The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Recording drums with (just) two microphones Condenser Microphones
Old 28th December 2010
  #1
Gear Addict
 
Cue Zephyr's Avatar
Recording drums with (just) two microphones

Howdy folks,

I was just wondering if any of you ever had to record drums with just two microphones. Or, if any of you have tried it.
I'd been thinking about getting a second MK-012 and a new pre-amp so I can record with 4 microphones instead of 2 (I don't have enough inputs).

But, since I just couldn't wait I decided to try and record drums with a single MK-012 and an M179. I set them up in an M-S configuration.

The drumkit is a crappy old kit of which I forgot the brand name. Maybe Lenny Kravitz would've liked it...

Clip #1 is with both microphones at head-height in front of the kit (bout 3-4 feet away from the toms).

Clip #2 is the same as above but right above the toms, with the mics pointing mor downward.

Clip #3 (my favorite) has the microphones right above the snare drum. Imagine a line between the snare and the kick - the M179's null is following that line and the MK-012 is right on it, pointing down at the snare.

Clip #4 was the same as #3 but with both mics hanging where my head usually is (kinda uncomfortable for me but it was just a test anyway). As you can hear the snare isn't in the center anymore (as is with #3).

Clip #5 is just a jam with a bass added and few effects.

I don't want a second MK-012 and new pre just for drums though, especially the second MK-012 would come in handy with guitar recording.

Let me know about your experiences and what you think of my clips (I don't expect much good to come from the clips anyway).

CZ
Attached Files

drumrectest1.mp3 (584.7 KB, 12977 views)

drumrectest2.mp3 (863.0 KB, 10930 views)

drumrectest3.mp3 (1.54 MB, 11485 views)

drumrectest4.mp3 (816.4 KB, 10114 views)

drumrectest3jam.mp3 (1.65 MB, 9856 views)

Old 28th December 2010
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

If I've only got two mics, I might use one to get solid kick and use the other to get a mix of the snare and hi hat.

If it were a straight ahead jazz thing I might go with getting a great ride cymbal sound and then using the second mic to get the hi hat and snare.
Old 28th December 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
I think the third position is pretty usable. The kick sounds anemic in all of the micing configurations, though. What's your interface? If you have room for more inputs, but only have two preamps, it might be worth your while to snag some cheap dynamic and a tube mp or something just so you can cover the kick drum and get the rest of the kit with the third position you tried. Alternately, maybe you could substitute kick samples in your DAW.
Old 28th December 2010
  #4
Gear Addict
 

First, I would get new heads and learn to tune those tubs!!!!
Old 28th December 2010
  #5
Gear Addict
 
Cue Zephyr's Avatar
Thanks for listening.
Yeah, it does need new heads, and they haven't been tuned in a few months.

prontold,
It's an E-MU 0404 USB interface, it's got two XLR/TRS combined inputs with 60dBs of gain and 48V. The only other input it has is an S/PDIF and that to me seems rather useless.
Old 29th December 2010
  #6
SRS
Lives for gear
 
SRS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr View Post
Thanks for listening.
Yeah, it does need new heads, and they haven't been tuned in a few months
EEEEk.... a few months since tuning? Twist some lugs. You will be amazed at the difference in sound you can attain.
Old 29th December 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
I guess if i were doing 2 mic's only, i'd probably opt for a stereo overhead configuration, mostly a spaced pair, if not X/Y...

Since you're doing mid/side, i would probably first of all make sure the drums sound good first (i.e. in tune)...then when you set up the mic's, have them so that the cardiod aka your mid mic pointing in the line of your kick and snare...this won't be perfectly at the front of the kit, but slightly skewed to the side...the reason for this is because when you do it this way, you end up with the kick and snare perfectly in the middle.
Old 29th December 2010
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr View Post
I was just wondering if any of you ever had to record drums with just two microphones.
Actually, I use two mikes quite often... by choice. However, I use condenser omni mikes, so the low end is true. I also have a bunch of Studio Traps around the kit, so the sound of the overhead is a lively but dry sound that has just about everything but the snare rattle and a good solid low end on the kick. The omni overhead even has a good solid snare smack, so there really isn't a need for a fill mike on the snare.

The mike out in front of the kick is mostly just the kick, rack toms and snare rattle. I normally just find a good balance and mix to a single track on tape. The two mikes are really just adding to a single, complete picture of the kit sound, not a stereo image. Sometimes I add a third omni mike over near my right shoulder (closer to floor tom) to add a bit more ride and floor tom, still usually mixed in mono.

The thing is that you have to make sure the kit sounds the way you want and you have to make sure to play the whole kit in balance. For instance, if the snare needs to be loud and strong, you really have to play it loud, because you can't tweak much once it's recorded. Personally, I like recording that way, but it isn't for everyone or every style, that's for sure.

One plus is that it preserves some sense of depth, since things are being miked at different distances based on their actual position, rather than close-miking and having every sound reach the near mike at once. Another advantage is that it minimizes phase problems, since you only have two mikes and they are sampling such different parts of the kit sound that there isn't much overlap and thus not much chance for phase problems. Finally, it preserves a good sense of the dynamics of the performance, which is a good thing if you played things right, but not so good if you didn't...

Cheers,

Otto
Old 29th December 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
I think i got pretty good results with 2 mics:
Beta 52 kick
Audix adx51 overhead, I put the one overhead centered between ride and Hats from the front pointed back towards drummer to minimize stage monitor getting into it. Just kinda Eyeballed it and high enough so its not in front of his face.

Small kit, Kick, Snr, tom, Ride, Hats
Live show at a club. I will admit the Kick was open/no front head and sounded not so hot so I Drumagog'd it BUT the rest of the kit is the real deal.

Mix not perfect yet but (think it still needs a little low end cut)

If I only had 2 mics as an option i will do this again.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6319946/Tied...ing%20post.mp3
Old 29th December 2010
  #10
SRS
Lives for gear
 
SRS's Avatar
 

Love this post... And your philosophy Otto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofajen View Post
Actually, I use two mikes quite often... by choice. However, I use condenser omni mikes, so the low end is true. I also have a bunch of Studio Traps around the kit, so the sound of the overhead is a lively but dry sound that has just about everything but the snare rattle and a good solid low end on the kick. The omni overhead even has a good solid snare smack, so there really isn't a need for a fill mike on the snare.

The mike out in front of the kick is mostly just the kick, rack toms and snare rattle. I normally just find a good balance and mix to a single track on tape. The two mikes are really just adding to a single, complete picture of the kit sound, not a stereo image. Sometimes I add a third omni mike over near my right shoulder (closer to floor tom) to add a bit more ride and floor tom, still usually mixed in mono.

The thing is that you have to make sure the kit sounds the way you want and you have to make sure to play the whole kit in balance. For instance, if the snare needs to be loud and strong, you really have to play it loud, because you can't tweak much once it's recorded. Personally, I like recording that way, but it isn't for everyone or every style, that's for sure.

One plus is that it preserves some sense of depth, since things are being miked at different distances based on their actual position, rather than close-miking and having every sound reach the near mike at once. Another advantage is that it minimizes phase problems, since you only have two mikes and they are sampling such different parts of the kit sound that there isn't much overlap and thus not much chance for phase problems. Finally, it preserves a good sense of the dynamics of the performance, which is a good thing if you played things right, but not so good if you didn't...

Cheers,

Otto
Old 29th December 2010
  #11
Gear Addict
 
Cue Zephyr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRS View Post
EEEEk.... a few months since tuning? Twist some lugs. You will be amazed at the difference in sound you can attain.
I hadn't played drums in nearly a year either. But I tuned the heads now. It's just the highest tom I can't get to sound completely right. Looking for a new drum kit now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson89 View Post
I guess if i were doing 2 mic's only, i'd probably opt for a stereo overhead configuration, mostly a spaced pair, if not X/Y...

Since you're doing mid/side, i would probably first of all make sure the drums sound good first (i.e. in tune)...then when you set up the mic's, have them so that the cardiod aka your mid mic pointing in the line of your kick and snare...this won't be perfectly at the front of the kit, but slightly skewed to the side...the reason for this is because when you do it this way, you end up with the kick and snare perfectly in the middle.
That is kind of what I did with clip 3, but in M-S, thereby it is my favorite.

And if I soon have a second MK-012 (and maybe a second M179 later), I will try that spaced pair too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofajen View Post
Actually, I use two mikes quite often... by choice. However, I use condenser omni mikes, so the low end is true. I also have a bunch of Studio Traps around the kit, so the sound of the overhead is a lively but dry sound that has just about everything but the snare rattle and a good solid low end on the kick. The omni overhead even has a good solid snare smack, so there really isn't a need for a fill mike on the snare.

The mike out in front of the kick is mostly just the kick, rack toms and snare rattle. I normally just find a good balance and mix to a single track on tape. The two mikes are really just adding to a single, complete picture of the kit sound, not a stereo image. Sometimes I add a third omni mike over near my right shoulder (closer to floor tom) to add a bit more ride and floor tom, still usually mixed in mono.

The thing is that you have to make sure the kit sounds the way you want and you have to make sure to play the whole kit in balance. For instance, if the snare needs to be loud and strong, you really have to play it loud, because you can't tweak much once it's recorded. Personally, I like recording that way, but it isn't for everyone or every style, that's for sure.

One plus is that it preserves some sense of depth, since things are being miked at different distances based on their actual position, rather than close-miking and having every sound reach the near mike at once. Another advantage is that it minimizes phase problems, since you only have two mikes and they are sampling such different parts of the kit sound that there isn't much overlap and thus not much chance for phase problems. Finally, it preserves a good sense of the dynamics of the performance, which is a good thing if you played things right, but not so good if you didn't...

Cheers,

Otto
That is a great post, I should keep the omnis in mind (I like the MK-012's omni capsule).
I like the thought behind this set-up too. Often a too-clinical sound by close-miking isn't at all very nice for recordings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manfrensengensen View Post
I think i got pretty good results with 2 mics:
Beta 52 kick
Audix adx51 overhead, I put the one overhead centered between ride and Hats from the front pointed back towards drummer to minimize stage monitor getting into it. Just kinda Eyeballed it and high enough so its not in front of his face.

Small kit, Kick, Snr, tom, Ride, Hats
Live show at a club. I will admit the Kick was open/no front head and sounded not so hot so I Drumagog'd it BUT the rest of the kit is the real deal.

Mix not perfect yet but (think it still needs a little low end cut)

If I only had 2 mics as an option i will do this again.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6319946/Tied...ing%20post.mp3
That does sound very sweet, actually. Would you recommend the Beta 52 or 52A?
Old 29th December 2010
  #12
Lives for gear
I own a Audix D6 and have used the beta 52a also. I think booth are good.
IMO the D112 is darker sounding and not as much snap, if you want the attack of the beater.

Many drummers I have mixed for don't always know how or don't take the time to get tuning dialed in, or just can't afford to change heads when they should. As many stated you gotta have a good source first!
I recommend to a lot of drummers to use the Evans EQ3 head with the muffle ring and also the Evans pad inside the kick. One for each head, and use a hard beater, wood or plastic with the
flam pad where the beater hits the head. I prefer coated heads for recording also, less ring. Most guys go for the clear heads due to being louder I guess.
Old 29th December 2010
  #13
Gear Addict
 
Cue Zephyr's Avatar
I'll keep that in mind. Once I get a new pre-amp I'll be spending every buck on microphones I guess. heh

I would take time to get the tuning as right as I can (I spend a lot of time tuning my guitar also, so drums should be OK with me also).
I'm not sure if changing heads would do this old kit much good though.

I know I need a good source first, but I just couldn't be bothered for this test.

I can speak for the coated heads though, I actually like their sound better than the clear ones too.

Still think I need a new kit. x)
Old 29th December 2010
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Aaron Miller's Avatar
Just did a two mic setup: R121 on overhead focused on getting the most snare and toms relative to cymbals and beta 52 on kick also picking up some snare rattle and tom low end. 121 was over drummer's right shoulder pointing down towards the kick and null point towards high hat. Amazingly full "picture" with just the 121. Absolutely must play the snare, kick, and toms hard to make this work.
Old 29th December 2010
  #15
Gear Addict
 
Cue Zephyr's Avatar
So it looks like I'll be needing a second MK-012 and a Beta 52.
That leaves the MK-319 and the M179.
I can see the 319 work on snare as it has a warm timbre and will probably capture that punch of the snare quite well.
And as we all know the M179 is a great tom microphone.

I'm not planning on using close-miking all the time everywhere, but it sure looks like a nice capability.

I'm not big on hitting hard. I tend to hit in a bit more civilized, even reluctant way. And I like it that way, too.
Old 21st February 2011
  #16
Gear Head
 
number3prod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manfrensengensen View Post
I think i got pretty good results with 2 mics:
Beta 52 kick
Audix adx51 overhead, I put the one overhead centered between ride and Hats from the front pointed back towards drummer to minimize stage monitor getting into it. Just kinda Eyeballed it and high enough so its not in front of his face.

Small kit, Kick, Snr, tom, Ride, Hats
Live show at a club. I will admit the Kick was open/no front head and sounded not so hot so I Drumagog'd it BUT the rest of the kit is the real deal.

Mix not perfect yet but (think it still needs a little low end cut)

If I only had 2 mics as an option i will do this again.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6319946/Tied...ing%20post.mp3
Dude! Sweet job with the track for a live show... Sounds awesome.

I've been looking at the ADX51 but I haven't seen toooo much stuff on here about the mic. Sounds killer! I'm sold.
Old 21st February 2011
  #17
Lives for gear
 
MickeyMassacre's Avatar
If you have only two mics I suggest trying the recorderman method. There are plenty of youtube videos showing how to achieve it.
Old 21st February 2011
  #18
Lives for gear
 
edva's Avatar
I've had great results with two omni's in crotch position, about seven inches apart. I usually use LDC's with the capsules facing the beater impact point. But the omni caps available for the MK-012 sound great, and aren't too expensive, you could go that route.
This method has several advantages, including natural phasing, and most importantly "proper relative volume balance of drums, and especially cymbals.
Also, on mixdown, the two mics can be hard panned, but the image is mostly centered in a naturally-wide space in the middle, with a "proper" amount of splash on the edges.
This method however is obviously dependent on player and kit, but when it works, it's great.
Old 21st February 2011
  #19
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr View Post
T.

prontold,
It's an E-MU 0404 USB interface, it's got two XLR/TRS combined inputs with 60dBs of gain and 48V. The only other input it has is an S/PDIF and that to me seems rather useless.
The 0404 does an ok job but Id try to upgrade to a 1212m or 1616m if you can, makes a massive world of difference!

But good job overall on the recordings considering.
Old 21st February 2011
  #20
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by number3prod View Post
Dude! Sweet job with the track for a live show... Sounds awesome.

I've been looking at the ADX51 but I haven't seen toooo much stuff on here about the mic. Sounds killer! I'm sold.
Adx51 is around $199. Great alternative to the $380 Sm81. I did not do the over the shoulder mic like the recorderman method as I was trying to keep the vocal wedges out of the one overhead as much as possible.

Also found the with sm58 or similar Vox mic's that a lot of bottom end cut is necessary to clean up Vox tracks doing live stuff. Did another bar gig recording recently also where the lead Vox used a Audix om5 or Om7 super cardioid and it has a hot top end. Was much better for recording live with no low end cut needed like I normally have to do. Had to actually tame a little crispiness.


Via Gearslutz iPhone app
Old 21st February 2011
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
KickDrum's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomox View Post
The 0404 does an ok job but Id try to upgrade to a 1212m or 1616m if you can, makes a massive world of difference!
I have the 0404 usb 2.0 interface and I've heard similar things before. On paper they look similar, the 0404 came out later, but the other models are more expensive. What is the significant improvement? How would the converters compare to something like an RME babyface or the MOTU ultralite? Thanks for the help.
Old 21st February 2011
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
KickDrum's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
I've had great results with two omni's in crotch position, about seven inches apart. I usually use LDC's with the capsules facing the beater impact point. But the omni caps available for the MK-012 sound great, and aren't too expensive, you could go that route.
This method has several advantages, including natural phasing, and most importantly "proper relative volume balance of drums, and especially cymbals.
Also, on mixdown, the two mics can be hard panned, but the image is mostly centered in a naturally-wide space in the middle, with a "proper" amount of splash on the edges.
This method however is obviously dependent on player and kit, but when it works, it's great.
Do you think that the CAD M179 microphones would be a good option for what you're describing? Thanks.
Old 21st February 2011
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickDrum View Post
I have the 0404 usb 2.0 interface and I've heard similar things before. On paper they look similar, the 0404 came out later, but the other models are more expensive. What is the significant improvement? How would the converters compare to something like an RME babyface or the MOTU ultralite? Thanks for the help.
I thought this thread was about drum mic'ing?


Via Gearslutz iPhone app
Old 21st February 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickDrum View Post
I have the 0404 usb 2.0 interface and I've heard similar things before. On paper they look similar, the 0404 came out later, but the other models are more expensive. What is the significant improvement? How would the converters compare to something like an RME babyface or the MOTU ultralite? Thanks for the help.
Compared to the RME and Motu in sound there's very little difference, in my ears the EMU M series does sound a bit smoother then the RME but hardly any difference in sound, out of those three would be a difficult pick really and it would be best for you to check reviews. But If I was already an EMU user and found the patch mix and drivers useful for personal use I would stick with EMU.

The M series has a massive load of features over the 0404, but the main thing is the pro tools converters which give crystal sound and recordings, and with the 1616m you get nice pre amps and soft limiting all which will help your recordings sound a great deal better.
Old 21st February 2011
  #25
Using two mics to capture a drum set has less to do with the brand name of the microphones and more to do with the drummer playing the drum set.

If you have a drummer that plays too loudly, or plays unbalanced (i.e., beats the snare into the ground whilst barely touching the bass drum) then you will have a terrible sounding recording, even if you use two Neumann mics.
Old 21st February 2011
  #26
Lives for gear
 
edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickDrum View Post
Do you think that the CAD M179 microphones would be a good option for what you're describing? Thanks.
Absolutely. I've not used that model, but used two of their "GXL 3000" series, in omni as described, with excellent results. The 179 is supposed to be a much better mic.
Here just found a picture from those sessions: note, as mentioned, I ended up pointing the capsules at the kik beater, and a spacing of six to seven inches between the diaphragms. L-R balance was established by playing only the Kik until the signal was matched on both channels (i.e. perfectly centered). HTH, Peace, Ed.
Attached Thumbnails
Recording drums with (just) two microphones-eds-stereo-omni-crotch-mic-technique.jpg  
Old 23rd February 2011
  #27
Here for the gear
 

Question

I have an 8 piece drum kit with 13 cymbals and I only record using 4 mics! One on the kick, one on the snare, and 2 condenser's overhead on a stereo mic bar. I'm very suprized with the sound that I can get with only the 4 mics!
Old 20th May 2016
  #28
Lives for gear
all i have is an sm58 and a low end tascam LDC but i think 2 mics would be better than one....or maybe not...i think just using the sm58 would sound better. its mono....i'm just realizing now...even when i make my own edm stuff...i always have the drums in mono....i jsut dont like the sound of unblanced hihats and snares off the left and right and all over the place.......i put delays on the hats but they are always just barely panned equally left and right..(well for return tracks those are wide...).just barely...kick is in th emiddle...snare in th emiddle...clap in the middle...i like to detune the samples and use stereo widening....but i dont want different actual drums on l and r.....it just makes me feel off balance and uneasy......

i mean...do i want to have my ride cymbals on the right...panned and the hihats on the left...in an edm song....heh....no....that sounds weird to me....on headphones.....on speakers its different i guess.....

yes the ride cymbal is coming from the right....but its not like on the other side of the room right......its basically exactly where you are....relatively speaking...everything is within arms length.....and i dont know how much you can actually tell that the hihat is really way out there on the left....because its not...

in terms of the overall stereo field...the hats and ride are really basically like 3 L and 3 R maybe...

if 50LR is 90 degress ffrom center....then the drumset overall is really actually like 10 degrees offset maybe at most.....because you are behind the drums...they arent on either side of your head...that would make playing ridiculous.

its not like you are standing int he middle of the room....and 90 degrees from center you have a drum on the left..and one on the right....but you could do that...with samples....itb

idk so recording with just one mic...that might end up sounding a bit flat....maybe...i guess. but not necessarily...if you put the mic exactly over your head...pointing into the kit....the width of the sound would still be wide.... or would it

but two mics...that would most accuratelly capture the sound you hear in reality....but it could be phasing problems

but still....you wouldnt point them out at 90 degrees from behind the kit...because the sound is not coming from that direction...but that is how your actual ears are ...on either side of your squishy head

like when you hear the kit...you are hearing the soundwaves bouncing off everywhere...in front of you...above you...below you....and they are hitting your eardrums...almost at a right angle really....

like the main soundwaves ....

the snare soundwaves would be mainly travelling up and down...to the ceiling and to the floor and your ears are basically just catching the sound perpendicular...except for the reflections...that ultimately end up coming on the plane that your actual eardrums are positioned on.
Old 24th May 2016
  #29
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by starsoul707 View Post
i jsut dont like the sound of unblanced hihats and snares off the left and right and all over the place.......i put delays on the hats but they are always just barely panned equally left and right..(well for return tracks those are wide...).just barely...kick is in th emiddle...snare in th emiddle...clap in the middle...i like to detune the samples and use stereo widening....but i dont want different actual drums on l and r.....it just makes me feel off balance and uneasy......
this is totally confusing
if you are using samples etc, what do you need any mics for?

Quote:
i mean...do i want to have my ride cymbals on the right...panned and the hihats on the left...in an edm song....heh....no....that sounds weird to me..
the ongoing epic battle between mixing drums "drummers' perspective" and mixing drums "audience perspective" has been raging for decades. With untold casualties and devastation, no doubt. I mix drums "audience perspective" but of a Left-Handed Drummer (ha!) so the ride cymbal is back on the right!

In other words, it's a tempest in a teapot. Few things matter less.

Quote:
yes the ride cymbal is coming from the right....but its not like on the other side of the room right......its basically exactly where you are....relatively speaking...everything is within arms length.....and i dont know how much you can actually tell that the hihat is really way out there on the left....because its not...
how wide you pan your drums is your choice. In the 70's the toms went from the left speaker all the way across to the right speaker. And if it was Neil Peart, around from left to right again. Today that is considered 'corny'. But no law says you must be 'realistic' when mixing.

Quote:
..because you are behind the drums..
YOU are behind the drums. Are you making music just for yourself to listen to? For other drummers to listen to? For people who want to imagine themselves to be drummers to listen to? Or for everybody in the world to listen to?

Quote:
if you put the mic exactly over your head...pointing into the kit....the width of the sound would still be wide.... or would it
no it would not be wide. It would be the opposite of wide. It's one mic. If you record stereo with two mics, you can pan them to mono if you want, or bring them in, to taste. Full wide, to extremely narrow or any place in-between.
But if you record with one mic, you have no such options.

Quote:
but two mics...that would most accuratelly capture the sound you hear in reality....
though they will give you stereo, two mics overhead often are lacking in punch from the kick drum. I have recorded drums with two mics in some situations. I usually go for kick and mono overhead. To me covering the musical elements of the set - high stuff and low stuff - is more important than covering the spatial elements of the set - right stuff and left stuff.

do a search here on GS for "underheads". This is where you place two mics in front of the drums and about belt high - though there are many variations. This gets some kick back in the picture and still gives you stereo. Which as I said earlier, you can choose to exploit to whatever degree sounds best to you by just pulling them in or panning them wide.



Quote:
your ears are basically just catching the sound perpendicular...except for the reflections...that ultimately end up coming on the plane that your actual eardrums are positioned on
all those funny little folds in the pinna of your ear are for directing sound from many different directions into your eardrum. You hear much more than the 'perpendicular'! Make your mixing decisions on what sounds best in the context of your mix and not on what you think you know about what is happening in "reality" or with your room or with your ears.

Mixing does not have to reflect reality in any way.
Old 24th May 2016
  #30
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
this is totally confusing
if you are using samples etc, what do you need any mics for?


the ongoing epic battle between mixing drums "drummers' perspective" and mixing drums "audience perspective" has been raging for decades. With untold casualties and devastation, no doubt. I mix drums "audience perspective" but of a Left-Handed Drummer (ha!) so the ride cymbal is back on the right!

In other words, it's a tempest in a teapot. Few things matter less.



how wide you pan your drums is your choice. In the 70's the toms went from the left speaker all the way across to the right speaker. And if it was Neil Peart, around from left to right again. Today that is considered 'corny'. But no law says you must be 'realistic' when mixing.


YOU are behind the drums. Are you making music just for yourself to listen to? For other drummers to listen to? For people who want to imagine themselves to be drummers to listen to? Or for everybody in the world to listen to?


no it would not be wide. It would be the opposite of wide. It's one mic. If you record stereo with two mics, you can pan them to mono if you want, or bring them in, to taste. Full wide, to extremely narrow or any place in-between.
But if you record with one mic, you have no such options.


though they will give you stereo, two mics overhead often are lacking in punch from the kick drum. I have recorded drums with two mics in some situations. I usually go for kick and mono overhead. To me covering the musical elements of the set - high stuff and low stuff - is more important than covering the spatial elements of the set - right stuff and left stuff.

do a search here on GS for "underheads". This is where you place two mics in front of the drums and about belt high - though there are many variations. This gets some kick back in the picture and still gives you stereo. Which as I said earlier, you can choose to exploit to whatever degree sounds best to you by just pulling them in or panning them wide.




all those funny little folds in the pinna of your ear are for directing sound from many different directions into your eardrum. You hear much more than the 'perpendicular'! Make your mixing decisions on what sounds best in the context of your mix and not on what you think you know about what is happening in "reality" or with your room or with your ears.

Mixing does not have to reflect reality in any way.
ok thianks joeq, thanks for the advice. i guess i dont really know what i am doing...i just take it day by day and focus on being a better musician everyday...i'm not a drummer, there just happens to be a drumset in my room all of a sudden. i dont want to make things more complicated than i need to. its like you said, that you cant be ten things, like you cant be a recording engineer and a producer and a drummer and a singer and a keyboard player and an edm producer.. you ahve to just take it simple on most things and not waste time doing things that you dont need to.

so i think i'm just ggoing to keep using one mic...and focus more on just the music...and not on recording..the recording is just a means to an end for me....its just lucky that i can have my own itb studio that you can do this....but i like to be very knowledgeable about sound physics and that stuff, which makes me able to best use simple tools to their maximum potential.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
keap / So much gear, so little time
8
Faderix / So much gear, so little time
6
DreamSound / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
0
soupking / So much gear, so little time
8

Forum Jump
Forum Jump