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Big Mixer, No Outboard. Advice wanted! Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 2nd September 2011
  #1
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lunatic_77's Avatar
Big Mixer, No Outboard. Advice wanted!

So here's what i like to do. I have a Mixer an i want to mix with it. Concerning latencies though, i can not midi track from i.e. Cubase and have the audio processed by vst plugins via inserst on the console. So my plan is:
Record all the audio (max. 16 Tracks) to cubase while tracking with it and then assign the audio to the 16 outputs i have, play them with cubase, have vstz inserts on the channels and EQ / mix with my desk. This mix i then want to record in stereo on a 2-track reel to reel (probably Revox PR99).

Is this a good way? Any other routes? Tips & Tricks?

Thanks in advance!
Old 2nd September 2011
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Unless you are talking about a high dollar mixing console (Midas XL series, Paragon, upper tier Soundcraft, etc) the further away I can keep analog eq from my sound, the better off I am.

Short of that, there is no reason why you cannot do what you suggest, though I would mix back to the computer as well, because dumping it to tape at that point just makes more work.
Old 3rd September 2011
  #3
RiF
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No outboard? How do you plan to add reverb/delay to your tracks?
Old 4th September 2011
  #4
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The Reverb etc. is supposed to come from vst plugins, since i assume it doesn't make sense to buy outboard effects until you spend 2k on that. I want to buy outboard sooner or later, but can't afford it at the moment.

About the EQ, i think the analog EQs sound much better than any plugins i have tested so far. Anyways, when a high Q is needed i will have to rely on vsts.
Old 4th September 2011
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatic_77 View Post
The Reverb etc. is supposed to come from vst plugins, since i assume it doesn't make sense to buy outboard effects until you spend 2k on that. I want to buy outboard sooner or later, but can't afford it at the moment.

About the EQ, i think the analog EQs sound much better than any plugins i have tested so far. Anyways, when a high Q is needed i will have to rely on vsts.

Yeah, this is the rub though. Usually you want to send your eq'd tracks through the reverb. This is so that you are not sending anything unwanted into the verb, and in effect...making thousands of fast duplicates of that unwanted stuff....since that is really what reverb is doing in a basic sense.

Or at least eq'ing the reverb send.

If you are eq'ing on the console and doing the verb in the box, you will be eq'ing the reverb too.

Nothing inherently wrong with this, but usually it's process before effect...or at least for me, and most people I know.

I do eq the reverb returns on my desk, but the source being sent through the verb is usually compressed and eq'd prior to the outboard verb. Then, if any eq is needed to make the verb sit in the whole mix better, I eq the returns.

You could start doing extra conversions, that is eq'ing on the board, and bringing the dry track back into the daw eq'd. However this has it's obvious drawbacks too.

BTW, there are some good outboard verbs for less than $1k...not sure where this came from. Sorry if I missed something.

Just a thought.

john
Old 4th September 2011
  #6
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lunatic_77's Avatar
Thanks John, this is exactly the information i was looking for. I am quite new to mixing and want to have the best of both worlds. Can you recommend a good reverb in the price range you stated?
Old 4th September 2011
  #7
RiF
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I am using my 32-16-2 Soundtracs MEGAS for some hybrid mixing running 16 analog outs from Pro Tools into the board. Besides a bunch of compressors, I got myself a used Behringer V-Verb (EUR 110) and a Lexicon PCM70 (EUR 550) reverb unit. Both I like very much, the Behry for the cleaner and the Lex for the raunchier reverbs.
I still have to add a (simple) dedicated delay unit.

PS: It's sooo inspiring to touch real faders, knobs and buttons and see racks full of blinking VU's and meters... Ahhhhhh.... hmmmm.... uuuuhhhhh...

PPS: And besides that, I need way less hardware units than I need software plugins to do the same job.... That said, you don't need 48 compressors to do a nice mix OTB.

PPPS: My typical workflow is: All the corrective stuff (EQing, gating, De-essing) I do ITB. Then the stuff goes out to my console and all the creative, and mostly broader strokes, are done on the hardware.
Old 5th September 2011
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatic_77 View Post
The Reverb etc. is supposed to come from vst plugins, since i assume it doesn't make sense to buy outboard effects until you spend 2k on that. I want to buy outboard sooner or later, but can't afford it at the moment.

About the EQ, i think the analog EQs sound much better than any plugins i have tested so far. Anyways, when a high Q is needed i will have to rely on vsts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
Yeah, this is the rub though. Usually you want to send your eq'd tracks through the reverb. This is so that you are not sending anything unwanted into the verb, and in effect...making thousands of fast duplicates of that unwanted stuff....since that is really what reverb is doing in a basic sense.

Or at least eq'ing the reverb send.

If you are eq'ing on the console and doing the verb in the box, you will be eq'ing the reverb too.

Nothing inherently wrong with this, but usually it's process before effect...or at least for me, and most people I know.

I do eq the reverb returns on my desk, but the source being sent through the verb is usually compressed and eq'd prior to the outboard verb. Then, if any eq is needed to make the verb sit in the whole mix better, I eq the returns.

You could start doing extra conversions, that is eq'ing on the board, and bringing the dry track back into the daw eq'd. However this has it's obvious drawbacks too.

BTW, there are some good outboard verbs for less than $1k...not sure where this came from. Sorry if I missed something.

Just a thought.

john
Indeed.

hook your board Aux sends up to DAW inputs. Use these inputs to feed FX tracks in your DAW. return them up a spare pair of channels (so essentially you have an "FX stem" on your board.

Otherwise, you're sending eg un-EQed vox to a reverb, which is not a good idea. You'll also be effectively sending pre-fader sends to your reverbs, again not an easy way to mix!
Old 5th September 2011
  #9
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narcoman's Avatar
 

actually - one of the things I dislike about most DAWs is not being able to send un-EQ'ed signal to reverbs.
Old 5th September 2011
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
actually - one of the things I dislike about most DAWs is not being able to send un-EQ'ed signal to reverbs.
Really? Weird.... I guess it's easy enough to achieve with duplication/parallels, but a fiddle. that said - the only way to do it on a LFAC is by running the tape monitor and line input paths as separate sources...possible on an SSL/neve, less easy on older/less flexible consoles..
Old 5th September 2011
  #11
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Really? Weird.... I guess it's easy enough to achieve with duplication/parallels, but a fiddle. that said - the only way to do it on a LFAC is by running the tape monitor and line input paths as separate sources...possible on an SSL/neve, less easy on older/less flexible consoles..
My Neve has pre-EQ sends if you want. Pre insert as well...
Old 5th September 2011
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
actually - one of the things I dislike about most DAWs is not being able to send un-EQ'ed signal to reverbs.

Having both options is nice.

Yes, pre and post on a console is ideal for me too. Mine has this, although it's no Neve.

Most times it's post for me though. But I do have eq on the sends and returns both.

john
Old 5th September 2011
  #13
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

It's nice - but with most of my work being soundtrack mixing I find it quite necessary. Reverb on strings, for example, I like to come from source.
Old 5th September 2011
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
It's nice - but with most of my work being soundtrack mixing I find it quite necessary. Reverb on strings, for example, I like to come from source.

That makes total sense.

Unadulterated.
j
Old 5th September 2011
  #15
Which Neve do you have again?

john
Old 5th September 2011
  #16
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

V51 - same as RAK and Yoad. Not the greatest - but sonically better than most SSLs and quiet. Great for soundtrack work. Very good EQ as well..... I think Jim Williams and Fletch think they're a bag of ass though....
Old 6th September 2011
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
It's nice - but with most of my work being soundtrack mixing I find it quite necessary. Reverb on strings, for example, I like to come from source.
That makes sense I suppose....awkward git!

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
V51 - same as RAK and Yoad. Not the greatest - but sonically better than most SSLs and quiet. Great for soundtrack work. Very good EQ as well..... I think Jim Williams and Fletch think they're a bag of ass though....
To be honest, JW thinks quite a few things are a bag of arse that may well not be....
Old 6th September 2011
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
V51 - same as RAK and Yoad. Not the greatest - but sonically better than most SSLs and quiet. Great for soundtrack work. Very good EQ as well..... I think Jim Williams and Fletch think they're a bag of ass though....

Nice console

Wish I had it.

john
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