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Stellar cm-6 : best budget tube mic!
Old 19th January 2011
  #331
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Michael,
Not that I care, but for more balanced historical picture just wanted to bring to attention the fact, there were a few Neumann models (and are darn good mics), which used a KK67 capsule with no de-emphasis circuit, so in this respect the "intended use" can be stretched and really depends on the circuit implementation context.
Best, M
!
FWIW the Soundelux U99 had little top end filtering, using a k67 style capsule.
Old 19th January 2011
  #332
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaphappy View Post
The point was....
Yeah, I got your point - months ago. In the spirit of civility, I was just trying to find something we could all agree on - the fact that 8k is useful, or even required, in some music styles, and reviled in others. Plus, I noticed an opportunity to talk about my favorite subject - frequency response graphs!
Old 19th January 2011
  #333
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kidvybes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbock View Post
!
FWIW the Soundelux U99 had little top end filtering, using a k67 style capsule.
...your U99 was a great mic Dave (and coincidently also a triode-wired EF86 circuit with a 6-micron K67 capsule)...thanks for your valuable input!...

Soundelux U99 Review

Soundelux U99B | RecordingHacks.com
Old 19th January 2011
  #334
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
Yeah, I got your point - months ago.
fuuck
Old 19th January 2011
  #335
Lives for gear
 

Dude.

Come On.

We are all trying to keep this above the line. To be fair, you've more than made your point about Michael Joly. There are just as many of us who enjoy his posts.

You're name is not Jules or Matt, and you're not modding the forum .. Yet. heh

Keep it civil, hey?

Cheers Fella RAy
Old 19th January 2011
  #336
Lives for gear
 

Dennis,

Unless I've read it incorrectly, I noticed Jim Jacobsen mentioned that the EF86 tube in the CM-6 has it's legs :
1. soldered directly to the PCB
2. bent, so that the tube fits into the body casing.

Does this sound correct to you?

I'm wondering if it would be easy to solder in a tube socket to seat the tube. Can anyone post a photo of the inside of their CM-6?

Cheers RAy
Old 19th January 2011
  #337
Hey Ray,

I'm pretty sure it doesn't because no offense to Dennis, but from what I understand he's sodering impaired :p
And he swapped out the tube. Also, JJaudio never mentioned anything about having to sodering the tube.

Where does Dave say the tube was sodered?

Peace,
Min
Old 19th January 2011
  #338
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mista min View Post
Hey Ray,

I'm pretty sure it doesn't because no offense to Dennis, but from what I understand he's sodering impaired :p
And he swapped out the tube. Also, JJaudio never mentioned anything about having to sodering the tube.

Where does Dave say the tube was sodered?

Peace,
Min
The CM6 has a tube socket so tubes can be switched out. I did mention that I removed the tube socket, drilled the pcb, and re-mounted the socket to get more room for the new transformer.

Some of the early Nady 1050 mics had soldered tubes.



Old 19th January 2011
  #339
Lives for gear
 

Ooopsy Daisy ...

Sorry Jim. I stand corrected. It was actually YOUR post I was thinking of.

I'll just step outside into the snow
Old 19th January 2011
  #340
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kidvybes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_subsonic View Post
Dennis, Can anyone post a photo of the inside of their CM-6?

Cheers RAy
RAy...here's a pic (left) of the inside of my CM-6 (tube side)...I have replaced the stock EF86 with an NOS E80F, which is a longer tube, but there is still enough clearance to accommodate the longer tube...

...if you're wondering what those black bands are around the tube, those are o-rings being utilized as "tube dampers"...the jury is out as to whether they offer any real improvement other than on slightly microphonic (noisy tubes)...but they incorporate the dampers in many of the high-end boutique mics, so I thought it was worth a try...they cost next to nothing...

...the second pic (right) is the tube fitment on one of the C12 style prototypes I'm auditioning for Peter...one of those variations will be the new CM-5 mic...the mounting of the tube in this mic is a bit more restrictive than in the CM-6, but swapping the stock tube as I have done in this one, is not difficult...
Attached Thumbnails
Stellar cm-6 : best budget tube mic!-cm6tube.jpeg   Stellar cm-6 : best budget tube mic!-cm5tube.jpeg  
Old 19th January 2011
  #341
Lives for gear
 

Thanks Dennis. You're The Man !!

Gotta say ...

1. It looks real nice and tidy in there ..
2. That's a tidy chunk of glass.
3. Plumbers "O-Rings"?? A good idea.

Cheers RAy
Old 19th January 2011
  #342
Lives for gear
now for goodness sake can someone sell me one of these buggers... and put me down for the cm5.
Old 19th January 2011
  #343
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kidvybes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_subsonic View Post
3. Plumbers "O-Rings"?? A good idea.

Cheers RAy
...yeah...you can buy them online as "tube dampers" for a buck each and more, or go to the hardware/auto parts store, ask for 3/4" inner diameter o-rings and pay half that or less...

...below, some more preview shots of the CM-5 prototype...
Attached Thumbnails
Stellar cm-6 : best budget tube mic!-stellarcm5preview.jpg   Stellar cm-6 : best budget tube mic!-cm5shockmountpreview.jpg  
Old 19th January 2011
  #344
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marik View Post
Michael,

Not that I care, but for more balanced historical picture just wanted to bring to attention the fact, there were a few Neumann models (and are darn good mics), which used a KK67 capsule with no de-emphasis circuit, so in this respect the "intended use" can be stretched and really depends on the circuit implementation context.

Best, M
Yes, you're correct of course - the K67 has been used without HF de-emphasis, I'm aware of this. In fact your past posts on this subject have broadened our knowledge about Neumann's caspules so thanks for that.

But when when I speak of the K67 capsule I'm careful to always refer to the original type K67 (with 8kHz boost), followed by HF de-emphasis as found in the more well-known U 67 and U 87 mics described in the Stephen Paul MIX article. The timbre-balances of these two mics are well known and thus illustrate Neumann's intention regarding the K67 capsule and following HF deemphasis circuitry - as manifested in the U 67 and U 87.

And to David Bock's point that his U 99 used a K67 with very little HF filtering -

Yes, a designer is free to implement whatever capsule / circuit topology he sees fit. And from the literature I see the U 99 was designed using an elegant, low-parts count circuit for maximum signal purity, maximum transient response and minimal phase shift. Design goals I agree with and applaud. The K67 type capsule used in the U 99 was tuned for a less-pronounced top end peak as well. With less capsule HF boost the negative feedback and low-pass filtering could be eliminated to allow for greater system phase accuracy. The mic's timbre-balance would be pleasing as result of the reduced capsule HF peak and not a reliance on a deemphasis circuit. In fact my own implementation of my MJE-K47 capsule follows the same design strategy (less peaked capsule followed by a minimalist, flat-response circuit).

To restate the point I made in post #309 above and to broaden it - I am not saying the CM6 (or the U 99, or any other K67 / flat response circuit mic) is designed incorrectly. What I am saying is this: if a mic uses a classic K67-type capsule with intentional HF peak, and is followed by flat response circuit - it does not conform to the topology nor timbre-balance Neumann intended its K67 equipped U 67 and U 87 mics to have. That's a very specific, delineated and factual statement that doesn't bash any products.

Finally, its up to individual users to decide for themselves if a peaked K67 capsule (or less peaked K67-variant) used in conjunction with a flat response circuit is pleasing to them and works well in their applications.

By the way - A warm welcome to HomeRecording.com's microphone forum moderator "MsHilarious" (Jon O'Neil, founder of Naiant Microphones). Please introduce yourself so we can recognize your Gearslutz member name! Glad to see you spent some time reading and enjoying my spectral content analysis post. Oh, KB - "musical blessings" to you too and pleased to see we've all turned over a new leaf!
Old 19th January 2011
  #345
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kidvybes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
By the way - A warm welcome to HomeRecording.com's microphone forum moderator "MsHilarious" (Jon O'Neil, founder of Naiant Microphones). Please introduce yourself so we can recognize your Gearslutz member name! Glad to see you spent some time reading and enjoying my spectral content analysis post. Oh, KB - "musical blessings" to you too and pleased to see we've all turned over a new leaf!
...just following your lead MJ...
Old 19th January 2011
  #346
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Sounds good. But you're not picking up the expression of Schadenfreude from me! But to stay on topic...

...do you have any more thoughts to share about capsules and circuits in mics?
Old 19th January 2011
  #347
Gear Head
 
Michael Lee's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...yeah...you can buy them online as "tube dampers" for a buck each and more, or go to the hardware/auto parts store, ask for 3/4" inner diameter o-rings and pay half that or less...

...below, some more preview shots of the CM-5 prototype...
WHAT ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!
I demand to see the specs on those so-called "O-rings"! I've NEVER seen one of those in a factory fresh Neumann, nor does THE LITERATURE make any references to them.

You should publish any and all doctoral theses that have been done on the subject of these DUBIOUS DONUTS!!!!

Can't do it eh? Just as I thought....selling sizzle, not the steak. I feel it imperative to toss my curls and LEAVE THIS FORUM FOREVER!
Old 19th January 2011
  #348
Lives for gear
 
kidvybes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Lee View Post
WHAT ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!
I demand to see the specs on those so-called "O-rings"! I've NEVER seen one of those in a factory fresh Neumann, nor does THE LITERATURE make any references to them.
...begging your forgiveness...I forget to note, that I only use German O-Rings...heat resilience tested at high speed on the autobahn in Stuttgart!...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Sounds good. But you're not picking up the expression of Schadenfreude from me!
...sorry MJ, it must be your alter-ego:

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
When it comes to mics, pure and simple, I'm all for ANY mic that's cool and sounds unique or great. I don't care if it costs $79 or $7900. I own and proudly use both. thumbsup I hope to use a CM6 at some point so I can make up my mind about it - up close and personal. But I have to say that at this point, I am quite turned off to what might be a killer mic, just because of the overhype of one person, and the overall sheep attitude.
...you would think by now, with many other CM-6 owners chiming in with their own positive reviews (as well as voicing their interest in when the CM-5 will be available), that my supposed "overhype" could now be seen in retrospect as having been honest enthusiasm for a particularly good and inexpensive piece of gear...(and I get accused of innuendo?)...and the GS members that chose to trust my recommendation are now sheep?...
Old 19th January 2011
  #349
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
OK folks - locking this thread.

There is plenty of good info on here already.

please refer to the tags at the bottom for other similar threads
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