Supply View Post
Sorry, I realized I typed before coffee yesterday.
You are right, it is indeed the INA163 and you are also right;
it isn't good just because it's "Burr-Brown". AD makes great stuff too.

BTW:The INA217 and SSM2017 are both great chips as chips go.
Most of the guys on Rec.audio.pro seem to universally hate that particular chip, citing it's unusually high amount of high frequency distortion in the audible ranges (The INA2017 is used in the Rane MS1 btw).

The INA217 performs much better in that regard, and happens to be a drop-in replacement. Considering that all of the opamps are socketed, one of the easiest and inexpensive ways one might go about getting a really good-sounding mic pre on the cheap would be to pick up a used MS1 off ebay for the 20 bucks or so they go for ... then order a couple of free samples of the INA217 from TI and pop one of them in there. Essentially, it would be almost like upgrading your ms1 to an ms1b.

.
Old 15th September 2006 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by moon_unit View Post
Most of the guys on Rec.audio.pro seem to universally hate that particular chip, citing it's unusually high amount of high frequency distortion in the audible ranges (The INA2017 is used in the Rane MS1 btw).

The INA217 performs much better in that regard, and happens to be a drop-in replacement. Considering that all of the opamps are socketed, one of the easiest and inexpensive ways one might go about getting a really good-sounding mic pre on the cheap would be to pick up a used MS1 off ebay for the 20 bucks or so they go for ... then order a couple of free samples of the INA217 from TI and pop one of them in there. Essentially, it would be almost like upgrading your ms1 to an ms1b.

.

To beg to differ:The chip in the MS1 is either the BB INA163 or the AD SSM2017.
Touche?heh

Your quote:"The INA217, which is a direct replacement, is made by TI / Burr Brown. You can't find these in any of the Rane products, by the way."

Chips can get crazy, no?
Old 15th September 2006 | Show parent
  #27
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moon_unit's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The SSM 2017 by Analog Devices is (was) used in the MS1.

The TI/Burr Brown INA163 is used in the MS1B.
Old 15th September 2006 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by moon_unit View Post
The SSM 2017 by Analog Devices is (was) used in the MS1.

The TI/Burr Brown INA163 is used in the MS1B.
Exactly. I wasn't being a twit but
you contradicted that in your previous post.
Old 15th September 2006 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by moon_unit View Post
The SSM 2017 by Analog Devices is (was) used in the MS1.

The TI/Burr Brown INA163 is used in the MS1B.
P.S.-Again, according to Rane so we can stop the rumor madness,
the _b_ in ther MSIb refers to the brackets, not Burr-Brown.

According to Rane some MS1's will also have the INA163.
You have to open them up and look.
Old 15th September 2006 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
moon_unit's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Supply View Post
Exactly. I wasn't being a twit but
you contradicted that in your previous post.

Can't recall ever contradicting that (you still can't find any INA217s in any of the Rane products), but whatever. heh We're cool. Didn't realize some of the ms1s had the 163's. Interesting. That one is still, in my opinion, the best all-in-one Instrument amp of it's type on the market.
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