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What can $10K get you? Condenser Microphones
Old 19th May 2006
  #31
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dplitt
In California $10K will get you about 3 tanks of gas, but....in Vegas $10K will get you 200 $50 rolls of quarters for the slots.
Nice!

I'd also say that for $10K, he can record one HELL of a record & have a little dough left over for promotion.

Does he wanna' be an engineer or get his music out there to the masses?
Old 19th May 2006
  #32
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestral
If I had $10K to play with, this is how I'd spend it:

MacBook Pro 15" 2.16 ghz - $2500
M-Audio Firewire Card w/Pro Tools M-Powered ~$500
Apogee Rosetta 200 - $1800
Brent Averill 1073 rack - $2550
Empirical Labs Distressor or Purple 1176 - $1500
Mackie HR824 powered monitors ~$1000
Rode K2 - $700
AKG K271 headphones
I like this set up! Specialy for the macbook pro .. i want one badly!!! Instead of the apogee rosetta i would try the new api a2d looks like a bargain for converters and pre´s.
Old 19th May 2006
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
Nice!

I'd also say that for $10K, he can record one HELL of a record & have a little dough left over for promotion.
Are you sure ??? A hell of a record with a hell of a producer ? don´t think so.

If he is an artist though and not plans to engineer at his home for other people, i would to invest in recording somewhere else.
Old 19th May 2006
  #34
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
Are you sure ??? A hell of a record with a hell of a producer ? don´t think so.
Yeah dude.

VERY sure!

Not everyone out there charges $5-10K a song.

I've made plenty of records for under $10K all-in & that includes mastering with Brad Blackwood or some one on his level. Slippy's shop does the SAME thing & so does 'drumsound' aka Tony Oxide and I've got friends all scattered though NYC who make a living from making solid 'indie' records.

Welcome to the real world. Like it or lump it.

What it requires is that the artist has their **** together & is dedicated to making the record happen in a shorter period of time, maybe 30 days done in one-shot or big blocks or time...4 days here, a week there...rather then spending six months or a year on it.

Plus they have to trust whoever they hired to make it.

If they start trying to reinvent the wheel & start trying 5 bajillion different things in the studio they're gonna fall flat on their face.

Granted, the artist won't have a "name" attached to it but IF THE MUSIC IS GOOD & THEY BUST THEIR BALLS & make good choices to promote...it won't matter.
Old 19th May 2006
  #35
Lives for gear
 
nathanvacha's Avatar
 

I think the whole point of the "it's just rap, you don't need that big of a budget" thing is this:

-You need 1 (maaayybe 2) channels of a/d, instead of the 8-12 and up you need to seriously think about recording a band... (and you trade off quality for quantity)

-One track may sound good by itself with a mediocre front end, but once you finish tracking a whole band, a really nice pre (or several of them) stacks up tracks more nicely... cheap pre's sound bad when you have 30 channels of audio that went through them -- this is not a concern with hip hop

-yes, rap vocals can vary hugely from incredibly simple to amazingly complex, but not as much as a dozen projects in a row with different drummers who all have rediculously different drumsets, guitarists who are playing through who knows what, however many channels of backing vocals, different acoustic instuments (strings, woodwinds, percussion instruments... the list goes on)

The point is, you can do an absolutely stellar rap recording at a fraction of the cost of a whole live-instrument project. 10k is way more than necescary.

so my list would be more like:
-a good mic
-a good mic pre
-good keyboards, sound modules, softsynths, drum machines, whatever
-a small to mid-sized booth properly built from the ground up and treated correctly
-a computer that serves your needs (if all your beats/tracks are running/being processed itb, get a lightning fast computer... if not, get an imac or a dell)
-big great sounding monitors that can pump out tons of bass at high volumes (rappers seem to like it loud)

I realize this list isn't very specific (or slutty), but it seems like just common sense to me. ymmv
Old 19th May 2006
  #36
Lives for gear
 
AlexLakis's Avatar
 

90% of the time, when I'm told the session coming in is, let's say, rock, I'm mostly thinking about micing techniques, drum tuning, preamp choices, mic choices, baffling, to click or not to click, etc.

90% of the time, when I'm told the session coming in is hip hop, I'm mostly thinking about what to order for dinner.

No disrespect intended (all genres take specific skill to master,) that's just the way it is.

Oh, and if your friend all ready has a monitor and wants to go Mac, why not go with onna the new dualcore Mac Minis? I think they're compatible with LE system now, or should be within the next week or two. You can get one with 2 gigs of ram for under $1200, it's got more than enough power, and it's quiet!
Old 19th May 2006
  #37
Lives for gear
 
blackcatdigi's Avatar
Hmmm...

$2300 Realtraps mondo room kit
$5350 ADAM S3A
$600 Velodyne subs (X2)
$450 used Lucid DA96/24
$249 M-Powered PT
$79 M-Audio Transit
$499 used iMac G4
$99 Presonus Tubepre
$175 used FMR RNC
$99 insert chinese LDC here____
$100 cables

= $10000 aka 1 HipHop Studio in a box
Old 19th May 2006
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Kestral's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
I like this set up! Specialy for the macbook pro .. i want one badly!!! Instead of the apogee rosetta i would try the new api a2d looks like a bargain for converters and pre´s.
Thanks Jose. Will be interesting to read the reviews on the API converters. But my philosophy is this, buying API converters would be like buying a toaster from BMW. Yes, BMW is awesome for cars but they haven't proven themselves as (or have any evidence that they would be good) toaster makers.
Old 19th May 2006
  #39
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestral
Thanks Jose. Will be interesting to read the reviews on the API converters. But my philosophy is this, buying API converters would be like buying a toaster from BMW. Yes, BMW is awesome for cars but they haven't proven themselves as (or have any evidence that they would be good) toaster makers.
You're missing the point of the piece....

A better analogy would be that BMW is now making toasters WITH their cars!

The converter is good... there's not much else to say.
Old 19th May 2006
  #40
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus13
There are plenty of talented folks who are relatively unknown who would work for gas money+lunch+points to make a project fly for less than $10K in initial cash, assuming that they like the work, the artist, and believe in the potential of the artist.

Highly practiced artists can show up and crank out 4 songs with a few over-dubs in a day. If an artist/group is highly practiced, and can focus, they save tons of time/money in a studio.

By having money, the artist can buy his freedom from the (typical) initial contract. He can own his Masters, own his publishing, and license for duplication/distribution. By building an initial fan base, the artist has leverage with any record company, because there's less risk and more reward possible.

There needs to be a written contract, in case it all goes well. Plan for success.

Unknown producers will work for cheap, because otherwise they don't work in the music biz. After the first couple hits, they stop working for cheap, and get good fees + points on more-known artists. Gotta start somewhere.

The trick is: finding/engaging the "unknown producer" and riding the rising tide up together. Check the local Musicians Union.

Best wishes.

Karl
Almost exactly my point!

Thank you!

The only thing I'd change is the "unknown" producer part.

There are plenty of cats out there like E-Cue, Paterno & myself (among others) who've worked with some HUGE people & budgets to match but will also take on serious indie artists without blinking.

Typically those projects are more fun & artisticly rewarding...we don't have label mooks to report to & the artist has a lot more freedom then they would if it were attached to a label. Projects like that also have the potential to let the artist keep more money in their pocket & with the changing music business model that's only going to continue...

Besides, if we don't don't support the up & coming artists of today there won't be any NEW artists for tomorrow.

And furthermore...if this dude spent $10K on gear that other people have to pick out for him because he doesn't know what the hell any of it is...does he REALLY think he'd make a better record on his own then if he spent the $10K on hiring pros to make his record?

Just saying...
Old 21st May 2006
  #41
Gear Head
 
GetAural's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
Almost exactly my point!

Thank you!

The only thing I'd change is the "unknown" producer part.

There are plenty of cats out there like E-Cue, Paterno & myself (among others) who've worked with some HUGE people & budgets to match but will also take on serious indie artists without blinking.

Typically those projects are more fun & artisticly rewarding...we don't have label mooks to report to & the artist has a lot more freedom then they would if it were attached to a label. Projects like that also have the potential to let the artist keep more money in their pocket & with the changing music business model that's only going to continue...

Besides, if we don't don't support the up & coming artists of today there won't be any NEW artists for tomorrow.

And furthermore...if this dude spent $10K on gear that other people have to pick out for him because he doesn't know what the hell any of it is...does he REALLY think he'd make a better record on his own then if he spent the $10K on hiring pros to make his record?

Just saying...
Well the thing is, we already have an engineer. He's done alot of Hip Hop records, he's in no way Dr. Dre, but he has years in the game. He use to have a studio, but things happened, and he no longer has it.

As far as producers, we know alot of up and coming producers who like you guys said, will work with us.

It really just comes down to getting gear.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #42
Gear Addict
 
tedpenn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus13
A MUSICIAN, without aspiration to become a recording studio engineer/studio owner, has no business buying this much gear with his first/only $10K. Buying/funding a studio out of the first million in royalties? Sure, no problem.

Go find a studio for rent and make some masters. Pay hourly and don't waste time.

Musicians need to make music. Record some of it, license it, and sell it. Get out there on tour to play, self-promote, write/record more, and sell the product (you, the Music, and the disks/downloads).

If you feel the need to go to upside-down mil-spec soldering school, that's something else.

Karl
Well said Karl. I would suggest the following: Spend the absolute minimum you can on a cheap basic (and I mean really minimal- simply functional) setup that will allow you to get your arrangement/preproduction done on your own time. This would include working with beats, choosing parts, and even trying out vocal part ideas. Since most of your sounds in this genre (in general) are being produced by either soft-synths or keyboards/MPC's there's no need to go crazy with other gear for the basic track production.
When you're completely ready, take your tracks to a studio where you can record all of your vocals (and anything else live) in a great room with great gear. Likewise, mix the project in a professional studio with great gear/monitors/acoustics where you can be reasonably assured that you'll come out with mixes that will translate well.

The remainder of your budget is then available for promotion or whatever else will benefit your career.

Above all, the talent behind the songs/artists/producer and the engineer(s) will be the biggest determining factors in producing a great project and cannot be overemphasized.

As Karl mentioned, uless you intend to get into the business of producing/engineering recordings, your money as an artist can be much better spent in other places than $10k in recording gear. Know that I say this as a gear-addict, and although I'd like nothing more than to talk about gear and send you off to buy a truckload of it, I'd really be doing you a disservice if I did. Best of luck with your project!

Ted
Old 13th March 2007
  #43
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanColson View Post
I'd go with different headphones. My reccomendation would be Sennheiser HD280s.
Also, there are better choices than the TLM103 in that price range IMHO. Look at the Soundelux U195, Peluso mics, Audio Technica AT4060, or something from Gefell. Other than that, it's all really splitting hairs (as it is with the mics as well). He should probably listen to some mics with his voice before buying.
the HD280`s are ok for the talent to monitor with due to their rather snug fit pads and design, they are almost like wearing ear defenders which will help a lot to cut down on bleed when recording but they arent very good for checking mixes.

you`ve gotta be looking at akg k701`s or a set of the higher end grado`s if you want to use em for any type of proper mix checking.

by the way the hd650`s are also good but they arent quite as transparent as the akg`s or grado`s and i find that they colour the material ever so slightly.


if you want my advice go for the akg K701`s, and by the way i actually own and use the k701`s and the HD280`s. and have quite a bit of experience with the 650`s

i`ll keep my advice to a minimum as i`m new here.

what ever you decide about cans, opting for hd280`s over the sony`s is ridiculus.
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