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Home recording studio - For R&B & Hip-Hop vocals ?? Audio Interfaces
Old 27th December 2010
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Home recording studio - For R&B & Hip-Hop vocals ??

Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice, for the best equipment on a budget, for R&B and hip-hop vocals. Mostly R&b. I'll be recording mostly female vocals, but some male too.

So far this is what I have, and the results are horrendous!

1) Acid Pro 7
2) Cad GXL2200 mic, with phantom power
3) Pop filter
4) Mic Stand

That's it. lol and as you can probably guess, it sounds terrible. My vocals sound flat, I sing really good, but you can't tell when you play it back.

Ok, So I have about $1500 to spend. And here's my what I'm looking at buying:

1) Antares AVP Vocal Producer - To create my signature sound. $379
2)AKG K-44MKII Headphones - $39
3) M-Audio Studiophile speakers - $149
4) Shure SM7B Microphone - $349
5) ART DPS II Stereo Tube Preamp ($229) OR ART Tube MP Project Series Tube preamp ($59)

What do you guys think about the above? If it sounds ridiculous, what would you recommend for a home studio for mostly R&B and Hip-Hop music?

Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Nicky
Old 27th December 2010
  #2
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quadrafunk's Avatar
 

What interface are you using?
Old 27th December 2010
  #3
Here for the gear
 

:O

I hate to say this, but... NONE!

What should I be using?

I'm not a beginner, but I'm not a pro either.. far from it. lol I just know that I'm wasting alot of money on studios, and I think I can do it here, and then pay this guys I know $25 to master it.
Old 27th December 2010
  #4
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quadrafunk's Avatar
 

Ok. That's cool. I know there are some usb mics that you can record with directly to you daw without the need of an interface.

If you could explain a little how you are actually getting those vocals into the computer, it will help a lot.

That being said:

If you aren't using outboard gear to process the vocal before it is recorded, make sure you get a nice "take". Don't record to hot and make sure there are not overbearing pops etc...(pop filter will help with that).

The room is going to contribute to the sound that is captured. I'm not familiar with the mic you are using but I do know that if the room has a "bad" sound, it will make a good mic sound bad.

If you can borrow another mic from someone, you can check to see how it sounds in that room before you purchase another.

Let me know how you're recording and we can go from there.

cheers
Old 27th December 2010
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Hey bud!

An interface is how you get the "audio" into your computer for editing. There are cheaper ways to do this (such as USB-microphone adapters, so on), but getting an interface with good A/D converters (or, Analog to Digital converters) will be your start to making great records!

What kind of "tone" are you aiming for when it comes to the vocals? I've heard some R&B and Hip-Hop that's very bright (lots of highs), but I've also heard recordings that are warm (more on the classic R&B side). This might give you an indicator as to what kind of mic/pre/interface you should get. A lot of people will tell you to get as MANY different mics and preamps in your arsenal so that you will have many tools in your toolbelt depending on what singer/musician goes into your studio. As a beginner, though, if you can be matched up with one great mic and preamp/interface, you'll be on your way to making some great tunes!

Keep in mind, the Shure SM7B requires a LOT of gain (Gain is basically the amount of power your mic needs to shine, kind of like amps for subs in cars--if you don't have enough watts, your subs aren't going to perform their best). So, if you decide for-sure to get an SM7B, this might determine what kind of mic pre you need (many cheaper interfaces and preamplifiers won't have enough gain for this microphone).

Another great microphone I've heard of that's GREAT for female-singers (from a couple reviews I read online) is the MXL V69ME. It's a tube-microphone--it has a very "vintage" tone to it. A common upgrade to the mic is to replace the factory "tube" with more a more expensive one, sometimes even vintage tubes--many users (from what I've read online) report that, when the tube is replaced, this mic sounds KILLER on female vocals (and sometimes on male vocals and instruments, depending on the singer and the instrument). Also, www.musiciansfriend.com has it on sale for $219 (usually $299), which is a STEAL! They also have an upgraded version (called the V69ME XM) which has added "power" to it (kind of like it's own amplifier, if you will). It's usually $399, but is on sale for $299 on musiciansfriend as well--these would both be GREAT starting mics, and they sound great! (and they LOOK great, too! Check them out!)

Good choice on Antares for your vocal-stuff. Even though (IMHO) Melodyne is less "noticable" in mixes, Antares has that signature-sound when it comes to tuning vocals that is recognizable on many hit records from the radio. I remember the first studio I ever recorded in, the guy tuned a bad note in my song with Antares--and WOW, just him using Antares gave my vocals that "Whoah, this sounds like it's from the radio!" touch if that makes sense haha

Also, how are you going to make the music? Do you have any sample-libraries/beat-makers? If not, I have a few I can recommend (I record a lot of pop-music along with rap/hip-hop, I know a few synths I can recommend that sound GREAT!)

~Izzy
Old 27th December 2010
  #6
Here for the gear
 

recording

Thanks for the help!!

Ok, So I've got my CAD mic running into my phantom power stick, and it's running straight into my computer via a USB.

Then I just start recording onto a track in Acid Pro 7. I listen to the music in my headphones, then sing to it.

I can't do anything to the vocals to make it sound good.. I guess that's why I'm wanting the antares avp vocal processor. But I don't want to waste money on that, if I can't get good vocals coming in, so I'm def going to splurge for a mic. I don't want to spend more than $400 on a mic, but if I can cut corners with other items, like the studio speakers/monitors, headphones, etc.. then I'll splurge up to a $600 mic, if needed.

Also, the best room in my house to record is my bathroom, and it's got thin walls, terrible ambience. Thin windows, dogs barking.

SO I decided to try out my master bedroom. There's not many outside noises that can be heard, but it's full of electronic equipment.. though I can turn off and unplug everything when it comes time.

I'm recording on my HP Pavillion Entertainment laptop. 6 gigs of Ram, 500 gig hard drive (175gigs free). Intel core duo 2 @ 2.13 ghz.

Sony Acid Pro, as I mentioned, no additional plugins other than the antares auto tune plugin, which does nothing because the vocals are so flat sounding, and it doesn't pick up my highs lows, etc.

Thanks alot for your help!!

Nicky
Old 27th December 2010
  #7
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quadrafunk's Avatar
 

BigIzzy makes good points.

I was going to mention an interface with good A/D (analog to digital) and D/A (digital to analog) conversion. This will make big difference in what is being recorded and how you hear what's being recorded and played back.
Old 27th December 2010
  #8
Lives for gear
 

low end setup

only thing i'd keep on that list is the sm7b

the other stuff is useless

buy an low cost interface with 'decent' preamps / 65dB+ gain

look at something like a profire 610 or fasttrack pro
Old 27th December 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
 
quadrafunk's Avatar
 

Also, does you daw come with some stock plugs? Eq's and comps. You can do a search here on gearslutz for some freeware plugs to get you started or add to what you already have.

Most of my vocal processing happens in the daw after I've recorded. There's a huge difference between what I recorded and the processed vocal.
Old 27th December 2010
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
ktodac3298's Avatar
 

skip on the vocal processing unit you can do better In the Box

u say u got 1500 and you;re mainly singing, this is what i would get

id get a condenser mic (you have a lot of choices here, really depends on your voice so do your own research too)

Rode NT2-A $400

Golden Age Pre-73 $300

If you want pro tools software get a mbox mini $330
OR if you're fine using acid (acid is fully capable of producing great results)
then get focusrite saffire 6 if you only have usb or a saffire pro 14 if you have firewire, i've used a M-audio fast track pro and liked that a lot too $200-250

two Yamaha HS50M $400

Some headphones $50

Some Cables $50

that should come to about 1500, if you want to cut down you can look at a cheaper mic, the sm7b you were looking at is great too, was used on backing vocals on thriller

and then the most important part, which is free, learn how to use your equipment, read GS. With that equipment you should be able to get close to 70-80% full pro studio quality...just know that the next 30-20% costs like 100x more


also this is just my opinion, you will hear lots of others

if you need any help u can PM me

Quote:
Originally Posted by drhook View Post
Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice, for the best equipment on a budget, for R&B and hip-hop vocals. Mostly R&b. I'll be recording mostly female vocals, but some male too.

So far this is what I have, and the results are horrendous!

1) Acid Pro 7
2) Cad GXL2200 mic, with phantom power
3) Pop filter
4) Mic Stand

That's it. lol and as you can probably guess, it sounds terrible. My vocals sound flat, I sing really good, but you can't tell when you play it back.

Ok, So I have about $1500 to spend. And here's my what I'm looking at buying:

1) Antares AVP Vocal Producer - To create my signature sound. $379
2)AKG K-44MKII Headphones - $39
3) M-Audio Studiophile speakers - $149
4) Shure SM7B Microphone - $349
5) ART DPS II Stereo Tube Preamp ($229) OR ART Tube MP Project Series Tube preamp ($59)

What do you guys think about the above? If it sounds ridiculous, what would you recommend for a home studio for mostly R&B and Hip-Hop music?

Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Nicky
Old 27th December 2010
  #11
Lives for gear
 

I suspect that your current gear will allow you to record excellent vocal tracks.

1) You really need to post a clip of your results if you expect to get any constructive feedback.

2) If all you're doing is pitch-correction once you've tracked I strongly suggest experimenting with compression and EQ, even in the virtual realm (i.e. plugins).

All I can say is that if your tracks are sounding flat and you're not compressing them at all you are not giving your gear a fair shot. Experience will help your final product in this regard way more than any gear upgrades at this point in the game.
Old 27th December 2010
  #12
Here for the gear
 

@bigizzy

@Bigizzy,

My tone.. hmm.. I don't think anyone sounds like me lol The closest person would be Stevie Wonder. I do high notes, but not often.

Ok, well Stevie Wonder, may not be the closest person. I'm pretty original. :DI'll do a sample recording for you guys tomorrow, so you can hear my sound. I'll do whatever so you guys can have enough information to give me your expert advice.

I'll do a recording with the mic built in my laptop, and 1 recording with my recording setup (cad mic, acid pro 7).

I'll have to do it tomorrow as everyone is asleep right now lol

About my music, I buy premade beats. I wish I could get beats made from my lyrics, but haven't been able to find someone for that. So I find the right beats, and write to them. I've purchased 2 exclusive rights from soundclick over the past month. So I've got the beat in wav format , and I've got the track-by-track files.

Nicky
Old 27th December 2010
  #13
Lives for gear
Haven't read all the posts yet, so forgive me if i'm repeating anything...the sm7b is a great microphone, i have one, i use it ALL the time for vocals...BUT you need a decent preamp to match it. I wouldn't even get the antares thing...the GAP pre73 as has been mentioned would be a great match for that mic on a budget. You also need an interface though...there are many around, i would mention some, but i'm sure someone else will give you a number of good suggestions.

Order of materials i would focus on:

Interface
Mic
Preamp
Headphones
Monitors

Once you have all of that sorted...THEN start on other things...(cabling is assumed during all of that)
Old 27th December 2010
  #14
Here for the gear
 

others

I see many others posted by the time I finished writing the reply to bigizzy .. lol, WOW I get distracted.

Thanks for the feedback and advice!! Priceless. thumbsup thumbsup

I will post a clip tomorrow. I bet the sound recorder clip will sound better than my mic and acid. Haven't tested, but I will tomorrow.

Gotta get some sleep right now , but please keep the feedback coming, I really need it.

Will be back on here about 3pm EST tomorrow.
Old 27th December 2010
  #15
Lives for gear
 
quadrafunk's Avatar
 

It's gearslutz man, open 24/7. We don't sleep. heh

This place is better than Walmart.
Old 27th December 2010
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
ktodac3298's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by quadrafunk View Post
It's gearslutz man, open 24/7. We don't sleep. heh

This place is better than Walmart.
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

but to the OP

save some money for acoustic treatment!
Old 27th December 2010
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Rap/hip hop vocals?

- Room treatment
- SM7
- Good pre
- Good converter

I'm actually a folk artist, but I tracked this hip hop track the other day with my side project, The Great American Fame Band. (And, warning, it's not for kids)

I tracked all 3 lead vocals (and the electric guitar) in a small, treated room that doubles as my control room through the following chain:

SM7 > GR 500NV > Apogee Duet.

There is minimal processing, i.e., it's not mixed. I think I might have thrown some compression on the vocals in Logic.

Hip hop is more about vibe than anything else. Get the take and, imo, you're good. I, too, thought I could get better takes off the clock at home...and I was right.

We tracked one the other day holding a 58, and we were literally almost "spitting" on the mic. Raw/awesome. YMMV.
Attached Files
Old 28th December 2010
  #18
Here for the gear
 

Rap: coles 4039 (really nice low end), AEA R92, Neumann U47 and dare I say the Electro-Voice RE20...but look out for the electronics. Also, look to using some blankets to cover surfaces in order to get some rawness into ur recording...rap doesnt always have to be pop clean.

R&B: Audio Technica AT2020...omg, Neumann TLM103...but dial in some high end
Old 28th December 2010
  #19
Gear Head
 
D-Fyant's Avatar
I record mostly hip hop/rap vocals but I also record RnB (mostly male). If you're going to go the usb route without an interface, I'd personally recommend the mxl usb.009. It's a pretty neutral affordable mic.

I also find that the mxl 2003a and the studio projects b1 both work well; the b1 if you have a quieter room and the 2003a if you have a noisier room (since it picks up less background noise). Of course these 2 condensers need phantom power which you already have but a decent preamp as well as an interface are a must imo with these.
Old 29th December 2010
  #20
Here for the gear
 

posts not posting

Hey, ok I posted an email from musiciansfriend and some other posts a few days ago, but it said the admin had to approve them, but I think because the mf email had links in it, that he thought I was a spammer or something.

So now none of my posts are being posted here. Hope this one goes through.

Nicky
Old 29th December 2010
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drhook View Post
I hate to say this, but... NONE!

What should I be using?

I'm not a beginner, but I'm not a pro either.. far from it. lol I just know that I'm wasting alot of money on studios, and I think I can do it here, and then pay this guys I know $25 to master it.
ok here's my usual initial advice...

What is your goal? What are you ultimately trying to accomplish with your music?

If fully undertaking this route you speak of, expect to trade A LOT of your time for what you are wasting on studio's, because time is money. There will be an opportunity cost here that you really need to think about.

It will be trial and error and you definitely won't make all the right purchase choices, and it is only so much gear and a lot of experience, which cannot be fast-tracked.

There is a learning curve, and unfortunately the exponential increase happens pretty far along the time line from point zero.

In retrospect you may find that the cheapest route is maintaining your current path and using the studio, but you never know...
Old 29th December 2010
  #22
Here for the gear
 

ok the musiciansfriend email

Ok so one post went through, so let's see if this does. This is the reply from musiciansfriend, and what they recommend.

What do you guys think about their recommendations?

Code:
Thank you for your recent inquiry.

You will just need a MIDI interface to hook this up to your computer.
hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/E-Mu-Xmidi-2X2-V3-USB-MIDI-Interface?sku=584011

hxxp://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Monster-Cable-Digilink-5-Pin-MIDI-Cable?sku=331660

Hook the vocal producer to the USB/MIDI interface using a MIDI cable, then hook up the other end of the interface(USB) to your USB port in your laptop.
Of course you will also need a microphone cable:

hxxp://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Monster-Cable-Studio-Link-500-Interconnect-TRS-M-XLR-F?sku=331685

Other than that, all your connections will be taken care of.

Here are a couple mics that are great for either male or female, but fantastic for R&B, with a really smooth sound:

hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/MXL-V69-Mogami-Edition-Tube-Microphone?sku=271017

hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Audio-Technica-AT2020-Large-Diaphragm-Condenser-Microphone?sku=270620

hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Blue-Blueberry-Cardioid-Condenser-Microphone?sku=279001
Thanks,
Nicky
Old 29th December 2010
  #23
Here for the gear
 

Me me me :d

Ok guys, got two small clips for you of me.

This is with my CAD GXL220 mic, going straight into my computer via my phantom power stick, and usb. Into acid pro 7.

As you can hear, my vocals sound flat. Well I guess you wouldn't know that cuz you can't hear how I sound in person. But I sound much better than this, and I just wish I could get my mic to pick that up.

Let me know what you think, and what your recommendations for a mic, interface, preamp, are for my voice. I'll be recording mostly me, but I also do rap.

Thanks a ton for any help.
Attached Files

nickyallenclip.mp3 (471.3 KB, 2032 views)

nickyallenclip2.mp3 (426.4 KB, 1779 views)

Old 29th December 2010
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhook View Post
Ok so one post went through, so let's see if this does. This is the reply from musiciansfriend, and what they recommend.

What do you guys think about their recommendations?

Code:
Thank you for your recent inquiry.

You will just need a MIDI interface to hook this up to your computer.
hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/E-Mu-Xmidi-2X2-V3-USB-MIDI-Interface?sku=584011

hxxp://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Monster-Cable-Digilink-5-Pin-MIDI-Cable?sku=331660

Hook the vocal producer to the USB/MIDI interface using a MIDI cable, then hook up the other end of the interface(USB) to your USB port in your laptop.
Of course you will also need a microphone cable:

hxxp://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Monster-Cable-Studio-Link-500-Interconnect-TRS-M-XLR-F?sku=331685

Other than that, all your connections will be taken care of.

Here are a couple mics that are great for either male or female, but fantastic for R&B, with a really smooth sound:

hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/MXL-V69-Mogami-Edition-Tube-Microphone?sku=271017

hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Audio-Technica-AT2020-Large-Diaphragm-Condenser-Microphone?sku=270620

hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Blue-Blueberry-Cardioid-Condenser-Microphone?sku=279001
Thanks,
Nicky
Lol....lets see if anyone else can work out whats wrong with this advice from musiciansfriend...i'll give you a hint...the interface they mention is MIDI only, and the only cable coming from the AVP is a midi cable...but he wants to produce Vocals...ALSO the fact that the unit itself offers no phantom power at all what so ever, and yet they recommend plugging a condenser into it via a TRS-XLR monster cable...


Last edited by Nelson89; 29th December 2010 at 05:43 AM.. Reason: Edit: Musicians Friend
Old 29th December 2010
  #25
Here for the gear
 

exactly

Exactly what I need! That's why I doubled checked it with the experts here. I won't just trust a vendor, as they just want me to buy buy buy.

Nelson, what do you think about the mics they recommended.

I've always heard of interfaces, and the studio I used to frequent had one, but I never thought it was necessary. I was confused at the whole process at first, but since coming here, I'm getting the hang of what needs to happen. It isn't all foreign to me anymore.

So I need a mic, and a mic preamp , then an interface. I need some studio monitors as I have NONE, just headphones. So really new headphones too. And MAYBE the antares avp thing. I'm thinking about that so I can create my own sound, and wherever I go, any studio or whatever, I can take it with me, and have "my sound" with me. Know what I mean? Or is that necessary?

You guys are just awesome. When I put out my first cd or itune, I'm gonna give you guys props. For real!
Old 29th December 2010
  #26
Lives for gear
Oh the mic's they recommend are great, they have a bit of respect here in the GS world. To be honest i would probably recommend you get your interface first, just get an interface with a mic pre and phantom power if you decide to use a condenser mic.

If you're absolutely certain you want that antares thing (which i honestly think their software versions do a better job of anyway...) then you'd need an interface that had a way to route outputs....brands that come to mind are MOTU, RME, Apogee, M-audio...

Essentially what you need is a mic and an interface first...preamp can come later if you're not happy with the stock pre's in the interface. The interface acts as your computers soundcard when you plug it in, so the sound quality will be night and day better than plugging it straight into your computer.
Old 30th December 2010
  #27
Gear Nut
The mentionened Audio Technica mic is good

Also the Studio Projects B1 which I used to have it sounds a bit bright AND detailed. It might matches your voice perfectly

Also look into ADK microphones as they have quite alot from 200? to your max 600 bucks.

Which makes me think I guess 600 is already a go for the used market.

Most of all I guess you ll still finding yourselve trying fix things WITH yout new equipment. So you should start that already. Put two matrazzes together to like a roof shape and place the mic in between. I know this stuff is feels silly but it will advance the sound.
Old 30th December 2010
  #28
Here for the gear
 

dbecks

Thanks dbecks, I think I'm going to go with the AT2020, heard too many great things about it for R&B and hip-hop vocals.

Now, I need a mic preamp for it, and an interface. Still not sure what the interface is for.. lol But I've heard I need one. Any advice on a mic preamp and interface for the AT2020?

I forgot to mention that I do have the mxl mic mate, which says it's a preamp. Will that do?
hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/MXL-USB-Mic-Mate-Classic-Interface-with-Phantom-Power?sku=270707


Would you guys recommend this, over using acid pro 7?
hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Tascam-DP02-Digital-Portastudio?sku=241788
-OR- This:
hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Zoom-R24-Multitrack-RecorderInterfaceControllerSampler?sku=H70259

Thanks guys,
Nicky
Old 30th December 2010
  #29
Here for the gear
 

preamp and interface

So, I need a mic preamp, I hook my mic in it, and then run it out to my interface, then I run that into my computer?

Does the interface have to be digital out? Does the preamp have to be digital out? Or will this preamp do? hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/ART-Tube-MP-Studio-Mic-Preamp?sku=180581

I actually have a mic already, and I'd like to buy a 2 channel preamp, so I can record with both of them at once, and then mix the two to get the perfect sound.

Thanks for any help.
Old 30th December 2010
  #30
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhook View Post
So, I need a mic preamp, I hook my mic in it, and then run it out to my interface, then I run that into my computer?

Does the interface have to be digital out? Does the preamp have to be digital out? Or will this preamp do? hxxp://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/ART-Tube-MP-Studio-Mic-Preamp?sku=180581

I actually have a mic already, and I'd like to buy a 2 channel preamp, so I can record with both of them at once, and then mix the two to get the perfect sound.

Thanks for any help.
Start with an interface with mic pre's first...upgrade pre's later when you find you need to. ART tube MP won't necessarily be better than your interface pre's...look at something like an m-audio profire 610, or similar device for firewire, or USB might do just fine, something in the guise of the m audio fast track or similar.

This will act as your soundcard when you plug it into the computer, so it will be a digital signal carried across say a USB cable for example....trust me, this will get you much better results than plugging straight into your computer's soundcard....

You could use most of them with Acid as well, so don't be too worried there either, just use ASIO drivers for windows or CoreAudio drivers for a mac so that its pretty stable.

Even something like this could be all that you need:

Buy Digidesign Pro Tools Mbox 2 Package | Studio & Recording Packages | Computer Music Packages | Musician's Friend

Comes with protools le software...you could use it or not, depends on how you like it, it'll still work with Acid. And at $599 for interface, your audio technica mic and monitors...you might still have some money left over for what ever else you wanted to buy.
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