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Guitar Cab Isolation Booth?
Old 8th May 2006
  #1
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JRo's Avatar
 

Guitar Cab Isolation Booth?

Hey All,

I've been reading the boards for a long time and finally got enough ambition to register and post something.

I have a small basement studio (complete with neighbors) and am looking at ways to record a loud Marshall without police intervention.

Does anybody use a guitar cab iso-booth? I'm debating whether or not to build one. Would the small space make for lots of comb-filtering and lifeless recordings?

I'm just interested in putting a 57 infront of this cab and recording at night.

Anybody have experience/suggestions?
building material suggestions/links?

-JRo
Old 8th May 2006
  #2
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This is why I got the Roland Micro Cube...for recording a guitar at night without disturbing the neighbors. I run a line out and it records nicely without blowing out my ear drums either.

If you insist on building an iso cabinet, stick around there's lot's of advice on these forums.

A while back, I even built one using an old Igloo Ice Chest for recording a small Marshall practice amp, which did work for me, but I like using the line out on the Micro Cube better.
Old 8th May 2006
  #3
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octatonic's Avatar
I use a Hermit Cab

Works great
Old 8th May 2006
  #4
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Mastering101's Avatar
i built one. i love the thing. i will attach a picture. When i first did a post here on gearslutz about the box i built a lot of people where telling me i would have a ton of issues with it. they said i would have all kind of bass issues and a boxy sound..
i don’t think any of those people had ever even used one because I didn’t have any issues like that.. one thing you will need is a hot plate because the box still will not be quiet enough for late night recording in a home. I use a triaxis or a psa1 into a mesa 2/90 power amp which is a monster of a power amp and it sounds killer.. maybe i can post some sound clips
Attached Thumbnails
Guitar Cab Isolation Booth?-box-11.jpg   Guitar Cab Isolation Booth?-box-33.jpg  
Old 8th May 2006
  #5
randall iso-cab with a vintage 30 works for me
Old 8th May 2006
  #6
mds
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Another good option: http://www.jlhproducts.com/axetrak/

You can crank the begezers out of this thing and barely hear it from 2 feet away.

Good luck,

Mike
Old 8th May 2006
  #7
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frontierfran's Avatar
 

.

sorry for the side note here, but hey everybody's X....how do you like your Topaz? I rather like mine a lot...did one session so far on it until it had to go in to get a couple channels fixed. dont think the talkback is working either...
but the EQ is killer, and the pres are usable, nice and toasty. cool board I reckon...
Old 8th May 2006
  #8
I absolutely love it, in fact it is my fourth one (hence why Im selling the maxi)
I bought the project 8 from a friend who bought a ghost and is already regretting it


I dont think you can touch it until you double (or triple) the price-range, my first experience with a mackie was after I had worked a few years on a topaz, I remember thinking "what the fck kind of cheap toy is this?"


Back on topic, I routinely cut full blast marshalls at 3am with an iso cab with no neighbor issues
Old 8th May 2006
  #9
Gear Head
 
JRo's Avatar
 

effectsnut:

What materials did you use? It looks like 3/4 inch plywood and some sort of foam?
Any idea on the db reduction you're getting?

Good advice on the hotplate, I've been meaning to pick one up for a while now.



I'm thinking I might go with the box inside a box idea with some rock wool, drywall and plywood.

Has anyone built something like this? Are there better materials I should look at?
Old 8th May 2006
  #10
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frontierfran's Avatar
 

JRo

i think you got it with a box inside a box and the rock wool. id add a couple of auralex 2x24x48 panels to wrap the inside with and i would very much imagine you'll have a pretty sweet box at that point.
Old 8th May 2006
  #11
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nathanvacha's Avatar
 

Yeah, aside from the construction mess, I think drywall should be your friend.
Old 8th May 2006
  #12
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slaves666's Avatar
I use a Demeter Silen Speaker with a vintage 30.
Attached Thumbnails
Guitar Cab Isolation Booth?-ssc.gif  
Old 17th June 2008
  #13
Here for the gear
 

The deadroom

I bought and sold the Grendel sound deadroom.
I looked on line trying to hear demos and only found the 1 demo from the
company, but there was nothing to compare it to. So here one man's opinion...it's about a 3 out of 10. It took a month to get (2wks more than anticipated). I tried my best to get a useable tone out of it because I really wanted it to work. Bottom line is that it's got a odd "boxy" tone to the cabinet. Maybe all of the other iso cabs are the same way or worse, I only bought the Grendel.(maybe the Hansel is better)
THE TEST: the main riff guitars are the only guitars I ran through the test. They were recorded into protools, direct, no amp, and reamped through a radial x-amp. the "cabinet" sample is a 4x12 marshall w/G12 celestions. The chain was exactly the same for both tests. It's the same performance for all examples. The Chain...Marshall6100 and Chandler TG2 a 57 and 609 for mics (dead nuts in phase). I originally got a vintage 30 to put in the Grendel, but thought it wasn't fair to compare 2 different speakers so I pulled out the exact speaker I mic'd in the cabinet and put it in the dead room. The amp and pre were set exactly the same. I did my best to eq some of the weirdness out of the grendel and make it match the cabinet. I even tried different master volumes to improve the situation, but with no luck. Hope these samples help someone out. What I've learned is that you cannot contain rock in a small box. It is a wild beast with fur, claws and medium sized pointy teeth that could really give you a bad infection and it must be set free!
Attached Files

Cabinet4x12wCelG12.mp3 (712.3 KB, 6215 views)

grendelVint30.mp3 (557.0 KB, 6137 views)

grendelTEST4_G12hiVol.mp3 (874.3 KB, 5698 views)

Old 17th June 2008
  #14
Baz
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Interesting. While I totally hear what you're saying, the differences between the 4x12 and iso cab are obvious - how could they not be? Apples to oranges.There was still something cool about the iso-cab clip though. It would depend on the material, but in these cheap headphones, I got a real Tom Morrello vibe from the iso clip, so I could see where that tone would work - especially as a complementary track.

I've posted in the Grendel thread awhile back.My buddy made his own cab and actually rarely uses it. When he does, it's with the lid open. He doesn't need total attenuation like some people, so the lid open is fine. But it still prolly attenuates 40 + % of the volume, in his closed closet.

I think for designs, the pic I posted of the Vrtacic designed cab is superior to all the others. Acoustical Design is John's gig and he's forgotten more about the subject than I'll ever know.

Also, IMHO, I don't think a V30 (or any low wattage speaker) responds well in these closed cabs, and would go for a higher watt speaker. But this might jsut be me, b/c I tend to like 65-75w speakers and the 200w EV in my MKIV.
Old 17th June 2008
  #15
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Mastering101's Avatar
I'm not trying to be an A-hole but i thought the 4-12 didn't sound that good to begin with...I hate the tone and wouldn't consider it dream tone.....what are you using for an Amp...I need to post some clips but I only have access to acoustic rhythms but with electric leads in a box similar to the one in my earlier post..Tg2
preamp bogners amps,engl, 609's for mic's...You know the 609's can sound boxy if you don't have them set perfect and i don't mean right on the cone either...I just looked back at your post it said you didnt use a amp? PS. The playing was great!!!

Last edited by Mastering101; 17th June 2008 at 07:50 PM.. Reason: put in a ,
Old 17th June 2008
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
BrettMorello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by effectsnut View Post
i built one. i love the thing. i will attach a picture. When i first did a post here on gearslutz about the box i built a lot of people where telling me i would have a ton of issues with it. they said i would have all kind of bass issues and a boxy sound..
i don’t think any of those people had ever even used one because I didn’t have any issues like that.. one thing you will need is a hot plate because the box still will not be quiet enough for late night recording in a home. I use a triaxis or a psa1 into a mesa 2/90 power amp which is a monster of a power amp and it sounds killer.. maybe i can post some sound clips
I have made something similar, but I have first attached a layer of 12cm rockwool inside the cab walls, put some plastic over it and then cover it with that black acoustic foam thingy.

I did it just yesterdar, and it only still consists of 3 sides: haven't closed the back yet and not sure if I want to keep the side open or not and how, regarding mic placement.

i did my first test recordings with a mic close to the grid (an EV Cardinal and an SM57) and oh yeah, the amp is a Fender Blues Deville. The first result are very satisfying, but mind you that I record in a very bad sounding room so the main purpose of building this cab was too the bad room sound. And that seemed to have worked quite a lot. A more focussed tone, and no longer the string rattle I get from my agressive playing and big plectrums.

The difference in volume is enormous! Although I still wouldn't play it at midnight (but now I can allready play later at the evening with the girlfriend watching TV in the same house). Once I cover the back and that last side, the sound isolation would off course be much bigger, the most sound leakage I get now is from that side.

So, if interested how I made it: just used some MDF I still had in my attic (although I think multiplex is a bit better), glued rockwool blanket on all the sides, put some plastic over it and cover it all with some of that egg shaped black foam. I would paste a picture, but the thing really does look ugly to be honest. I am not handy enough to make such things look good.
Old 17th June 2008
  #17
Here for the gear
 

response: effectsnut

Hey Ebert & Roper, did I say it was the best tone ever? No, it's just a track I could reamp and try to make the closest comparison for the folks gear slutz. It's for you to take in...hug it...cuddle and then take it or leave it. Not sure I follow amp thing...it was a Marshall 6100, hope that helps. Thanks for the compliment on the playing, but I didn't post this to
say "oooh, check me out (whiddly, whiddly, whiddly)" I had a bitch of a time trying to find out info on this box, so I'm just sharing.
We all know sharing is caring!
xoxo
Old 18th June 2008
  #18
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by salsabandit View Post
Hey Ebert & Roper, did I say it was the best tone ever? No, it's just a track I could reamp and try to make the closest comparison for the folks gear slutz. It's for you to take in...hug it...cuddle and then take it or leave it. Not sure I follow amp thing...it was a Marshall 6100, hope that helps. Thanks for the compliment on the playing, but I didn't post this to
say "oooh, check me out (whiddly, whiddly, whiddly)" I had a bitch of a time trying to find out info on this box, so I'm just sharing.
We all know sharing is caring!
xoxo
thanks salsabandit! that are really interesting clips. it's shocking how bad the grendel sounds in comparison. would be interesting to hear if all other solutions are equally bad? my guess is yes but who knows?
Old 19th June 2008
  #19
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Mastering101's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by salsabandit View Post
Hey Ebert & Roper, did I say it was the best tone ever? No, it's just a track I could reamp and try to make the closest comparison for the folks gear slutz. It's for you to take in...hug it...cuddle and then take it or leave it. Not sure I follow amp thing...it was a Marshall 6100, hope that helps. Thanks for the compliment on the playing, but I didn't post this to
say "oooh, check me out (whiddly, whiddly, whiddly)" I had a bitch of a time trying to find out info on this box, so I'm just sharing.
We all know sharing is caring!
xoxo
Ebert & Roper..LOL ..don't take offense...I thought you need good tone to get a good recording weather its in a box or not...If not why post it. what would be the point..You also need a good amp thats why i asked...If you don't put your best effort into this, how can you comment on a recording done in a sound enclosure..
or even post 1/2 ass tone...This is not a good representation so relax Oprah Winfrey..
Old 19th June 2008
  #20
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Mastering101's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettMorello View Post
I have made something similar, but I have first attached a layer of 12cm rockwool inside the cab walls, put some plastic over it and then cover it with that black acoustic foam thingy.

I did it just yesterdar, and it only still consists of 3 sides: haven't closed the back yet and not sure if I want to keep the side open or not and how, regarding mic placement.

i did my first test recordings with a mic close to the grid (an EV Cardinal and an SM57) and oh yeah, the amp is a Fender Blues Deville. The first result are very satisfying, but mind you that I record in a very bad sounding room so the main purpose of building this cab was too the bad room sound. And that seemed to have worked quite a lot. A more focussed tone, and no longer the string rattle I get from my agressive playing and big plectrums.

The difference in volume is enormous! Although I still wouldn't play it at midnight (but now I can allready play later at the evening with the girlfriend watching TV in the same house). Once I cover the back and that last side, the sound isolation would off course be much bigger, the most sound leakage I get now is from that side.

So, if interested how I made it: just used some MDF I still had in my attic (although I think multiplex is a bit better), glued rockwool blanket on all the sides, put some plastic over it and cover it all with some of that egg shaped black foam. I would paste a picture, but the thing really does look ugly to be honest. I am not handy enough to make such things look good.
I use hot plates, so i record until 4am sometimes..
Old 19th June 2008
  #21
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by effectsnut View Post
Ebert & Roper..LOL ..don't take offense...I thought you need good tone to get a good recording weather its in a box or not...If not why post it. what would be the point..You also need a good amp thats why i asked...If you don't put your best effort into this, how can you comment on a recording done in a sound enclosure..
or even post 1/2 ass tone...This is not a good representation so relax Oprah Winfrey..
the point was to post a sample so people could hear the difference between clips, with all of the factors the same except for the cabinet. I didn't know I was posting it so you could comment on the 1/2 assed tone. This wasn't a F***ing audition for "posting with the stars" And I got to know why you have a picture of the Gordon's fisherman? are you a fan of his fish sticks?
Old 19th June 2008
  #22
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Mastering101's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by salsabandit View Post
the point was to post a sample so people could hear the difference between clips, with all of the factors the same except for the cabinet. I didn't know I was posting it so you could comment on the 1/2 assed tone. This wasn't a F***ing audition for "posting with the stars" And I got to know why you have a picture of the Gordon's fisherman? are you a fan of his fish sticks?
For someone new to gearslutz you should really learn to relax and not take offense so easly... I just felt if your going to make some clips for people to compare that it should be done right...when i heard the clips it sounded like something was NOT right.Could be mic placement I don't know.Whats the front-end of your recording system? converters? preamps?etc..don't be so uptight life is to short...Gordons fisherman i have no clue about that....If your mad because your tone suffers don't lash out at me. I would rather help you out...If your in love with your tone fine don't make it personal...
Old 23rd June 2008
  #23
Gear Addict
 
drummerboy1533's Avatar
 

Effectsnut built himself a nice iso-booth! I just completed the same thing using 3/4 plywood(should have used MDF particle board which won't resonate as much).I made it aprox 2X2X4 feet lined with owens 703 wrapped in burlap.I also incorporated the second speaker cable to be phase reversed in order to use two identical cabinets facing each other with an R121 inbetween(Royer Labs utilized this mic technique on their website).I chose Weber Alnico's 8in @ 15watts.One is the earlier breakup cone.I just started to experiment with seperate amps on each cabinet.Lots of fun experimenting! Otherwise,just a single cab with the R121 and SM57 throught a Little Labs IBP. Trying with a THD Univalve amp, plus hotplate, Epiphone Valve JR or Torres Tinytone......just so much tweaking to find a favored combo...then there's the other million mics to try out.Go to AMPTONE.COM and find some cool advise.
Old 19th November 2008
  #24
Hi guys, just an exemple of recording with an isocab I made:

MySpace.com - Death by Electro - Lille, FR - www.myspace.com/deathbyelectro4propaganda

1X12V30 Orange in my isocab->sm7+sm57->gtq2->Duet->no eq/comp

Hope it helps to see what kinds of results you can have...
Old 19th November 2008
  #25
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doncaparker's Avatar
 

Call me a heretic, but unless you are hell bent to record a specific amp, I think that one of the software amp sims will accomplish the goal better than putting your amp in a box (sounds a bit like that Justin Timberlake SNL bit doesn't it?).

The goal is to get good tone without pissing off the neighbors, right? It sure sounds from this thread, and others I have read here, that the iso boxes compromise the tone. Why not put that money into buying one of the better amp sims?

I use Peavey ReValver III, and I really like it. It is way better than the others I have tried. If you can afford it, Amp Farm gets good reviews, too.

OK, you can start throwing rotten vegetables.
Old 19th November 2008
  #26
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skiltrip's Avatar
In my old apartment, I used to lay my Hot Rod Deville 4x10 on it's back on my couch, speaker facing up, Mic'd it normally, made sure the stand was tightened very well, and piled jackets and blankets over the amp and over the microphone.

It sounds crazy but it always sound real good.
The couch deadened all the sound coming out the back and the blankets and jackets and stuff did a fine job of absorbing everything pumping outta the front.
Old 19th November 2008
  #27
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I've got a really awsome iso booth for electric guitars.

It's ahearing test booth that the refineries locally use to test workers and we snagged it. It's basically twice the size of two large deep freezers, made of metal and probably drywall in between.

A while ago I asked about the sonic downside to using it and got a variety of answers but in truth I can say that the difference between tracking in the booth and in my 1800' sq ft live room is minimal when the mic is close to the grille on distorted and clean tones. It will sound much different when I start pulling the mic away to catch the room but thats about it.

I can also run my amps WAY hotter in the iso booth, even during drum tracking.

Photo 7

On the left side you can see the door open to the booth and the little window.
Old 20th November 2008
  #28
Gear Maniac
 

Yeah I agree that the ISO cabs sound a bit weird. An ISO booth can sound good, but it will have to be pretty big. Especially for a "small basement studio."

As others have mentioned, there are some really usable software modelers these days.

If you must use your amp, I would look into cabinet impulses. (Ie. Recabinet, or some of the hundreds of free ones). Then you can take the pre-amp out on your amp and run them into those impulses.

In fact, you could make your own impulses with your own set-up. Then run your head into that.

Impulses I have found to be most realistic way of doing cabinets. And even combining them with software sounds pretty good.
Old 20th November 2008
  #29
Quote:
I would look into cabinet impulses
Thanx for the information.
I didn't think some have done convolution stuff as cabinet sim.
I've just upload some free convolution stuff, will give it a try.
I've heard some really great sounds on some threads, without any eq or comp, just a good impulse of mesa's cab...And it sound far better than pod or other ampsim.
Will tell you how it works for me as soon as possible.
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