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2 mic combo for a bass cab Dynamic Microphones
Old 16th September 2011
  #1
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2 mic combo for a bass cab

I'm running a di, but would also like to fully capture the highs and lows of a bass cab using 2 microphones. I've got an sm7/sm57 i can use, but i'm also in the market for another mic. something i can pick up used for less than 250. I have available to me an ampeg 8x10 and hartke 2x15. I'll be running the microphones through an apogee duet. mic placement and ideas welcome!

thanks!
Old 16th September 2011
  #2
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Mic suggestions are all over the place, so sorry if I don't have a specific answer but you can do a search for that.

I have to ask: why? What is it about your current set-up or past experience that leads you to go with such an elaborate set-up to record bass?
Old 16th September 2011
  #3
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why? why not? it gives me the opportunity to try mixing multiple sources. If i don't like it i could always not use it, but the blend of this combo could be interesting.
Old 16th September 2011
  #4
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try the oktava line. you may even score a modded 319 for 250.

you'll probably fine that 2 sources for bass is enough, DI and LDC, or dynamic and LDC.
Old 16th September 2011
  #5
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matskull's Avatar
 

I had good success with an sm57 combined with a D112.
The D112 by itself sounds too mid scooped but paired with the sm57 it works.

There are a lot more options but the D112 would fit your budget in the used market.
Old 16th September 2011
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattroy88 View Post
why? why not? it gives me the opportunity to try mixing multiple sources. If i don't like it i could always not use it, but the blend of this combo could be interesting.
True, but I find it rarely necessary to even use both a DI and mic at the same time. Sometimes too many options = too many distractions. Get your tone right at the source and record it in the simplest manner possible.

Phase issues will be a given, what with 2 cabs, 2 mics and a DI. Seems like overkill, and possibly a sign of something else seriously wrong in the chain.


Not knocking it, per sé, just saying that there are easier ways to get a kick-ass tone to tape. I wouldn't necessarily start with the most complicated...

Have you had difficulty capturing bass tones in the past?
Old 16th September 2011
  #7
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well, i wasn't going to hook up both cabs at once. i was jsut giving the option of one vs the other. I'm just never really happy with the clarity of the high end when it comes to bass.It seems like everyone is always looking for a mic to capture the lows and a microphone that can handle the volume of a bass cab and neglect the stuff going on in the higher frequencies generated by the bass. Ive read about some people who use guitar cabs for bass (i'm assuming with a di) and rave that it was one of their favorite bass tones that they've capture.
Old 16th September 2011
  #8
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Nervrem's Avatar
 

Take an old speaker and build your own subkick microphone!
Easy to do, really cheap and gives a lot of warmth and low frequencies to your mix if you add it carefully
But in the end it depends on what kind of sound you're looking for.
Old 16th September 2011
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

D6 + Red12 (12gaugemicrophones.com)
Old 16th September 2011
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennis View Post
D6 + Red12 (12gaugemicrophones.com)
dude, i just bought 2 of the green 12 gauge mics. they are in the mail. i can't wait to try them out.
Old 17th September 2011
  #11
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sonic dogg's Avatar
Clarity with a bass cabinet has everything to do with mic placement. Yeah, I know, you've heard this all before, but let me talk a bit about mic angles in conjunction with the speaker cone, distances from the center of the cone, as well as the preamps ability to translate these frequencies in time with the playing.

This may sound far-fetched, but when the pre cant keep up with the signal being fed it it will cause smearing which translates into LACK of clarity.

You may not notice it too much when the track is solo'd up and you may may think you've really dialed it, but at the mix when the clarity in the upper registers of the bass disappear this is generally why.

The movement of the mic diaphram by just an inch can make or break this.

Its one of the main reasons bass is generally recorded direct. It certainly made a difference in Sir Pauls tracks.

And how do you know whether you have the best speaker in that SVT cab? They're all going to be a little different from wear and tear at live gigs.

And then theres the phasing with a multi-speaker cabinet. You think that simply getting it right on the grill cloth isnt going to allow some leakage from another speaker in close proximity?

Maybe you pull the grill and get the cone at close range. Theres still some passive reaction from everything else in the cabinet working particularly if you're recording loud.

Cabinets are a lot harder to get that really clear and harmonically full sound out of than you'd think.

Try a small guitar amp. A combo. One speaker. Barely crack it open. Use a good full-range dynamic. SM-7b...RE-20....Heil PR35...Audio Technica ATM25. Again, low volume. Dont want to damage the speaker but you'll be surprised at how much TONE you'll have and how even and full it is.

Or just use a DI with a transformer in it.
Gotta have the iron in the bass..........
Old 17th September 2011
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic dogg View Post
Clarity with a bass cabinet has everything to do with mic placement. Yeah, I know, you've heard this all before, but let me talk a bit about mic angles in conjunction with the speaker cone, distances from the center of the cone, as well as the preamps ability to translate these frequencies in time with the playing.

This may sound far-fetched, but when the pre cant keep up with the signal being fed it it will cause smearing which translates into clarity.

You may not notice it too much when the track is solo'd up and you may may think you've really dialed it, but at the mix when the clarity in the upper registers of the bass disappear this is generally why.

The movement of the mic diaphram by just an inch can make or break this.

Its one of the main reasons bass is generally recorded direct. It certainly made a difference in Sir Pauls tracks.

And how do you know whether you have the best speaker in that SVT cab? They're all going to be a little different from wear and tear at live gigs.

And then theres the phasing with a multi-speaker cabinet. You think that simply getting it right on the grill cloth isnt going to allow some leakage from another speaker in close proximity?

Maybe you pull the grill and get the cone at close range. Theres still some passive reaction from everything else in the cabinet working particularly if you're recording loud.

Cabinets are a lot harder to get that really clear and harmonically full sound out of than you'd think.

Try a small guitar amp. A combo. One speaker. Barely crack it open. Use a good full-range dynamic. SM-7b...RE-20....Heil PR35...Audio Technica ATM25. Again, low volume. Dont want to damage the speaker but you'll be surprised at how much TONE you'll have and how even and full it is.

Or just use a DI with a transformer in it.
Gotta have the iron in the bass..........
Thanks! this was the exact type of response i was looking for!
Old 17th September 2011
  #13
Gear Addict
 

my two personal faves for bass cab are;

Sennheiser 421

&

Beyerdynamic M88 TG

but as has been said before, placement and amp tone will have more of a say than mic choice.
Old 17th September 2011
  #14
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bigdig's Avatar
 

bass mics

I would suggest an at 4033 and an re 20. I have had great luck with this combo in the past.
Old 17th September 2011
  #15
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I've heard a Heil PR30 sound great on an Ampeg 8x10:
PR 30 | Heil Sound
Old 18th September 2011
  #16
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The PR40 is excellent on Bass. The Kel HM7U/Cad M179 are also great options.
Old 18th September 2011
  #17
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subspace's Avatar
Last major tracking date I did, we used three bass rigs and a DI.

That's not standard procedure but we were searching for sounds and found a couple that worked well in conjunction.

There was a solid-state Ampeg feeding an SWR 4x10, which I ended up not recording, an Ampeg B-25B feeding an Ampeg 2x10, and a Univox head feeding a Marshall 1x15.

The B-25B/2x10 had an SM57 on it and the Univox/1x15 had a tube LDC in fig-8 on it, similar to a Apex 460. The Ampeg rig was growl city but a little inarticulate under the band. The Univox was thinner but the runs were cutting through almost like a synth bass double. Combined, everything we wanted was adding and anything cancelling seemed to help. Much better sum than it's parts, added in the DI for solid lows and it was rocking.
Old 18th September 2011
  #18
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mdsounds's Avatar
 

This is a fun thread.

I am a big fan of recording a solid DI track nice and clean. Then re-amping into multiple cab set ups depending on what the song calls for. Usually nice solid full bodied tone to base the tone off of. Then something a little more gritty to drop in at sections that call for it. Then usually something more extreme, heavy distortion or really low end funk sound.

As far as mic parings go D112 and a 421 rolled back 1 usually gives me great results. I also really like sm7 and the ev635a as a pair as well.

not exactly traditional pairings. But they work for me.

For example this track has 3 different set ups on it. All recorded with d112 and a 421 on the cabs

Azure Dragon of the East by MDsounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
Old 19th September 2011
  #19
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I love the Sennheiser e602 / SM57 combo (I usually take a DI as well but rarely use it in the mix). At around 160 $, the 602 is a modern, very scooped sounding bass / kick mic.

The 602 gives you deep lows while the 57 takes care of the midrange.

I tried a number of combos including a 421 and an SM7 but never really liked those sounds for bass right out of the gate.

You probably know this already, but when recording different size speakers with different mics you have to really keep on eye on phase.
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