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Roland vs1824 assistance (is this possible???) Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 7th September 2011
  #1
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traxkeyzvox's Avatar
 

Roland vs1824 assistance (is this possible???)

God I hope i'm in the right forum (my apologies if i'm not).... This is a somewhat nerdy question, but I felt it would be best suited for the "low-end" section as opposed to "geekslutz"... Anyhow, I called Roland AND Lexicon yesterday & for the first time EVER (at least with Roland [during NORMAL business hours]) I couldn't get a human on the phone... Left voicemails for both companies & got no return phonecall... Guess I picked the wrong day to call, but when all else fails, I TURN TO GEARSLUTZ & cross my fingers that someone might feel my pain & be able to assist! So here we go....

I recently acquired a Roland VS1824 which I plan to use for live backing tracks once I start doing some live shows... Being a musician myself, I definitely want to make sure ALL my band members are taken care of (aka-paid) for each gig as promised.... Until my budget is better, my band will probably only be 3-4 piece & thus the 1824 basically will add some fullness & cover any parts from the original recordings that aren't being covered by my live band (in addition to background vocals stemmed from the original recordings)... Until I can afford my own live sound engineer who will be present at my band rehearsals, I am also trying to think outside of the box to tackle a few things that my own live sound engineer would (presumably/normally) handle... I could have someone else from the band handle certain things, but I don't want my band members to be distracted with doing too much outside of playing their instruments to the best of their ability. With that being said, this is one situation i'm trying to sort out (PLEASE NOTE: I'm inquiring about 2 units & will place links to the owners manuals/appendices for BOTH units at the bottom just under the last paragraph in hopes of assisting someone who can possibly assist ME lol):

I am far from Beyonce & unlike some ppl, I don't want to be her (though I do love basically EVERYTHING she does :-)... One thing i've seen her (& many other artists) do is have a delay effect cut on/off on the lead vocal channel in different parts of a song, during their live shows. I love the vibe/energy it creates, you can have some real fun with it if you're a skilled singer & thus i'd like to incorporate this into my shows when the time comes. As stated, until I have my own personal live sound engineer who can make my band rehearsals, I have to figure out certain "alternate" ways to do things like this (preferably "automated" where nobody "manually" has to hit a button or turn a knob).

I've decided on a Lexicon MX300 or MX400 Reverb/Delay unit due to the fact that A. it seems to be the cheapest unit I can find that can be bought NEW (aka- dependable/not as risky during a live set), B. its delay times are pretty long, C. there is an assignable footswitch jack & (I think more than ANYTHING) D. it has "input dry" bypass where it will basically mute the effect from being applied to the realtime input signal, but still allow the DRY input signal to pass thru (& ALSO allow the most recent delay/reverb "tail" to finish its cycle)....

While the MX300/MX400 DOES have an assignable footswitch jack which I could use with a 2-button lexicon footswitch to "manually" bypass the fx from being applied to the input signal AND tap tempo if needed (I believe), i'd LOVE to be able to set it up where the Roland VS-1824 sends a MIDI signal (once the song reaches a certain point on the backing track) to A. turn the MX300 delay input bypass off/on & ALSO B. control the delay tempo when needed (in consideration of the different tempos between songs)... The manual for the MX300 states numerous times that the MX300 delay tempo CAN be controlled "via a MIDI clock source" & as I flip to page 45 in the MX300 manual it appears as though the delay tempo AND the BYPASS function can be controlled via "MIDI CC" messages (seemingly MIDI CC 14 for tempo & MIDI CC 13 for BYPASS [per page 46 "MIDI CC map - routing 5, stereo effects"])... It also seems (per the VS1824 appendices) that the VS1824 CAN send out MIDI CC messages, & page 127 (MIDI Implementation) seems to indicate that the VS1824 CAN send out control change #14 AND control change #13 (which has me thinking I might HOPEFULLY be able to pull this off)...

Now that most of my rambling is out of the way, here is my question (in case you can't already figure out what i'm getting at): I'm sure it would just be a matter of certain controller/system exclusive messages when dealing with a software sequencer (sequencer midi out[into]--->MX300 midi in), but CAN I CONTROL THE MX300 (IN THE MANNER I DESCRIBED) USING A ROLAND VS-1824??? If so, can someone knowledgeable (using the links to the manuals/appendices below) give just a brief step-by-step as to how would I go about implementing this??? I know the easiest way would be to just have a laptop with a multi-channel midi interface, load up protools/etc & run the sessions on stage live (while sending any/all midi control messages/etc to the midi interface then out to the MX300/VS1824/etc)... But i'm just not comfortable doing that right now as the laptop I currently own is not very powerful (& I don't want to risk any crashes during a live show as a result :-). REALLY hope someone out there can help!!! I promise i'll love you for life & buy you lunch when i'm in your town!!!! Thanks!!!!!


MANUALS:

MX300 MANUAL:

http://www.lexiconpro.com/product_do...18-0473V-C.pdf

VS1824 APPENDICIES:

http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/VS-1824_1824CD_AP.pdf
Old 7th September 2011
  #2
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traxkeyzvox's Avatar
 

bump (my bad :-)
Old 7th September 2011
  #3
Lives for gear
 

First off, bumping after waiting an hour for a response is silly. Sorry but I just had to say it.

Second, the Roland unit can sent MIDI clock and MTC info, but I believe that CC messages need to be sent manually (i.e. you need to hit a button or move a fader to get the message to transmit), which is basically the equivalent of you hitting a footswitch anyway.

The ideal in your case would be to use the internal effects in the Roland and program the automation into the project in your backing track. You would have to run your mic through the Roland unit, but that is not such a bad thing.


Third, that was a heck of a long post to ask a simple question. Sorry but I just had to say it. heh
Old 7th September 2011
  #4
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RusRant's Avatar
 

4th, hire a good soundman! Otherwise compromise the bells and whistles and focus on the music, the music will be better for it. Nothing is worse than seeing live music where the musicians are preoccupied with the tech and the music suffers.
Old 7th September 2011
  #5
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by RusRant View Post
4th, hire a good soundman! Otherwise compromise the bells and whistles and focus on the music, the music will be better for it. Nothing is worse than seeing live music where the musicians are preoccupied with the tech and the music suffers.

Bingo!!!...no truer words could have been spoken or, in this case, written.

The 1880/1824 is a good machine IMO, but keep the backing track stuff smple...don't get carried away with that....
As a musician my philosophy has always been that if I can’t play it and sing it on an acoustic guitar and make it sound good then it’s not worth bothering with. Of course, given your musical references above I’m not sure this philosophy applies….just my two cents.

Chris
Old 7th September 2011
  #6
Gear Nut
 
traxkeyzvox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisc_o View Post
First off, bumping after waiting an hour for a response is silly. Sorry but I just had to say it.

Second, the Roland unit can sent MIDI clock and MTC info, but I believe that CC messages need to be sent manually (i.e. you need to hit a button or move a fader to get the message to transmit), which is basically the equivalent of you hitting a footswitch anyway.

The ideal in your case would be to use the internal effects in the Roland and program the automation into the project in your backing track. You would have to run your mic through the Roland unit, but that is not such a bad thing.


Third, that was a heck of a long post to ask a simple question. Sorry but I just had to say it. heh

Not that I really need to explain anything to you, but I "bumped" this post because after I posted this, I then replied to someones response on a post of mine that was several months old... When I did so, this "resurrected" the old post to the top of the "Low End Theory" forum & I didn't want that to happen as this post you just read was more current/more pressing. So thank you for not understanding, but hopefully you understand a little better now that i've at least attempted to clear it up for you ;-)... If not, at least I know I tried

The footswitch thing is not the worst in the world, nor is me running my lead mic into the VS1824 (if it indeed can operate in a LIVE/realtime manner like that, outputting the live signal while ALSO playing back the pre-recorded parts at the same time). As I stated however, i'd like to minimize the additional things for my band (or myself) to MANUALLY handle outside of focusing on our instruments (aka- the key reason for this post). So (in other words), the more I can AUTOMATE things, the better (as opposed to having to run over to a footswitch during certain parts of the song in order to turn FX bypass on/off & set tempo).... I know any guitar player reading this would be giving a "wtf, we do that all the time" expression right now, but i'm a SINGER not a guitar player & I prefer to focus on the vocals without having to worry about manually handling all this technical stuff during a live show.

As for me running my LIVE lead mic thru the VS1824, the only issue with that is if I had 1 rainy day & that thing decided to crash in the middle of a song, I have a sneaky suspicion that my LIVE VOCAL CHANNEL would not be coming thru the soundsystem anymore.... At least I think thats what just might happen (so maybe thats why I didn't even consider that initially [?!?!]). I operate on common sense most of the time, & this is just common sense to me.

While I wasn't really looking for unwarranted criticism &/or hinted sarcasm, i've come to expect it on this website. So aside from all the "extra", thank you for responding (& I believe my post was "long" so that ppl would know what the hell I was talking about [?!]) OOPS, damn #whyamIexplainingmyselfagain? -trax
Old 7th September 2011
  #7
Lives for gear
 

I was trying to be helpful and humorous.

Even the criticism was an attempt to help you out.

Lighten up, and you're welcome.
Old 7th September 2011
  #8
Gear Nut
 
traxkeyzvox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RusRant View Post
4th, hire a good soundman! Otherwise compromise the bells and whistles and focus on the music, the music will be better for it.
When the budget allows, my friend... When the budget allows... Maybe I should have put that in bold print on the original post lol. I get you tho, trust me. Considering getting an intern who just wants to get his/her feet wet.

Quote:
Nothing is worse than seeing live music where the musicians are preoccupied with the tech and the music suffers.
And thats EXACTLY what i'm saying!!! I don't want to be preoccupied with the tech. Thats why i'm trying to get someone who knows these units to explain how I could possibly set it up this way :-). I absolutely DON'T want to be preoccupied with the "tech" side of things while i'm up there trying to remember lyrics/etc., but at the same time, I don't want to "water down" my shows & have them run just like everyone elses: I want to give people something as close to what they would get from an act playing at an arena, so that my act will stand out from the rest & ppl will remember who the hell I am. That might not make sense to some, but it sure makes sense to me . Some would say its impossible to achieve such a thing when you don't have that type of budget, but I think anything is possible with creative minds & a little thinking "outside of the box"
Old 7th September 2011
  #9
Gear Nut
 
traxkeyzvox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RusRant View Post
4th, hire a good soundman! Otherwise compromise the bells and whistles and focus on the music, the music will be better for it. Nothing is worse than seeing live music where the musicians are preoccupied with the tech and the music suffers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisc_o View Post
I was trying to be helpful and humorous.

Even the criticism was an attempt to help you out.

Lighten up, and you're welcome.

O trust me, you had me laughing as I replied lol. Thats 1 thing i'm learning about the internet, its not the best at portraying realtime human emotions. #itsallgood I appreciate the suggestions. I'm definitely not writing it off
Old 7th September 2011
  #10
Gear Nut
 
traxkeyzvox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretsch 6120 View Post
Bingo!!!...no truer words could have been spoken or, in this case, written.

The 1880/1824 is a good machine IMO, but keep the backing track stuff smple...don't get carried away with that....
As a musician my philosophy has always been that if I can’t play it and sing it on an acoustic guitar and make it sound good then it’s not worth bothering with. Of course, given your musical references above I’m not sure this philosophy applies….just my two cents.

Chris
I totally can see what you're saying. I definitely plan to have my "acoustic" numbers with just me & a guitar or me & a piano (& it helps that I play keys)... But my primary genre is pop/r&b & just about any modern pop artist (Beyonce, Usher, Gaga, etcetcetc) has that stage sounding just as good as what was cut in the studio (if not better)... & 99% of the time, they've got some backing tracks running alongside what the live band is playing (& every now & then they run some live fx on the lead vocal channel [ie delays, distortion, a-tune, etc]). Not that i'm trying to run with the crowd, but I feel like if you want to be a millionaire, you have to think like one. Not to imply that all pro musicians are millionaires lol, but I feel like this: If I want to take a stab at mainstream/crossover success, then I truly believe I need to plan my shows so that they will give the same/similar type of presentation compared to what you would get from one of the big label artists who work in my same genre. But I totally appreciate & respect those who like to keep it simple & minimize all the extra stuff... Just coming from a different position I guess!
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