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What can $10K get you? Condenser Microphones
Old 11th May 2006
  #1
Gear Head
 
GetAural's Avatar
 

What can $10K get you?

I'm asking because a friend of mine has $10k and wants to build a home studio.

I told him to get the following, it's like $2k more but is it worth it?

2GHz Dual-Core PowerPC G5
Digidesign Digi 002 Rack Factory Bundle
Apogee Rosetta 200
Neumann TLM 103MT
Rupert Neve Designs 5012 Duo Mic Preamp
Purple Audio MC77
Dynaudio BM 5A
Sony MDR-7506
ART HeadAMP
Auralex MAX-Wall 831

He's a rapper. Have any better suggestions?
Old 12th May 2006
  #2
Gear Addict
 
StefanColson's Avatar
 

I'd go with different headphones. My reccomendation would be Sennheiser HD280s.
Also, there are better choices than the TLM103 in that price range IMHO. Look at the Soundelux U195, Peluso mics, Audio Technica AT4060, or something from Gefell. Other than that, it's all really splitting hairs (as it is with the mics as well). He should probably listen to some mics with his voice before buying.
Old 12th May 2006
  #3
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Is he a MAC user already?

Does he desire to have PT as a platform?

War
Old 12th May 2006
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
I hope I do not get flamed for this but for starting off I would not go with a converter like an Apogee Rosetta 200. Heck yes they are nice, I have the AD16 but it took years to get to the point that a high end converter made a BIG difference in the sound. I would put that money at the acoustics which will provide an instant difference in the recordings and cost about half as much.

Glenn
Old 12th May 2006
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
davenutz's Avatar
 

for a home studio, right off the bat, i think an MC77 is probably going to go unused for a little while....TLM103=eh, i would probably buy a 4060, U195, perhaps a SolidTube or 414...but to each their own. Same thing with headphones, have your friend try out a few pairs and see what he likes. I personally cant stand 280s or k240s, and the opposite is true for many people.
Monitors are a personal thing as well.

You also must factor in studio furniture, cabling, and misc acoustic treatment, which will most probably be needed.
Old 12th May 2006
  #6
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

why ProTools? also, he'd need a Display for that G5. He'll probably want a subwoofer too

for what he's doing, i'd probably push PT to the side, get a Metric Halo ULN-2 and the DAW of his choice. (DAW ranging from $400 to $600, can find Logic Pro used for $600). ULN-2 is 2 preamps, killer converters, 4 analog outs. Great mixing/routing software for setting up headphone mixes too. I recorded a poetry slam last night with the ULN-2 and used a $300 ADK Vienna mic. That pre/converter made the Vienna sound like mics 3x the price.

The ULN-2/DAW combo alone would cost about as much as an 002R/Bundle. And it would also negate the need for an outboard preamp, and an outboard converter. So it saves another $3500 in his budget that way.

I'm not a TLM 103 fan. I'd rather go with a Red Type B Body and chose a capsule that fits his voice the best ($1100 total)

2GHz Dual-Core PowerPC G5, 1GB RAM + 20" Cinema Display
Metric Halo ULN-2
Red Type B + B? Capsule
Purple Audio MC77 (might want to consider dropping this for some URS eq/comp plugins)
Dynaudio BM 5A
KRK RP10s Subwoofer
Sony MDR-7506
ART HeadAMP

that comes to about $9k.
spend a couple hundred on cables/stands, and the rest on Acoustic Treatment.
Old 12th May 2006
  #7
Gear Nut
 
gear chick's Avatar
 

I'm going from memory here.

-Roland 2480 ($3,400)
-masterlink ($8,00) could do it on the 2480, but I love the Masterlink and it offers some safety.
-mackie HR824s ($1,200)
-pod ($300)
-sansamp bass driver ($199)
-Shure KSM 44 ($700)
-AT4050 ($650)
-2 Crown CM 700s ($400)
-Sennheiser 602 ($185)
-3 sony MDR 7506 headphones ($300)
-Mogami snake ($425) gets you to all the cool acoustic enviroments in your studio.

This set up isn't that slutty and yields excellent results. I'll have a ten song sample in a couple of months.

If he's a rapper, he in no way needs a Neve preamp or apogee conversion IMO.
Old 12th May 2006
  #8
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gear chick

If he's a rapper, he in no way needs a Neve preamp or apogee conversion IMO.
Neves are a really popular pre for rap vox..paired up with 57's, SM7's, U87's, etc.
Old 12th May 2006
  #9
Gear Head
 

Re: What can $10K get you?

In California $10K will get you about 3 tanks of gas, but....in Vegas $10K will get you 200 $50 rolls of quarters for the slots.



Sorry I just couldn't help myself.
Old 12th May 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 
macr0w's Avatar
 

A good start.
Old 13th May 2006
  #11
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by macr0w
A good start.
In recording full bands I'd agree.

Rap? A midrange interface, decent pair of monitors, good preamp / compressor and a good mic and you're pretty much done.

It's talking.

I can think of 3 el cheapo mics that would make up an excellent "collection" to handle about any voice.

ADK Vienna (nice present sound, clean mids)
CAD M179 (flat response, poor man's 414 kind of thing)
E/V RE20

Any engineer could handle any rap owning those 3 mics, new $1000.

An RME Fireface would be a good interface, because the converters are nice but it also has SPDIF / TOSLINK as well for use with Motif's and other sources / samplers etc.

A pair of Tannoy Precision 8D would deliver plenty of nice bass etc for monitors and lots of nice clarity.

A Safe Sound Audio P1 would handle preamp and compression / limiting duties like a champ.

That leaves thousands for room treatment, cables, a nice mic stand etc.

But the whole thing could be done 90% of the way for even half that budget, if somebody with skill engineers it. Of course on any budget that's the key!

War
Old 13th May 2006
  #12
Gear Nut
 

you should ditch the g5 and go with an imac, one of the intel imacs. save yourself some money that you could better spend on a mic and micpre instead of a g5 and a monitor for it.

and something like the tascam fw-1884 might be a good idea too. 10k? you could do it all for 5k.
Old 13th May 2006
  #13
Lives for gear
no studio at all

Find other folks who have dropped hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars into their studios and rent them and their studio for $50-$75 an hour. Put the $10K into a decent mutual fund with check writing priviliges. Everyone wins, except the gear pimps.
Old 13th May 2006
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Alexi's Avatar
 

PC
Samplitude (Edu versionheh )
Adam p33


1x Fireface 800
1x Distressor
1x Pacifica


URS API & Neve EQ Plugs


Pearlman TM1 or Gefell mt71 s

sony cans

.......i might be a bit over budget
Old 13th May 2006
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Okay.. I've stayed away from macs.. so I don't know whats best to get there..

but for a good rap chain.. I'd be going something along these lines.. (I'm assuming he only needs 1 channel of in..

Cubase sx 3
Lynx22
Adam Anf-10 monitors
T-amp
(perhaps some sort of sub.. but I've never realy looked into good subs for monitoring..so I can't realy help you here)
SM7b (if the sm7b doesn't suit his voice.. or he wants a condenser U195)
Great river mp1-nv
FMR RNLA
Sony MDR-7506
ART HeadAMP
URS plugins

I havent added that up.. but I'm pretty sure it comes in well under budget.. even with a sub
Old 13th May 2006
  #16
Gear Addict
 
UPRYZ's Avatar
[QUOTE=gear chick]
If he's a rapper, he in no way needs a Neve preamp or apogee conversion IMO.
[QUOTE=gear chick]

On what basis do you make this statement? From experience making high quality hip-hop recordings?

Just like about 75% of great sounding vox recorded in high dollar studios - that would be THE chain.

Dan Fox
Old 13th May 2006
  #17
Lives for gear
 
AdamJay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus13
Find other folks who have dropped hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars into their studios and rent them and their studio for $50-$75 an hour. Put the $10K into a decent mutual fund with check writing priviliges. Everyone wins, except the gear pimps.

i like the way you think, Rufus.
Old 13th May 2006
  #18
Gear Addict
 
UPRYZ's Avatar
[QUOTE=warhead]

>Rap? A midrange interface, decent pair of monitors, good preamp / compressor and a good mic and you're >pretty much done.
>
>It's talking.


I beg to differ. Its not talking - Hip Hop vox will be a lot hotter, can be very dynamic, can switch freely between staccato transients and sing songy types of deliveries - and like every thing else a rap vocal will benefit from a great front end and monitoring.

It just seems sort of dismissive to say "well its just talking so you only need mediocre gear"...

Maybe you're just not a fan of the genre or haven't done much work in the studio with quality hip-hop artists.

Dan Fox
Old 13th May 2006
  #19
Lives for gear
 
DontLetMeDrown's Avatar
 

Can a rapper be without an Avalon 737? Isn't that like blasphemy for them?
Old 13th May 2006
  #20
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UPRYZ
I beg to differ. Its not talking - Hip Hop vox will be a lot hotter, can be very dynamic, can switch freely between staccato transients and sing songy types of deliveries - and like every thing else a rap vocal will benefit from a great front end and monitoring.

It just seems sort of dismissive to say "well its just talking so you only need mediocre gear"...

Maybe you're just not a fan of the genre or haven't done much work in the studio with quality hip-hop artists.

Dan Fox
Dan, don't misunderstand my words. I'm not downing the genre, I'm saying any engineer with any skill whatsoever can capture a guy rapping, which is for the most part, talking. Sometimes louder and angry, but it's mostly talking.

It's a one mic gig. It's not complicated. There are talented rappers around for sure, that wasn't my point.

It's super easy to engineer, and doesn't require $10k worth of stuff to get a great signal into a computer / recorder.

War
Old 13th May 2006
  #21
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilioMJunior
I'm asking because a friend of mine has $10k and wants to build a home studio.

I told him to get the following, it's like $2k more but is it worth it?

2GHz Dual-Core PowerPC G5
Digidesign Digi 002 Rack Factory Bundle
Apogee Rosetta 200
Neumann TLM 103MT
Rupert Neve Designs 5012 Duo Mic Preamp
Purple Audio MC77
Dynaudio BM 5A
Sony MDR-7506
ART HeadAMP
Auralex MAX-Wall 831

He's a rapper. Have any better suggestions?
Apple G5
23" monitor
Digidesign Digi 002 Rack Factory Bundle
API A2D
2 x Distressors
Sony SM7 &/or RE20
Blue Sky Media Desk 2.1
Sony MDRv700
IKEA Jerker Desk
KK Audio 6 space rack

That would be a great home setup for a rapper! If he has a vocal booth or wants to get a condenser, I would recommend the Peluso 22 47LE...
Old 13th May 2006
  #22
Gear Addict
 
UPRYZ's Avatar
>[QUOTE=warhead]I'm saying any engineer with any skill whatsoever can capture a >guy rapping, which is for >the most part, talking. Sometimes louder and angry, but >it's mostly talking.

... or whispery/breathy or half singing half rapping or...

>It's super easy to engineer
>[QUOTE=warhead]

I hear what you're saying, but still think thats a major oversimplification. Any engineer with any skill whatsoever can capture... anything. That doesn't mean they're capturing it with great results.

Sure, with Hip-Hop you may not have to think about pitch (most of the time) but all the other skills (and gear) that go into making great recordings still apply. Acoustics, mic placement, mic/preamp choice, how much/little compression to use, what compressor settings to use, reverbs/delays, etc. You still may have to ride a fader, and eq and therefore still need quality monitoring to hear what you are doing.

Would you make the same statement ("It's super easy to engineer") regarding a snare drum or a tenor sax for example?

Dan Fox
Old 13th May 2006
  #23
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UPRYZ
Would you make the same statement ("It's super easy to engineer") regarding a snare drum or a tenor sax for example?

Dan Fox
Dan, I hope that you're not taking any of this personal.

Recording & mixing a guy talking loud, soft, angry, happy, horny, sad...over loops / beats / synths isn't anywhere near as challenging as fitting multiple guitars into a death metal mix while still being able to hear the vocal and drums.

In comparison to recording full bands, metal, rock etc, it's super easy to record and mix rap. If you are asking if recording and mixing a single snare drum or tenor sax and mixing it over loops and drum machine stuff is super easy, again by comparison to all it takes to record a full band, I would say it's easier.

It is what it is, you can get as complex during mixdown as you want with rap by automating effects / levels etc for sure! I'm sincerely not trying to take away from the "talent" side of things, there are as many great rappers out there as there are terrible ones...just like any genre!

You have to admit, it's the least amount of "rocket science" involved though.

War
Old 14th May 2006
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Matti's Avatar
Check Pearlman mics also and invest on acoustics!
Regards
Matti
Old 14th May 2006
  #25
Gear Addict
 
UPRYZ's Avatar
[QUOTE=warhead]

Recording & mixing a guy talking loud, soft, angry, happy, horny, sad...over loops / beats / synths isn't anywhere near as challenging as fitting multiple guitars into a death metal mix while still being able to hear the vocal and drums.

In comparison to recording full bands, metal, rock etc, it's super easy to record and mix rap.

[End QUOTE]

Ok, I guess we need to figure out what we're talking about here. You're talking about mixing, and Yes, I would definitely agree that 9 times out of 10 mixing a hip-hop song that uses loops and synths is easier than mixing a live band track.

But, your original post stated that if the OP's studio was for hip-hop they didn't need to spend on the best gear and could get away with more mediocre stuff. I guess the main point I'm trying to make is - regardless of your musical preference - if your goal is to track music (in theis case vox) of the highest quality then, money permitting, the best gear would be to your advantage. Granted you may need less of it - maybe one or 2 primo front end channels as opposed to racks full of gear to track bands. Thats all.

Dan Fox
Old 14th May 2006
  #26
Gear Nut
 

I can't help noticing some key info missing.

What are your friend's goals? Fun hobby? Decent demos? Worldwide sales?

And how does he create the tracks he raps over? Does he sample from scratch? Use libraries? Make bass-and-drum grooves?

If it were my money, I'd keep it really simple:

- Roland MV-8000 (MIDI + sampler + 8 stereo audio tracks with built-in fx, mic pres, mastering tools, CD burner)
- Mic
- Phones
- Monitors
- Cables
- Furniture

The MV runs $2K new ($1,300-$1,700 used). Depending on the particulars, he could be all done for $3K and put the rest in that mutual fund. This is the Low End forum, right?
Old 18th May 2006
  #27
Gear Addict
 
(DC)'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UPRYZ
Any engineer with any skill whatsoever can capture... anything. That doesn't mean they're capturing it with great results.
That's right, so if I want to capture the true essence of me ****ting in a toilet I want to make sure to have some great converters + clock, Pro Tools HD, a U47, and of course a 1073 Pre to start...

heh but anyway, I think by saying rap is "talking" and that the quality of the gear you are using doesn't really make that any better [which I feel is the direction warhead initially took with his statement] is pretty stupid. When you are making a song, you want it to be the best it can possibly be. If you can afford and are willing to spend money in a studio or buy your own gear, then that's what it's going to take to get that extra stellar sound.

However, regardless of what mics I'm using or whether im in 44.1 or 96, my bathroom noises will sound pretty "****ty".
Old 18th May 2006
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Kestral's Avatar
 

If I had $10K to play with, this is how I'd spend it:

MacBook Pro 15" 2.16 ghz - $2500
M-Audio Firewire Card w/Pro Tools M-Powered ~$500
Apogee Rosetta 200 - $1800
Brent Averill 1073 rack - $2550
Empirical Labs Distressor or Purple 1176 - $1500
Mackie HR824 powered monitors ~$1000
Rode K2 - $700
AKG K271 headphones
Old 19th May 2006
  #29
Gear Head
 
GetAural's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont
Apple G5
23" monitor
Digidesign Digi 002 Rack Factory Bundle
API A2D
2 x Distressors
Sony SM7 &/or RE20
Blue Sky Media Desk 2.1
Sony MDRv700
IKEA Jerker Desk
KK Audio 6 space rack

That would be a great home setup for a rapper! If he has a vocal booth or wants to get a condenser, I would recommend the Peluso 22 47LE...
Why the Sony MDRv700 and not the 7506 or 7509?
Old 19th May 2006
  #30
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilioMJunior
Why the Sony MDRv700 and not the 7506 or 7509?
They go louder and have better low end.
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