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Tappin off the Live Sound guy? Condenser Microphones
Old 22nd December 2010
  #1
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Tappin off the Live Sound guy?

Heya...not sure if this would be the place to post this or not, but its pretty low end in theory.


I've got friends in bands. they play shows. These shows already have live sound "professionals", but when I hear the "live recording" from the board that they had mixed down, it sounds like ****.

My question is.... How would I go about taking a split off the FOH board? Is that insanely rude to do or something? Is it a common practice for bands to bring in their "guy" who dabbles in the live sound crew's stuff? All I want is to take an output from the I/O's...preferably pre fader pre aux and all that.

I was just going to setup my laptop and firepod and grab the tracks...

what do you guys think??
Old 22nd December 2010
  #2
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Really you need mic splits. No good doing it off the board because if he wants to push the gain into clipping (which sometimes you just have to) he'll do it, because his job is to get the best LIVE sound possible. Clipping through a live system will largely be transparent until you really start overdoing it, you will hear it in recordings much sooner. Additionally, any gain changes they make mid-gig will be reflected in your recording.

Unfortunately, mic splits are not cheap. And even then, you need pre-amps too.

This question gets asked most days and unfortunately the answer is the same. The only way to get round it is to take a pre-fader Direct out (available on some desks, not all! Find out what the venue has and google the manual) and tell the in-house guy that you are the band's engineer, and do the sound yourself. At least then you can stop it clipping. But be warned, if it is one of them systems you just have to push to make it sound good, you'll have to choose your own trade off between your recording and the live sound they get. And no matter what they tell you, once they're on stage and full of energy, they'll be hacked off if the crowd get a bad mix.

Oh and finally, the reason the recordings sound poor is not just the engineer. It's largely the horrendous room sound, the mics roughly positioned and the spill from the wedges, too.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #3
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yeah...what about taking an aux split??? Pre fader? That'd work too. I really wouldn't feel comfortable taking over the live sound job for the band, since I have had very little experience with live sound personally. I could do it if neccessary though...i understand signal flow well enough. You sound like you've had live sound experience...would you be peeved if some guy asked to take a pre-fader split from your console?
Old 22nd December 2010
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjew24 View Post
yeah...what about taking an aux split??? Pre fader? That'd work too. I really wouldn't feel comfortable taking over the live sound job for the band, since I have had very little experience with live sound personally. I could do it if neccessary though...i understand signal flow well enough. You sound like you've had live sound experience...would you be peeved if some guy asked to take a pre-fader split from your console?
No but I would think of it as pretty pointless.

Reasons why:

1) Using an aux means you're still mixing the show on the desk for recording, just doing a different mix. This means 2 pairs of hands on 1 desk. This never works. Ever. Ever.
2) Using a pre-fader aux still 9/10 times (on live desks at least) work Post-EQ so that won't help, as the engineer will EQ based on what's coming out of the FOH speakers not based on what sounds good for recording.
3) The gain problem is still there.
4) The room acoustics problem is still there.
5) The mic placement problem is still there.
6) You don't know whether all the aux's might be in use already.

There's 6 good reasons not to.

Understanding "Signal Flow" (??? It starts at the top of the desk and works it's way to the bottom, at which point it goes to wherever the button selected tells it to...) does not mean you can do live sound. There are quite a lot of issues in live sound that you don't see in the studio world so it is an art in it's own right.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #5
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Depending on the gig and set up, it might be easier to throw up your own mics and then take the vocal splits off a direct out/mic splitter so you can get more control. If that is not an option, then your left with what he gives you. You can try auxes, but you will likely run out of channels or he will do a poor job of submixing for you.

Mic split is the best option. If this is a serious gig, look into renting something. You won't regret it.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #6
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yeah I know it's more than signal flow. But I could do it...it's not rocket science. It boils down to how much faster the live sound vets are than me. Which speed seems to be the single most important thing in live sound anyways.

I meant the sig flow of the board would still make sense...obviously there's the monitor mixes and blah blah everything else that I don't routinely work with...too many people working on the same thing = miscommunication in most cases! I totally get the whole 2 hands on one board = no-no.

i have the gear to just mic it all up myself, but the drums and vocals now become the issue. I could just try some overheads and a kick drum mic to keep it simple...

For vocals i could do a mic split.

seems i have solved my problem.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #7
Feeds from the FOH board can be disastrous on so many levels.

Mic level splits are always the way to go - you don't necessarily need to bring any mic's or stands of your own (except crowd mic's or anything that the house isn't mic'ing), and other than your little rig, there is little setting up for you to do. With mic splits, you are out of everyone's way and they practically won't even know you are there.

Check out the Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording - Gearslutz.com forum.

I think there you will find the answers to all your questions and more...

Specifically click the tag entitled "splitter" and you get:
splitter Threads - Forum Tags by Zoints

This thread in particular goes through all the info you'll ever want to know about splitters:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...ic-anyway.html

Just observe good etiquette: give the sound guy a head's up before you show up, and bring the necessary cabling to get the signals from your splitter back into his stage box.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #8
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Thank you RobAnderson, I will look at those posts you recommended. I hadn't previously thought that splitters were used for this purpose...even though it makes sense. Thanks all!
Old 22nd December 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjew24 View Post
yeah I know it's more than signal flow. But I could do it...it's not rocket science. It boils down to how much faster the live sound vets are than me. Which speed seems to be the single most important thing in live sound anyways.

I meant the sig flow of the board would still make sense...obviously there's the monitor mixes and blah blah everything else that I don't routinely work with...too many people working on the same thing = miscommunication in most cases! I totally get the whole 2 hands on one board = no-no.

seems i have solved my problem.

No, you haven't solved your problems.

Speed is the LEAST important thing in live sound.

Being competent IS the MOST important thing.

Honestly?

Board mixes are mixed for the room... not for recording. They always suck.

Best thing to do is take the board mix to 2-tracks and hang a pair of mics... or multiple pairs of mics and blend it later.

Or if you're really daring, blend those four source signals right to 2-track.

A pair of mics on the stage, facing the audience... with the board mix... a good blend with some little smoke & mirrors... some EQ & whatnot and people will think your a genius.

I do some fly-pack gigs exactly like that when a 'bigger' setup either isn't called for or properly budget'd.

Dealing with splitters & whatnot is a whole other level. You aren't there yet.

It takes a MASSIVE investment and a pretty thorough understanding of 'monitor mixes and blah blah' to pull that off without getting in the way and fukking up the show.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs View Post

Board mixes are mixed for the room... not for recording. They always suck.

Best thing to do is take the board mix to 2-tracks and hang a pair of mics... or multiple pairs of mics and blend it later.
Yes.

This is a smart way to get a decent live recording with a minimum of fuss.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjew24
when I hear the "live recording" from the board that they had mixed down, it sounds like ****.
Remember the board mix is sound reinforcement - unless the room is really really big, it will have a lot of the quieter instruments (like vocal) and very little of the louder amps and so on. It is unbalanced - only half of the story.

The board mix is mixed by the live sound guy based on what he hears, so it is a mix minus Stage Volume which travels directly to his ears and therefore needs no reinforcement. Solution? Set up some mics to pick up stage volume. (I like one or two omnis on stage, down low or up high, inside the line of the Front speakers so as to not pick up more of what the board mix already has)

Though the reality may differ from theory, Mathematically, at least, you should now have "everything". Back home, you can combine these two basic elements - stage volume and reinforcement and get the whole picture. For videos, I often take a mono stage mic and a mono board mix and throw it to the left and right channels respectively of the video recorder . Works very well considering how basic it is.

Of course, some clubs Do have boards with good direct out setups, a local one here has a Crown mixer where Aux 6 can switch to a channel direct out and the aux pot becomes a separate volume control. I have recorded many a show there. I love it. The club owner even has a snake running out of the booth to plug into.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #11
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I like the idea of using the mixdown and blending it with a few mics.

All i'd be doing with a splitter is putting it between the mic source and the box....one output into my firepod, the other into the box. Why does that require the know-how of a live sound master? Am I missing something? ART supplies a cheapo one for 200bucks. What is the massive investment? I have cables.

I forgot that a live sound mixer will EQ to the room...
Old 22nd December 2010
  #12
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You need one of these.

This is what I use to do exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

A very clean, no noise unit. All I then do is run a multicore snake next to the live engineers and sit with him with my recording kit.

Cheers
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Old 22nd December 2010
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobywan View Post
You need one of these.

This is what I use to do exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

A very clean, no noise unit. All I then do is run a multicore snake next to the live engineers and sit with him with my recording kit.

Cheers

Yes! That is what I need... clean mic signal straight from the source. Live sound guy gets his signal too. Works perfectly. thanks guys!
Old 22nd December 2010
  #14
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Tappin off the Live Sound guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjew24
I like the idea of using the mixdown and blending it with a few mics.

All i'd be doing with a splitter is putting it between the mic source and the box....one output into my firepod, the other into the box. Why does that require the know-how of a live sound master? Am I missing something? ART supplies a cheapo one for 200bucks. What is the massive investment? I have cables.

I forgot that a live sound mixer will EQ to the room...
You answered your own question, when I'm doing a gig using a £25k mixing desk and a £100k PA I'm not letting somebody put a £200 split in my signal path. If a band want their gig multitracked then they have to pay for the extra equipment required or do it in such a manner that it has no effect on my signal path. Generally if a band just want a recording to 2tr I use an aux to blend the board mix with a pair of mics at front of stage and a pair in front of the desk, usually gives a pretty reasonable representation of the gig.

In reality if the PA has been well set up and eq'd then the ambients fill in where the board mix lacks.

If you are going down the split route you will need to contact the FOH engineer in advance and ok any equipment you want to insert into their rig and check if they are happy to allow you to do it. Personally unless the person brings quality splits and exhibits an extensive knowledge and expertise I wouldn't allow them to jeopardise my gig.

Cheers

Chris
Old 22nd December 2010
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouderThanLondon View Post
If you are going down the split route you will need to contact the FOH engineer in advance and ok any equipment you want to insert into their rig and check if they are happy to allow you to do it. Personally unless the person brings quality splits and exhibits an extensive knowledge and expertise I wouldn't allow them to jeopardise my gig.
Bit anal that reply really.

That splitter costs about £800 and not £200. There is no way on earth that a mic splitter would effect "YOUR" signal path. The this is their whole purpose. You would connect from the ISOLATED outputs which use good quality audio transformers in the chain and therefore it would be impossible for any signals, noise etc to get to your FOH signal chain from the splitter.

I use one all the time (albeit a good quality one) for large shows that have 40+ splits and I have done live recording for some quite large acts across the UK and have NEVER had a complaint from any FOH about my gear interactiing in anyway with theirs.

Cheers
Old 22nd December 2010
  #16
As Jay said above: "Board mixes are mixed for the room... not for recording. They always suck".

That is absolutely correct. Live sound and recording studios are two totally different worlds. Especially in the smaller clubs, you're mixing stage volume with the PA as reinforcement. All sound sources are blending at different percentages. Of course the board mix is going to reflect this (100% vocals against... maybe 20% guitars & say... 0% snare drum).

Short answer: You need a Split Snake (takes a feed of everything pre-console) and they're pretty expensive.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #17
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs View Post
.

Being competent IS the MOST important thing. .
+1 Agreed!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs View Post
.
Board mixes are mixed for the room... not for recording. They always suck.
.
Yes they are mixed for the room. They don't always suck, some of us in live world are actually real professionals and can make mixes translate more than passably well to a recording. There are techniques and years of experience involved, just like the studio. No offense Jay, but I get tired of hearing sweeping generalizations about how bad board mixes are, especially from people that spend all their time in "controlled environments". There are some live guys out there like the Kevin Elsons of the world that actually do both live and studio quite well. Clearmountain has even been known to take an incredibly competent whack at live mixing now and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs View Post
.
Best thing to do is take the board mix to 2-tracks and hang a pair of mics... or multiple pairs of mics and blend it later.

Or if you're really daring, blend those four source signals right to 2-track.
.
Agreed. I've actually had a house rig with a record matrix that blended the 2 mix with a VP-88 hung directly above the FOH mix position. It was sent in real time to DAT/CD recorders, and the console took the discreet M/S feeds and did that proper blend/encode as well. The 2 mix was also properly delayed to the mic (Thank god for large format digital desks!). We also used it to feed the TV record, and corporate records as well. Did many live broadcast shows that way. It really helped to have a console with 120 inputs and 64 outputs, all software mult-able, assignable, and totally recallable. Very nice recordings came from that setup.

This setup in a large theater may be the exception, not the rule, but you should watch how you throw around the word "always"!
Old 22nd December 2010
  #18
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it's quite simple.
You are not part of the live crew. They won't allow you to affect their signal paths.
You need a THOROUGH understanding of live-sound to be considered are viable partner of the live-crew. Don't just come with your splitter. They will hate you.

On a pro plive-production, you have to:

1.: Get permission of the band and their management (you seem to have it)
2.: Get in touch with the production manager IN ADVANCE and let him/her know what you want to do and ask how he/she would think it would be possible without getting in the way of the live-crew.
3.: If the production manager is positive, ask for contact infos to the PA-tech, and the monitor-tech and the FOH-mixer. Tell them what you want to do, that the production manager is informed, and ask them if it's OK what you want to do.
4.: If they use analogue system and have seperate monitor and FOH cities, then chances are big you can use the 3rd lines on the already existing splitter. Make sure you have ALL phantom power disabled!
5.: If they use digitally interconnected systems, don't do it if you do not have a thorough understanding of the system used (MADI, optocore, whatever)
6.: If they do monitor from the FOH-desk, ask if there are free pre-fader direct outs on the desk. On desks like H3000 they even have a seperate trim.
Come when the FOH is built, not later! Kindly ask the FOH-guy if you now can plug your stuff in. If recording from the direct outs of a H3000, the trim @ 12o'clock is a good starting point and will give you enough headroom even if the mixer runs the desk fairly hot.

7.: If you want to have your own mics, ask the production manager, the stage manager, the monitor guy, the micing-guy and, most importantly, the backliners if it's OK.

Bigger live productions are much about politics, who to ask, how to behave and so on.
I'm a pro backliner, and if you were setting up mics on my stage without me being informed in advance, I'd certainly throw you off the stage without asking further questions.

I recorded many really big acts via the direct outs of a H3000. It's perfectly OK. Of course you want to record your own room mics and the ambiance-mics of the monitor-guy if the band uses IEM.
I once used the SPL Atmos 5.1-system directly @FOH city. Incredible!!

Ah, and NEVER enter the nightliner before having asked every single person in the travel-party.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
it's quite simple.
You are not part of the live crew. They won't allow you to affect their signal paths.
You need a THOROUGH understanding of live-sound to be considered are viable partner of the live-crew. Don't just come with your splitter. They will hate you.

On a pro plive-production, you have to:

1.: Get permission of the band and their management (you seem to have it)
2.: Get in touch with the production manager IN ADVANCE and let him/her know what you want to do and ask how he/she would think it would be possible without getting in the way of the live-crew.
3.: If the production manager is positive, ask for contact infos to the PA-tech, and the monitor-tech and the FOH-mixer. Tell them what you want to do, that the production manager is informed, and ask them if it's OK what you want.
4.: If they use analogue system and have seperate monitor and FOH cities, then chances are big you can use the 3rd lines on the already existing splitter. Make sure you have ALL phantom powers disabled!
5.: If they use digital interconnected systems, don't do it if you do not have a thorough understanding of the system used (MADI, optocore, whatever)
6.: If they do monitor from the FOH-desk, ask if there are free pre-fader direct outs on the desk. On desks like H3000 they even have a seperate trim.
Come when the FOH is built, not later! Kindly ask the FOH-guy if you now can plug your stuff in. If recording from the direct outs of a H3000, the trim @ 12o'clock is a good starting point and will give you enough headroom even if the mixer runs the desk fairly hot.

7.: If you want to have your own mics, ask the production manager, the stage manager, the monitor guy, the NF-guy and, most importantly, the backliners if it's OK.

Bigger live productions are much about politics, who to ask, how to behave and so on.
I'm a pro backliner, and if you were setting up mics on my stage without me being informed in advance, I'd certainly throw you off the stage without asking further questions.

I recorded many really big acts via the direct outs of a H3000. It's perfectly OK. Of course you want to record your own room mics and the ambiance-mics of the monitor-guy if the band uses IEM.
I once used the SPL Atmos 5.1-system directly @FOH city. Incredible!!

Ah, and NEVER enter the nightliner before having asked every single person in the travel-party.
+1, spot on, excellent post! You have obviously done this before from the Pro/Big-Time live side! Cheers
Old 22nd December 2010
  #20
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I'll give you a real-world scenario of where not having splitters was a disaster! I do a lot of live location concert production and recording. I had on my rider that I needed 48-channels of splitter and (2) Alesis HD24 recorders. They didn't want to pay the cost of the splitters and all of the cables, I nearly pulled out---but they offered me the same pay. I agreed, but told them that the results would not be the same. FYI the console was an Allen & Heath GL4400 I believe, it's a good board with plenty of busses and direct outs---that is, until you need to record and there is someone else at FOH who is not easy to work with, because HIS focus is FOH and Monitors, NOT recording.

As it turned out there were 24-Aviom feeds which were using pretty much most of the busses and many direct outputs. Why not the inserts? Well that's because the system was pre-wired with a lot of outboard gear, trying to now insert the Aviom's into that would have been a royal pain in the butt. SO, I was taking a feed to the HD24 after the Aviom boxes. The Drums were TOO DANG LOUD and clipping like crazy. They were also over-compressed, it turned out this console was configured to send the direct outputs POST fader. The gain was also not what I wanted it to be on the snare and kick, way too much bleed. So I had to drive home and pickup my own selection of microphones, micpres, a new 150ft snake, cables, stands, etc.... just to get a good sound on the drums and bypass the console.

This wasn't the worst part! I specifically stated we needed (6) SDC microphones (Neumann KM184's), they gave me (4) Shure KSM27's instead. Okay, that's a good mic--but it's not a KM184 and it's NOT a SDC condenser. Apparently the FOH mixer went with the Shure's because it gave him more pickup with less mics---yeah, but when you are recording it picks up TOO MUCH ambience. I had to argue with him it's not the same as what is in the house, that what he hear's in the house is a lot of the live sound mixed in. I lost that argument. Well, it got worse...it turns out that all (4) of those microphones were on the STEREO CHANNELS---meaning there is a single XLR input or (2) line inputs. Well those stereo channels do NOT have direct outputs on them. SO, this was the most important part to record and all of the busses were already used up. I had to go to the director to get the FOH engineer to re-route the console so that the choir mics would be moved. What replaced those channels, we moved the 4-piece brass section there....however I had to take a MONO bus to record them which meant his mix was my mix now.

After listening to the choir mics, I couldn't deal with it---so I had to run out and get the mics I wanted in the first place. NOW we had (10) microphones on the choir---this was for live TV, my mix was the live mix and recording. It looked bad....of course, this meant I needed to get more micpres from home, pickup even more cables and stands, etc.

At the end of the event---I didn't make money, I lost a great deal of time and energy, and I was incredibly frustrated.

So---don't rely on the FOH console or the FOH engineer, you might just make it a nightmare of an evening. If you have a FOH engineer that is easy to work with, you'll be fine---just explain what you need to do and why. BUT if you are working with someone like I worked with, prepare to do battle ALL night long.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound View Post
+1, spot on, excellent post! You have obviously done this before from the Pro/Big-Time live side! Cheers
Thanks!
Well, I'm one of the guys you posted about. I'm at home both in front of my SSL as on the sidewings of huge festival stages. I'm working as backliner for big german acts, so if you're touring Europe during the festival summer, chaces are big we've worked on the same stage.
Did you?

I also did quite a lot of live-recording - and FOH-mixing experinece.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLyons View Post
I'll give you a real-world scenario of where not having splitters was a disaster! (...)
Sorry Brad, but IMO this is a perfect example of not enough communication with the live-crew in advance. You should have known how the FOH was set up way before the gig.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
Thanks!
Well, I'm one of the guys you posted about. I'm at home both in front of my SSL as on the sidewings of huge festival stages. I'm working as backliner for big german acts, so if you're touring Europe during the festival summer, chaces are big we've worked on the same stage.
Did you?

I also did quite a lot of live-recording - and FOH-mixing experinece.
I actually retired from world touring in 1992, was in Europe many times. Did a lot of extended touring and festival stops in Germany. Worked with some great European sound companies including Ampco, Brittania Row, SSE, Electrotec, and of course, Rocksound in Germany.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
Sorry Brad, but IMO this is a perfect example of not enough communication with the live-crew in advance. You should have known how the FOH was set up way before the gig.
Typically, YES! However things were changing---what I was told would be there, wasn't. It turns out the Production Manager wasn't doing their job, gave me the wrong information several times, I was not even informed this was going to live TV until the night before. The FOH engineer was a total JERK to deal with---When I first introduced myself his response was "Who the F are you and what the F do you want". I let him know I was the Recording Engineer--his response was "Stay the F out of my way and I'll leave you the F alone". GREAT! heh

So, I know what you're saying---I've done many events that were perfectly fine. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work out that way when you're dealing with other people.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobywan View Post
Bit anal that reply really.
Perhaps, but it's the correct response from a professional with a job to do, not a hobbyist who wants something to trade with his taper buddies.

Quote:
That splitter costs about £800 and not £200.
whooppee

Quote:
There is no way on earth that a mic splitter would effect "YOUR" signal path.
Wrong. The broken one will affect "my" signal path. The one w/o proper isolation will affect my signal path if your gear is grounded improperly.

Quote:
The this is their whole purpose. You would connect from the ISOLATED outputs which use good quality audio transformers in the chain and therefore it would be impossible for any signals, noise etc to get to your FOH signal chain from the splitter.
Not all splitters are isolated. I'd be much more wary of a splitter brought by a guy who, 2 weeks ago, was asking "how do I record my buddy's band" than I would of a splitter brought by a guy who rolled up in a fully-tricked out remote production semi.

Quote:
I use one all the time (albeit a good quality one) for large shows that have 40+ splits and I have done live recording for some quite large acts across the UK and have NEVER had a complaint from any FOH about my gear interactiing in anyway with theirs.
Then it sounds like you're a pro who shows up with good, well-maintained gear.

-Dan.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #26
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Tappin off the Live Sound guy?

If I sounded anal I'm sorry,

When I'm brought in to mix FOH for a band or provide a system for a concert or tour I have to be absolutely confident in all the components of the system, if I let someone I don't know insert a piece of kit that's history is unknown to me and it fails and causes the show to either stop or be less than perfect then my reputation and business will be seriously damaged. Explaining it was someone else that caused the failure will result in nothing more than the client asking why I let someone else get involved.

The majority of the time the analog multicores I'm using have isolated recording splits which I'm happy to let someone take a feed from.

I split my time almost evenly between studio and live so I appreciate someone doing a live recording wants the best possible raw audio to mix later so if decent communication has been made prior to the gig I'll go out of my way to help.

Cheers.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #27
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Yes get spliters, a live sound recorded will always suck unless you can remix it, you think the vocalist can keep up with a guitar amp ? nada, right there the vocals are gonna be way loud in the mix, same goes for the drums sometimes.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLyons View Post
When I first introduced myself his response was "Who the F are you and what the F do you want". I let him know I was the Recording Engineer--his response was "Stay the F out of my way and I'll leave you the F alone".
Ah .. That Guy. There are guys like him across the US, The UK, Australia and Europe. Both System Engineers and Monitor and FOH Engineers. And Yes, we ALL have bad gigs where things just don't go as planned.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjew24 View Post

My question is.... How would I go about taking a split off the FOH board? ... Is it a common practice for bands to bring in their "guy" who dabbles in the live sound crew's stuff?

what do you guys think??
First, you don't want to interface with the FOH at all in a local band situation. Stay as far away from their junk as you can.

That requires a mic splitter with ground lifts. Assuming that you are using transformer splits, the quality of your recording will be related to the quality of the transformers used to make the splits. Which is why you can buy transformers from Mouser for $4 each, or from Jensen for $80 each.

And you'll need a mixer

You will also find that the FOH may not have enough mics, and will choose not to mic some things. You may have to augment their compliment.

It also helps to capture a handful of crowd mics. One will not do, you always get the one guy who yells, "Play Freebird!" close to it, and he is then in the entire recording.

Your best bet is to be as self-contained as possible, have all your own extension cords, mic cables, etc.

You need to communicate directly with the sound company IN ADVANCE. They need to know that you are coming and what you plan to do and they have to be on board with it. remember, nobody is paying them any extra to accommodate you. They are not looking for any extra work or hassle.

If you are really smart you'll find another time when the sound crew is working the same venue, show up, introduce yourself, and hang out out of the way until it looks as though they have time to talk, then talk with the crew and get to know them. You don't have to talk about what you want to do, talk about what they are doing... in a complimentary way. Give them a chance to get to know you as a guy rather than as an unwelcome intrusion. Then when your gig rolls around, life will be a lot easier.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Ultimate Solution:

1) Hire Avid Profile
2) Take to gig
3) Plug analogue console connections into Stage Rack

Results:
1) FOH Man has a really fun night putting all you fancy plugs on his mix.
2) You get direct interfacing with Pro Tools
3) Everyone wins

Only costs about $500/night
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